Would 6-6 be an improvement?

[Berry4Heisman14]

That is simply an untrue statement.

Please elaborate. Our roster this upcoming season is worse than last. Our best player just transferred to Alabama. We lost our starting LT to transfer, lost our starting RB to transfer. Yeah I know JG is gone, but our defense will more than likely be even worse. And add in a first year coach who got worse each season where he came from. I hope I’m wrong but all this combined with our lack of depth spells doom. Even if JH is the guy it’s gonna take some time

 

[tennesseeduke]

I’m not sure it would be.

I know that 6 wins is more than 3 wins, but let’s dive into this more.

If last year’s team had played their original schedule, they would have been 6-6. So with that, 6 wins this season with 4 MAJOR cupcakes doesn’t seem like an improvement.

Let’s look at the changes from last year to this year and see where the advantage goes:

1. Despite posters saying that HT and EG suck, we lost a lot of talent from last year’s roster. Advantage 2020.
2. But, this year’s team had a full Spring and should have a full Fall camp before the season begins. Huge Advantage 2021.
3. More than likely we will have a DLine coach for the whole season. And his name is Rodney Gardener. Advantage 2021.
4. We will have a different qb than JG and Chaney was not the Chaney of years ago. Heupel has a much better scheme. Advantage 2021.
5. This year’s D is a step down from last year’s D, and they kinda sucked. Advantage 2020.

So, overall I have 2021 with a 3-2 advantage over 2020. I think JG and Pruitt could go 6-6 with this team and schedule. I think Heupel could win 7 or 8 if he is gonna be the man to lead us out of this valley. 6-6 means we’re roughly at the same spot that we’ve been the last few coaches. 4 or 5 wins means we’ve regressed.

The good news is I think Heupel gets us to 7 or 8 wins this season, and could possibly luck into 9. I think Uf or Uga could be a magical upset too.

Last time I checked anything higher than 3 would be improvement.

 

[sjt18]

not saying we will suck. But how can anyone predict 8 or 9 wins with so much newness within the program?

OK... how can someone predict 4 or 5 wins with so much newness within the program?

Brand new staff with a totally different system than these kids have been exposed to..

And there's a dividing line. Some assume that is a bad thing even after watching the last 3 years... and some see it as a possible good thing.

Staff is trying to learn what these players can do..

Players are trying to understand the expectations of these coaches while learning a new system.

There is not a single player on this roster that has performed close to an all conference type player. Now they are expected to improve and be better after 15 days of practice?

In a word.. yes. That's a coach's job. It is also a matter of how much you believe the previous underperformance was a function of coaching and schemes.

Depth is going to be a major issue on both sides of the ball.

What position group on the offensive side has obvious depth issues as we sit here today? They don't have a ton of experience but they have talented bodies.

The DL has depth. Not sure about the quality. But there is depth. There's reasonably good depth at S though CB could be a problem. The edge rushers have little experience but look very talented. LB is an issue that will have to be coached around.

Just need to wait until late August to see what they can do. Getting 6 wins would be a huge improvement over last year and mean they DID NOT SUCK. Just learning their way.

Would losing to UK who just lost their 10 best players by far such? Would losing to a middling or worse ACC team like Pitt suck? USCe has as many or more issues than UT... would it suck to lose to them too? Mizzou... what exactly do they have or have they done that makes expecting a loss to them "likely"?

Heupel does not inherit a championship caliber roster. He does inherit a roster capable of winning some games if well coached. There are four games that should be wins without question. There are 5 more that prove Heupel's ability as a HC. You are and others are saying that winning 2 of 5 would be "great". I disagree.

BTW, I don't let my emotions get off kilter. Win or lose, I just handle without overly joyful or depressed. Getting disappointed over something you have no control over is "no way to live", IMO[/QUOTE] Seems you are choosing "depressed".

 

[BeardedVol]

Last time I checked anything higher than 3 would be improvement.

