Recruiting forum off topic thread (no politics, covid, or hot button issues)

[#1GatorHater]

Well, for starters, you said you didn't know who Paul was. Considering he wrote a large portion of the New Testament, it seems like you might at least know one of the main co-authors of the book of faith of the people you are telling to be more compassionate too.

I was joking.

 

[#1GatorHater]

Also, I real appreciate the conversation. Talking about these things helps grow my faith and curiosity about my faith and my God. I don't have the answers. I don't believe any other human does either. But the more we talk about it, the closer we get to God.

 

[Jackcrevol]

What if the person isn't either? Or identifies as a woman? Does it address that? Or are you filling in the blanks? If it is not specifically addressed, then it is an interpretation by man. And man is completely fallable.

Are you using the hard line approach to ultimately prove a point? Showers of hell fire and brimstone abound.

To answer your question specifically, yes I guess it is open to interpretation. Yes i'm aware of not leaning into own understanding. I also believe that God gives us humans free will to decide. Ultimately we can only do what we can do. I'm not Mother Theresa after all.

I do believe in Science and I do believe that the two can co exist. After all why would a loving God, who gave us grace, (among a brain), not allow us to use the frontal lobe?

 

[Glitch]

You can bring your religion wherever you want. The government needs to be devoid of religious underpinnings when they make decisions that impact millions of non-Christian citizens. There is probably just as much disagreement within the Christian about the teachings as there is outside of it about religion in general.
You shouldn't make laws based upon your religious preferences. The government should not legislate morality. Especially with the low moral capacity and corruption of politics at all levels regardless of religious affiliation.

So I can bring my religion anywhere I want, except to my government? So, do I have the 1A right to the "free exercise" of my religion, or do I not. If I do, then I should be able to exercise my religion everywhere and should not have to check it at the door should I be elected to a political office. If I do not, then the Constitution is meaningless and the last 245 years have been in vain.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

My final source is my love for God.
My Bible interpretation is flawed because I am flawed, just like you.
A broken glass can't possibly hold water without spilling it.
By taking your interpretation as the only one, you are seeing your Ego.
You interpret what you might think the Buble might mean in relation to modern issues. Do you not see where your own fallacy and sin corrupts your interpretation? Or are you beyond reproach?

Name the interpretation? Which interpretation? You haven't pointed to any interpretation of a text and said that I can't possibly know the meaning. This is a broad statement which is untrue. I notice that you did not address the specific texts I mentioned. I believe in the perspicuity of scripture, and if your final authority is your love for God, then I can understand why you have this flawed view, because your love for God is flawed and weak, as mine is.

If our final authority is not scripture, then we have no place to stand. And now the positions that you have taken in this discussion make a lot more sense. If Scripture is not your final authority, then I understand why you are arguing the impossibility of interpretation idea. The idea that God gave us His word and then sits back and laughs because we can't understand it is one that I outright reject. With that, I'll end the discussion as there's nothing further to discuss at this point.

 

[Jackcrevol]

Also, I real appreciate the conversation. Talking about these things helps grow my faith and curiosity about my faith and my God. I don't have the answers. I don't believe any other human does either. But the more we talk about it, the closer we get to God.

I rely on Shaman only

 

[Jackcrevol]

My position is that God gave gave and gives us instructions, signs, miracles, corrections, and a bunch more constantly.
My position is that even if God spoke directly to a man, that man is inherently sinful and fallable and could not possibly convey the information without corrupting ti through his own biases and sinful midn/heart.

Could be wrong but I believe the Bible says Moses was the last human to experience perfection, in the desert.

Perhaps Elijah came the closest.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

Paraphrasing...

Man shall not lay with man...

If he lay with beast, surely he will be put to death...

man shall lay with his wife as one flesh.

I do not know for certain as I didnt research the specific books but this seems like Old Testament verbiage.

I believe in the Son of Man, who, loves everyone, everyone more than himself. So much so that He died for our sins. We are to love others as he loves us. That's pretty much it.

Yes, those are in the Old Testament, these are in the new:

"Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error." Romans 1:24-27

So is this one 1st Corinthians 6:9-11 which says "Homosexuals.... will not inherit the kingdom of God."

Also, in the same context of the OT passage you quote, we also find the original command that we are to love our neighbor as ourselves (Lev. 19:18). So if we throw out the OT commands about homosexual behavior, do we also throw out the command about loving our neighbor as ourselves?

