To Protect and to Serve II

#12,031
#12,031
Rasputin_Vol said:
From the comments section of the story:



Or better yet, if you are going to impose certain rules on your private property, then the police shouldn't be asked to enforce them... you should enforce them on your own. The police have better things to be doing than playing the mask game.
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I agree with this, it puts everyone in a bad position. There were better ways to handle this situation from every party involved.
 
#12,033
#12,033
Rickyvol77 said:
They couldn't just leave the guy in there armed and making threats, he already kidnapped a teenage girl, do you really think they could just say "aw shucks we will get em next time boys?"
You could argue they didnt need to smash the fence, but that's really the majority of the damage, breaking windows while throwing in gas or flashbangs isn't that big of a deal.
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80 grand is a big deal. The police went way overboard here.
 
#12,043
#12,043
Rasputin_Vol said:


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Both of those officers need to be fired and held personally responsible for punative damages. The second officer deserves jail time. Any other officer who assisted with illegal activities should be fired or suspended based on their involvement. Unacceptable, this is what most repo people I know carry.
 
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#12,045
#12,045
KB5252 said:
Remove the word cops and the statement holds true for virtually any private group on Facebook. If I didn't know better I would assume you were simply pointing out police are reflection of society in general.
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Not arguing against your point in the least, but the problem with this idea is that common sense would tell anyone that the officers engaging in these activities is not what you want to see from people sworn to enforce the law.

Even considering the human element, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect LEOs to not engage in that behavior. It's just not good no matter how you cut it.

Kinda ties in with the overarching theme of this thread; reasonable people aren't upset about instances of LEO properly doing their jobs - much in the same way there's a difference in attention between civilian and LEO Facebook groups. No one expects the general FB masses to show dignity and competence.
 
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#12,046
#12,046
Chris4Vols22 said:
Not arguing against your point in the least, but the problem with this idea is that common sense would tell anyone that the officers engaging in these activities is not what you want to see from people sworn to enforce the law.

Even considering the human element, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect LEOs to not engage in that behavior. It's just not good no matter how you cut it.

Kinda ties in with the overarching theme of this thread; reasonable people aren't upset about instances of LEO properly doing their jobs - much in the same way there's a difference in attention between civilian and LEO Facebook groups. No one expects the general FB masses to show dignity and competence.
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I agree we want to hold them to a somewhat higher standard. My point was that when the average person engages in this type stuff it is more of a societal issue. Especially considering the long hours, stress, pay and understaffing issues are to be expected.

I think there is something to the idea that changes in how we think of policing need to happen. I disagree with the way we are approaching it. Police aren't the issue by and large, society is, at least IMO.
 
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#12,047
#12,047
KB5252 said:
I agree we want to hold them to a somewhat higher standard. My point was that when the average person engages in this type stuff it is more of a societal issue. Especially considering the long hours, stress, pay and understaffing issues are to be expected.

I think there is something to the idea that changes in how we think of policing need to happen. I disagree with the way we are approaching it. Police aren't the issue by and large, society is, at least IMO.
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Again, not disagreeing with your original point in the least.

I personally think the issue is that too many people don't actually hold police accountable in their minds. Your post here kinda reflects that idea. You recognize there's a problem, but "police aren't the issue."

The truth, in my mind, is in the middle. Society/civilians have problems for sure. There is also a problem with the way many cops are trained, and far too many are incompetent to carry the badge in the first place. I don't think any reasonable and realistic assessment would include any kind of implication of "police aren't the issue."

Can society/civilians be bad and make cops' jobs harder? You bet, no doubt about it. Does that excuse incompetence/mistakes/questionable decisions? I certainly don't think so.

My stance has not changed for quite a few years: there are too many bad cops. I believe the majority of LEO in America are good cops with dignity and competence. I acknowledged that being a cop is not easy. I just don't see any factors that should excuse poor decisions or decline in policing quality. I think cops should be paid more to attract better quality applicants and put some budgetary pressure on departments to uphold quality. Make good cops want to be good cops. Don't excuse bad cops.
 