Ah yes, the old "OOC games are the same as conference games mentality"; can't say that I missed it last season when we played 10 SEC games.

 

[Berry4Heisman14]

Ah yes, the old "OOC games are the same as conference games mentality"; can't say that I missed it last season when we played 10 SEC games.

you’d think they would learn after all we’ve been through for a decade. We lose numerous good players some of our best and somehow we will be better than we were last year with a coach who regressed at his previous stop

 

[sjt18]

Please elaborate. Our roster this upcoming season is worse than last.

Even if that were true and I am not conceding that it is... that still doesn't make 6 wins amazing or the roster a 4 win roster. UT had a 7 or 8 win roster last year and won 3 because of really bad coaching and QB play.

Our best player just transferred to Alabama. We lost our starting LT to transfer, lost our starting RB to transfer.

Every year... every CFB team loses good players. UK just lost their 10 best... but that's apparently an automatic loss in your opinion. UT has speed at WR. They have some good looking RB's. You are lamenting the loss of an OL that chronically underperformed on the whole and a specific player that never played like a 5* or even close.

You just choose to focus solely on the negative and absolutely refuse to consider anything positive. UT has a lot of talent. Not a lot of experience. But some talented guys.

Yeah I know JG is gone, but our defense will more than likely be even worse.

It could be. I'm not denying that possibility. But unlike you... I'm not drawing that conclusion NOW.

And add in a first year coach who got worse each season where he came from.

That's just plain dumb... It really is. To pull that completely out of context JUST to have something else to be negative over... holds no water.

I hope I’m wrong

Are you really? As consistently as you post it... and as often as you ignore possible good things... you really don't show any sign of hoping you are wrong.

but all this combined with our lack of depth spells doom. Even if JH is the guy it’s gonna take some time

Lack of depth compared to who? Bama and UGA... or USCe and UK?

 

[Rocky Top T]

YES!!! It would be the most wins for a first yr coach since Kiffen.

 

[sjt18]

you’d think they would learn after all we’ve been through for a decade. We lose numerous good players some of our best and somehow we will be better than we were last year with a coach who regressed at his previous stop

There will come a day when UT will hire a coach who knows how to get more out of a roster than the sum of its parts instead of less. Dooley didn't do that. Jones nor Pruitt did that. You are assuming that Heupel won't do that. Some of us are holding on to that hope and expectation.

 

[sjt18]

YES!!! It would be the most wins for a first yr coach since Kiffen.

Kiffin would have won 8 or 9 games with this team against this schedule.

 

[hog88]

It's easy to agree about the 5 wins.

Even you don't really expect the other wins you say you expect if we "eek them out."

As someone has pointed out, this is how expectations are skewed to where a TN coach cannot meet them. Our average for several years has been 6-6 but if Heupel can't beat the average the first year with almost 1/3 of the team having hit the portal...... he's not "decent."

It's not the turmoil, not the transfers, not the culture he inherited and will have had less than a year to turn around...... it's the coach. He's not "decent?"

Sheesh.....

For several years we have had below average coaching staffs that squandered a lot of talent so I'm not even taking them into consideration. Just looking at what we have on the roster and comparing it to our schedule there should be 5 wins with almost anyone coaching the team. There are 3 other teams where the talent levels are pretty similar so I would expect a good football coach to manage at least 2 wins from those 3 games. There is nothing unreasonable there.

We'll know if the guy can coach a football team this year, so there is no need to start laying the groundwork for excuses.

 

[hog88]

Please elaborate. Our roster this upcoming season is worse than last. Our best player just transferred to Alabama. We lost our starting LT to transfer, lost our starting RB to transfer. Yeah I know JG is gone, but our defense will more than likely be even worse. And add in a first year coach who got worse each season where he came from. I hope I’m wrong but all this combined with our lack of depth spells doom. Even if JH is the guy it’s gonna take some time

This team was so poorly coached the last 3 years we have no idea who the best players were.