What does it mean to love others? Does it mean to lie to them and call evil, good and pretend as though they are right with God? Or is it more loving to tell them that sinful behavior will result in the judgment of God and therefore, if they would escape that judgment, they must repent and believe in Christ who died in order to save them from their sin? Which is more loving?

 

[Glitch]

I rely on Shaman only

The Great and Powerful Zollicoffer!

 

[Jackcrevol]

The Great and Powerful Zollicoffer!

The Great Zollicofer

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

Could be wrong but I believe the Bible says Moses was the last human to experience perfection, in the desert.

Perhaps Elijah came the closest.

Moses was a sinner which is why he was forbidden from entering the promised land. As was Elijah (1 Kings 19). As was ever other man (Romans 3:23) except Christ. Christ was sinless and perfect. But man being fallible does not mean that he is incapable of interpreting Scripture, or else 1. why would God give it to us? 2. Why did Jesus hold people accountable for their faith in the Old Testament in Matthew 5:18-20 and Luke 24:25-27? Why does Paul tell Timothy and Titus around 25 times that they are to guard doctrine and the truth? If man cannot understand it, what is he talking about?

How can he say that "All scripture is inspired by God and PROFITABLE for teaching, for rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness that the man of God may be ADEQUATE AND EQUIPPED for every good work" (2nd Tim. 3:16-17) if we cannot understand Scripture? How is scripture profitable, how can it equip us for every good work if it's impossible for us to truly interpret it because we are fallible?

How do we obey his command to "preach the word" in 2nd Timothy 4:2? Surely preaching the word is impossible if we cannot understand it.

 

[Glitch]

Could be wrong but I believe the Bible says Moses was the last human to experience perfection, in the desert.

Perhaps Elijah came the closest.

Are you talking about his experience where God brushed past him on the mountain and he nearly died? Or are you talking just Moses himself. Moses was so far from perfect it isn't even funny. That is a theme throughout the Bible though. God uses incredibly flawed individuals as his representatives to do amazing things. That is because it is not the people doing it, but rather God himself. We are broken sinful fallen creatures but through our relationship with God we are redeemed and grow to be better people. We will never reach perfection though. That is what makes Christ's sacrifice for us so incredible is that He was perfect and his sacrifice was the ultimate payment of our sin debt.

Not meaning this at you in particular.

 

[Orangeburst]

Striken..because stoopid

 

[Jackcrevol]

Are you talking about his experience where God brushed past him on the mountain and he nearly died? Or are you talking just Moses himself. Moses was so far from perfect it isn't even funny. That is a theme throughout the Bible though. God uses incredibly flawed individuals as his representatives to do amazing things. That is because it is not the people doing it, but rather God himself. We are broken sinful fallen creatures but through our relationship with God we are redeemed and grow to be better people. We will never reach perfection though. That is what makes Christ's sacrifice for us so incredible is that He was perfect and his sacrifice was the ultimate payment of our sin debt.

Not meaning this at you in particular.

Talking about when Moses pitched a tent, in the desert Moran. I believe it is where term Tabernacle was derived.

I recall he either met face to face with God or he was so full of Spirit that a glow came from the tent. No one else was allowed or could come close to the tent.

Fyi it's been about 8 years since I read the Bible. That's been three kids ago.

 

[#1GatorHater]

I rely on Shaman only

What about shawoman

 

[#1GatorHater]

Yes, those are in the Old Testament, these are in the new:

"Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error." Romans 1:24-27

So is this one 1st Corinthians 6:9-11 which says "Homosexuals.... will not inherit the kingdom of God."

Also, in the same context of the OT passage you quote, we also find the original command that we are to love our neighbor as ourselves (Lev. 19:18). So if we throw out the OT commands about homosexual behavior, do we also throw out the command about loving our neighbor as ourselves?

What does it mean to love others? Does it mean to lie to them and call evil, good and pretend as though they are right with God? Or is it more loving to tell them that sinful behavior will result in the judgment of God and therefore, if they would escape that judgment, they must repent and believe in Christ who died in order to save them from their sin? Which is more loving?

In order to know if they are sinning, outside of what is actually written, you have to interpret through your fallable ego what is a sin.
The Bible tells us what is a sin. A man or woman reading between the lines and extrapolating or inferring do not.

 

[Glitch]

Talking about when Moses pitched a tent, in the desert Moran. I believe it is where term Tabernacle was derived.

I recall he either met face to face with God or he was so full of Spirit that a glow came from the tent. No one else was allowed or could come close to the tent.