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#12,048
#12,048
Chris4Vols22 said:
Again, not disagreeing with your original point in the least.

I personally think the issue is that too many people don't actually hold police accountable in their minds. Your post here kinda reflects that idea. You recognize there's a problem, but "police aren't the issue."

The truth, in my mind, is in the middle. Society/civilians have problems for sure. There is also a problem with the way many cops are trained, and far too many are incompetent to carry the badge in the first place. I don't think any reasonable and realistic assessment would include any kind of implication of "police aren't the issue."

Can society/civilians be bad and make cops' jobs harder? You bet, no doubt about it. Does that excuse incompetence/mistakes/questionable decisions? I certainly don't think so.

My stance has not changed for quite a few years: there are too many bad cops. I believe the majority of LEO in America are good cops with dignity and competence. I acknowledged that being a cop is not easy. I just don't see any factors that should excuse poor decisions or decline in policing quality. I think cops should be paid more to attract better quality applicants and put some budgetary pressure on departments to uphold quality. Make good cops want to be good cops. Don't excuse bad cops.
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I don't disagree. I think I may have represented my stance incompletely. I agree bad police are a problem. I just think they reflect the same issues on a larger societal scale. Everyone in entrenching into their own safe zones and demonizing in their minds everyone else. It's a societal issue reflected in any subset of people.
 
#12,049
#12,049
KB5252 said:
I agree we want to hold them to a somewhat higher standard. My point was that when the average person engages in this type stuff it is more of a societal issue. Especially considering the long hours, stress, pay and understaffing issues are to be expected.

I think there is something to the idea that changes in how we think of policing need to happen. I disagree with the way we are approaching it. Police aren't the issue by and large, society is, at least IMO.
Click to expand...
Chris4Vols22 said:
Again, not disagreeing with your original point in the least.

I personally think the issue is that too many people don't actually hold police accountable in their minds. Your post here kinda reflects that idea. You recognize there's a problem, but "police aren't the issue."

The truth, in my mind, is in the middle. Society/civilians have problems for sure. There is also a problem with the way many cops are trained, and far too many are incompetent to carry the badge in the first place. I don't think any reasonable and realistic assessment would include any kind of implication of "police aren't the issue."

Can society/civilians be bad and make cops' jobs harder? You bet, no doubt about it. Does that excuse incompetence/mistakes/questionable decisions? I certainly don't think so.

My stance has not changed for quite a few years: there are too many bad cops. I believe the majority of LEO in America are good cops with dignity and competence. I acknowledged that being a cop is not easy. I just don't see any factors that should excuse poor decisions or decline in policing quality. I think cops should be paid more to attract better quality applicants and put some budgetary pressure on departments to uphold quality. Make good cops want to be good cops. Don't excuse bad cops.
Click to expand...

I think both of you guys have your finger on the problem. I think the people/society has changed and I also think that the police culture doesn't allow for change. I think that civilians call on the police for far too many incidents and I believe the police willingly insert themselves into far too any incidents.
 
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#12,050
#12,050
Rasputin_Vol said:
I think both of you guys have your finger on the problem. I think the people/society has changed and I also think that the police culture doesn't allow for change. I think that civilians call on the police for far too many incidents and I believe the police willingly insert themselves into far too any incidents.
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You left out my favorite police malfeasance, pulling people over for egregious offenses like (these are reasons I was pulled over) like having a burned out license plate bulb, someone was tailgating me, I had to drive nearly a 100 mph to catch up to you, you were speeding and here is an explanation of how the police airplane overhead clocked you doing 72 in a 60 MPH zone, do you know what the speed limit is in downtown?, 10 mph and you were doing nearly 20, that woman said you drove through her yard, had to wait 30 minutes for husband to come home and say, no that's not the car. On and on and on and yeah I used to have a lead foot in my younger days, but so did everyone else.
 
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