 

[Berry4Heisman14]

There will come a day when UT will hire a coach who knows how to get more out of a roster than the sum of its parts instead of less. Dooley didn't do that. Jones nor Pruitt did that. You are assuming that Heupel won't do that. Some of us are holding on to that hope and expectation.

And my expectation that JH won’t is based off the fact as his players came in UCF Got worse and worse and worse that isn’t debatable. You think he’s gonna succeed by beating out FAU for recruits? I have all the confidence in the world in his ability to coach offense. But to recruit and build a defense? 0 confidence.

 

[Berry4Heisman14]

This team was so poorly coached the last 3 years we have no idea who the best players were.

I can’t argue with that they were all so poorly coached. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Wanya morph into a NFL draft pick now that friend and Pruitt aren’t his coaches

 

[LittleVol]

Even if that were true and I am not conceding that it is... that still doesn't make 6 wins amazing or the roster a 4 win roster. UT had a 7 or 8 win roster last year and won 3 because of really bad coaching and QB play.

Every year... every CFB team loses good players. UK just lost their 10 best... but that's apparently an automatic loss in your opinion. UT has speed at WR. They have some good looking RB's. You are lamenting the loss of an OL that chronically underperformed on the whole and a specific player that never played like a 5* or even close.

You just choose to focus solely on the negative and absolutely refuse to consider anything positive. UT has a lot of talent. Not a lot of experience. But some talented guys.

It could be. I'm not denying that possibility. But unlike you... I'm not drawing that conclusion NOW.

That's just plain dumb... It really is. To pull that completely out of context JUST to have something else to be negative over... holds no water.

Are you really? As consistently as you post it... and as often as you ignore possible good things... you really don't show any sign of hoping you are wrong.


Lack of depth compared to who? Bama and UGA... or USCe and UK?

Thank you.

He is completely hopeless.

And there's far to many on here like him.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

For several years we have had below average coaching staffs that squandered a lot of talent so I'm not even taking them into consideration. Just looking at what we have on the roster and comparing it to our schedule there should be 5 wins with almost anyone coaching the team. There are 3 other teams where the talent levels are pretty similar so I would expect a good football coach to manage at least 2 wins from those 3 games. There is nothing unreasonable there.

We'll know if the guy can coach a football team this year, so there is no need to start laying the groundwork for excuses.

And right below this you say we have no idea what players are talented.

You cannot have it both ways. Saying we have no idea who the talented players are..... yet coaching squandered them.

You're merely looking for ways, you've already started what you think, that Heupel can be labeled "not good enough."

 

[hog88]

And right below this you say we have no idea what players are talented.

You cannot have it both ways. Saying we have no idea who the talented players are..... yet coaching squandered them.

You're merely looking for ways, you've already started what you think, that Heupel can be labeled "not good enough."

No I said we have no idea who our best players are because they have been so poorly coached. Please don't put words in my mouth.

 

[hUTch2002]

Even with the personnel losses we are still more talented than Bowling Green, TN Tech, Pittsburgh, Mizzu, USCjr, South AL and Vandy. Those should be 7 wins for any UT coach. UK should be his 8th. Anything less than 7 wins with this schedule will be a disappointment.

On paper we are more talented. The problem is that talent we have (using the recruiting services as the measure) hasn’t developed as it normally would as Pruitt and staff clearly weren’t good at player development. The unknown is whether or not an off-season with a new coach and staff are enough to overcome that and get our talent performing close to where they should be by this point. My guess is that one off-season won’t be enough for Jrs and Srs but I hope it is. I do think 6-7 wins is about right for this team but 5 or 8 are both possible as well. Anything outside of that on either side would be pretty crazy, not counting any potential bowl game.

 

[LittleVol]

It's a group of guys who either have never played or never played well.

And considering that some of those guys are people who are upperclassmen and didn't make a significant contribution on a team that needed all the help they could get......6-6 and a bowl game would be a very good year.