Fyi it's been about 8 years since I read the Bible. That's been three kids ago.

Moses ascended the mountain and communed with God. He received the commandments, instructions for the ark of the covenant, instructions for the tabernacle, and over all instructions for the Hebrew people. Aka... The Law. They built the Ark and Tabernacle so that God could dwell with his chosen people. The Law listed out how they should live and appropriate sacrifices when they inevitably fell short. Jesus lived a perfect life under the law and was never required to make atonement for sin because he never sinned. The sacrifice of the only person to ever meet that standard is the basis for Christian faith. Jesus taught to love the Lord your God with all your heart and to love your neighbor as yourself. That is what true Christians should try to do. We will again inevitably fall short but we should strive for that.

 

[#1GatorHater]

Moses was a sinner which is why he was forbidden from entering the promised land. As was Elijah (1 Kings 19). As was ever other man (Romans 3:23) except Christ. Christ was sinless and perfect. But man being fallible does not mean that he is incapable of interpreting Scripture, or else 1. why would God give it to us? 2. Why did Jesus hold people accountable for their faith in the Old Testament in Matthew 5:18-20 and Luke 24:25-27? Why does Paul tell Timothy and Titus around 25 times that they are to guard doctrine and the truth? If man cannot understand it, what is he talking about?

How can he say that "All scripture is inspired by God and PROFITABLE for teaching, for rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness that the man of God may be ADEQUATE AND EQUIPPED for every good work" (2nd Tim. 3:16-17) if we cannot understand Scripture? How is scripture profitable, how can it equip us for every good work if it's impossible for us to truly interpret it because we are fallible?

How do we obey his command to "preach the word" in 2nd Timothy 4:2? Surely preaching the word is impossible if we cannot understand it.

So I can read the Bible, go to Bible study, and come up with different interpretations of scripture.
Which of us is correct? Or either?
It doesn't matter the specific scripture or which version of the Bible, most people interpret it differently.
I don't interpret it as it's my place to tell others how to live. You feel like you have that power. That's the main difference in where we are coming from right now. You are entrenched so deeply in faith of yourself, that you don't give yourself room to be wrong. And if you don't have room to be wrong and you are right all of the time about your interpretation, how do you create a greater understanding of the Lord through further study? If you have all the right answers, how do you deepen you're faith by questioning further what you believe so that God can grow your love and appreciation for the Trinity?

 

[#1GatorHater]

Moses was a sinner which is why he was forbidden from entering the promised land. As was Elijah (1 Kings 19). As was ever other man (Romans 3:23) except Christ. Christ was sinless and perfect. But man being fallible does not mean that he is incapable of interpreting Scripture, or else 1. why would God give it to us? 2. Why did Jesus hold people accountable for their faith in the Old Testament in Matthew 5:18-20 and Luke 24:25-27? Why does Paul tell Timothy and Titus around 25 times that they are to guard doctrine and the truth? If man cannot understand it, what is he talking about?

How can he say that "All scripture is inspired by God and PROFITABLE for teaching, for rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness that the man of God may be ADEQUATE AND EQUIPPED for every good work" (2nd Tim. 3:16-17) if we cannot understand Scripture? How is scripture profitable, how can it equip us for every good work if it's impossible for us to truly interpret it because we are fallible?

How do we obey his command to "preach the word" in 2nd Timothy 4:2? Surely preaching the word is impossible if we cannot understand it.

Preaching the Word is repeating what the Greatest has said. Not using your preferences to interpret it and read between the lines through inference and the such. If the Word is infallible, and you are fallable,who are you to interpret it?

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

In order to know if they are sinning, outside of what is actually written, you have to interpret through your fallable ego what is a sin.
The Bible tells us what is a sin. A man or woman reading between the lines and extrapolating or inferring do not.

Which sin are we discussing here that I'm supposedly interpreting through my ego? Are you judging me? I thought that was a sin?

The verses I quoted speak of homosexual behavior as sinful explicitly. There is no reading between the lines. Or do you argue that it is impossible to know what those words mean?

if you're talking about trans behavior, again, the Bible does not discuss transgenderism specifically, but it does discuss gender. Christ said in Matthew 19 that God created them MALE and FEMALE. In the creative order, there are men and women. There are no other genders. There is no understanding of gender being something different than sex in the Scripture.