DL played well in 2019
DB played well in 2019
Large percentage of each will play 2021
So you're wrong there. (Surprise surprise)

RBs haven't played yet
WRs young last year, but played some.
QBs relatively inexperienced
None of those positions are devoid of talent.

So the only remedy of not playing much is playing...
So follow me here; the more they play the MORE experienced they become !
And it just so has it, that we have actual scheduled games for 2021 to gain that experience...

 

[Berry4Heisman14]

Thank you.

He is completely hopeless.

And there's far to many on here like him.

Hopeless? I’m being realistic. Many of you regurgitated the same crap with Dooley, butch and Pruitt. Y’all ignore the red flags I choose to acknowledge them. I think he will be a good offensive coach, a bad recruiter and defensive coach.

 

[BeardedVol]

DL played well in 2019
DB played well in 2019
Large percentage of each will play 2021
So you're wrong there. (Surprise surprise)

How many players that actually played on the 2019 defense are still on the team?

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Some here seem intent on having TN continue to be a coaching carousel. While I'm not saying Heupel is "the one" and will lead us back to where we belong, I'm pretty adamant that swapping out coaching staffs every 3 years isn't going to rebuild the program.

Does that mean we're going to have to settle for lousy coaching? No. It means we need to take into account stability, at least for a few years, to climb out of mediocrity.

This "Swipe Left" (learned that term from a young'un and it describes very well this culture's notion of instant gratification or rejection) idea giving coaches less than year before we "know whether they can coach" is not going to work.

 

[hog88]

Hopeless? I’m being realistic. Many of you regurgitated the same crap with Dooley, butch and Pruitt. Y’all ignore the red flags I choose to acknowledge them. I think he will be a good offensive coach, a bad recruiter and defensive coach.

I have no faith in CJH getting it done, I think he'll be Butchesque in that his ceiling is 8-9 wins in a good year.

 

[hog88]

Some here seem intent on having TN continue to be a coaching carousel. While I'm not saying Heupel is "the one" and will lead us back to where we belong, I'm pretty adamant that swapping out coaching staffs every 3 years isn't going to rebuild the program.

Does that mean we're going to have to settle for lousy coaching? No. It means we need to take into account stability, at least for a few years, to climb out of mediocrity.

This "Swipe Left" (learned that term from a young'un and it describes very well this culture's notion of instant gratification or rejection) idea giving coaches less than year before we "know whether they can coach" is not going to work.

We can't climb out of obscurity and rebuild the program with a coach who can't win the games he should win. I keep seeing the "we can't rebuild replacing coaches every 3-4 years" line but nobody has been able to name a coach we fired too soon.

 

[hUTch2002]

Ah yes, the old "OOC games are the same as conference games mentality"; can't say that I missed it last season when we played 10 SEC games.

I’d like to see us play an all P5 schedule. Play 9-10 in conference and then have a P5 conference or two you line up with each year for 2-3 OOC games that are arranged like they do for the basketball ACC/Big 10 and SEC/Big 12 matchups. The only thing is they need to incorporate the Pac 12 as well. It’s fun playing those teams. Of course each year you’ll have a new conference or two you play against. Or we could stick all SEC. That was pretty cool last year even though I did miss games like what we will see with Clemson-UGA.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

No I said we have no idea who our best players are because they have been so poorly coached. Please don't put words in my mouth.

We can't evaluate them for talent because they were poorly coached BUT we still know they're better than the other guys.

Based upon what? Stars? Performance? Coaching?

Turning poor coaching and bad habits and culture around takes time. Getting guys to buy in to a new coach takes time. Coaching requires personality and motivation but RE-COACHING the BS someone before you drilled in takes time. Unlearning and relearning takes time, new schemes take time.

Insisting: we have talent and they've squandered it for years is one thing. We had talent and helluva a lot of it LEFT this year. That's not on the coach.