Further, the Bible defines gender roles in 1st Cor. 11, Ephesians 5, Colossians 3, 1st Peter 3, and other places. the Bible commands men to act like men and women to act like women. So while the Bible knows nothing of surgery, it clearly speaks to gender and to roles of men and women. Therefore, to violate those roles goes against what Scripture teaches. And what is it when we go against what scripture teaches? Sin.

Further, transgenderism is usually associated with homosexual behavior, men with men, women with women. As the above texts I quoted make clear, homosexuality is sinful. If you deny it, the problem is not in interpretation, the problem is with acceptance, and you show again that scripture is not your final authority, and in fact, it isn't even your love for God, for if it were your love for God, you would believe and obey what He has said. So it must be something else, and in tis case, it would be the influence of culture.

 

[#1GatorHater]

Are you talking about his experience where God brushed past him on the mountain and he nearly died? Or are you talking just Moses himself. Moses was so far from perfect it isn't even funny. That is a theme throughout the Bible though. God uses incredibly flawed individuals as his representatives to do amazing things. That is because it is not the people doing it, but rather God himself. We are broken sinful fallen creatures but through our relationship with God we are redeemed and grow to be better people. We will never reach perfection though. That is what makes Christ's sacrifice for us so incredible is that He was perfect and his sacrifice was the ultimate payment of our sin debt.

Not meaning this at you in particular.

Yes!

 

[#1GatorHater]

Moses ascended the mountain and communed with God. He received the commandments, instructions for the ark of the covenant, instructions for the tabernacle, and over all instructions for the Hebrew people. Aka... The Law. They built the Ark and Tabernacle so that God could dwell with his chosen people. The Law listed out how they should live and appropriate sacrifices when they inevitably fell short. Jesus lived a perfect life under the law and was never required to make atonement for sin because he never sinned. The sacrifice of the only person to ever meet that standard is the basis for Christian faith. Jesus taught to love the Lord your God with all your heart and to love your neighbor as yourself. That is what true Christians should try to do. We will again inevitably fall short but we should strive for that.

Yes!

 

[Jackcrevol]

What about shawoman

her too

 

[UTMVol76]

So I can read the Bible, go to Bible study, and come up with different interpretations of scripture.
Which of us is correct? Or either?
It doesn't matter the specific scripture or which version of the Bible, most people interpret it differently.
I don't interpret it as it's my place to tell others how to live. You feel like you have that power. That's the main difference in where we are coming from right now. You are entrenched so deeply in faith of yourself, that you don't give yourself room to be wrong. And if you don't have room to be wrong and you are right all of the time about your interpretation, how do you create a greater understanding of the Lord through further study? If you have all the right answers, how do you deepen you're faith by questioning further what you believe so that God can grow your love and appreciation for the Trinity?

What your describing would be akin to moral relativism. Just because you interpret something your way, doesn’t mean it’s correct. Many a cult has built on that basis.

One important tool the Bible gives us to help with that is the mandate of 2-3 witnesses. Therefore if you interpret something a certain way, you should be able to find witnesses in the Bible to substantiate it. That is one reason I rarely use one Scripture to support an idea.

 

[#1GatorHater]

Which sin are we discussing here that I'm supposedly interpreting through my ego? Are you judging me? I thought that was a sin?

The verses I quoted speak of homosexual behavior as sinful explicitly. There is no reading between the lines. Or do you argue that it is impossible to know what those words mean?

if you're talking about trans behavior, again, the Bible does not discuss transgenderism specifically, but it does discuss gender. Christ said in Matthew 19 that God created them MALE and FEMALE. In the creative order, there are men and women. There are no other genders. There is no understanding of gender being something different than sex in the Scripture.

Further, the Bible defines gender roles in 1st Cor. 11, Ephesians 5, Colossians 3, 1st Peter 3, and other places. the Bible commands men to act like men and women to act like women. So while the Bible knows nothing of surgery, it clearly speaks to gender and to roles of men and women. Therefore, to violate those roles goes against what Scripture teaches. And what is it when we go against what scripture teaches? Sin.

Further, transgenderism is usually associated with homosexual behavior, men with men, women with women. As the above texts I quoted make clear, homosexuality is sinful. If you deny it, the problem is not in interpretation, the problem is with acceptance, and you show again that scripture is not your final authority, and in fact, it isn't even your love for God, for if it were your love for God, you would believe and obey what He has said. So it must be something else, and in tis case, it would be the influence of culture.

I am not judging. I am interpreting your action. I am not calling it a sin.
Saying you are sinful and fallible is a fact, not an opinion or judgement.