Weird Rules Question

#1
O

OrngeJuiceJones

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#1
So if you do a fake FG, and you snap the ball back to the holder and when he catches the ball his knee is on the ground, is he not down? Ive seen so many of these instances and it is never ruled down, but he should be you would think. One in particular is 2000 UT Arkansas game, UT called the fake on the 3 yard line if anyone remembers it.
 
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#3
#3
Rule 4, section 1, article 3, part b of the NCAA’s football rule book contains the following exception noted for a dead ball, “Exception: The ball remains alive when an offensive player has simulated a kick or at the snap is in position to kick the ball held for a place kick by a teammate. The ball may be kicked, passed or advanced by rule.”
 
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#6
#6
VOLnVANDYland said:
Why isn’t spiking the ball to kill the clock intentional grounding?
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Have we seen a spiked ball by one of our QBs in the past decade? Doesn't seem like it. Gotta be in games at the end to need to run the hurry up...
 
#7
#7
VOLnVANDYland said:
Why isn’t spiking the ball to kill the clock intentional grounding?
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It used to be. Way back... 70s maybe, a spike was intentional grounding. QBs generally threw the ball high over the head of a WR so that it landed well out of bounds. (Kenny Stabler famously did this on 4th down in Bama vs Tenn to end the game. He didn't like it when Mike Keith (I think) asked him about it in an interview.)

I can't cite the current rule but at the time, they cited speed of play and clarity on when the clock should stop as reasons to adopt.
 
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#8
#8
VOLnVANDYland said:
Why isn’t spiking the ball to kill the clock intentional grounding?
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IIRC, back in the 80's you couldn't spike the ball in college. I'm specifically thinking of the '84 UK game when Robinson hummed it OB to try to stop the clock.
 
#9
#9
My weird rule, or maybe weird interpretation. Pretty much any player who puts his hand on an opponent's facemask and pushed will be penalized 15 yards. Except ball carriers who seem to shove and even grasp a tackler's facemask on a stiff arm. I have never seen a flag thrown against a ball carrier for that, even though it has the same unfair advantage and risk of injury that a rushing defensive lineman committing hands to the face against an offensive lineman. So it that a rule or an interpretation of a rule that allows runners this weapon but no one else?
 
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#10
#10
BondJamesBond said:
My weird rule, or maybe weird interpretation. Pretty much any player who puts his hand on an opponent's facemask and pushed will be penalized 15 yards. Except ball carriers who seem to shove and even grasp a tackler's facemask on a stiff arm. I have never seen a flag thrown against a ball carrier for that, even though it has the same unfair advantage and risk of injury that a rushing defensive lineman committing hands to the face against an offensive lineman. So it that a rule or an interpretation of a rule that allows runners this weapon but no one else?
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Why is the ball carrier not penalized for leading with the crown of his helmet.;)
 
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#11
#11
Intentional grounding (spiking) has exception clauses built in. It has to be done essentially immediately after the snap or after picking up a botched snap. You can’t drop back and then decide to spike it.
 
#12
#12
Why are they still kicking the ball off after a score or to start the game or half? They moved it up to reduce injuries, so why not just eliminate it and give each team the ball at the 25?
 
#13
#13
I have long wished for all of organized football from HS up to develop a consensus rulebook. It could be written in such a way to have variables to keep the integrity of the rules for each, but we should be able to reach one standard field with the same hash marks and same goalposts for example. I would think agreement could be reached on whether one foot or two feet inbounds for a completion. I would also think penalty enforcement could be standardized. Where there were fundamental differences they wanted to maintain, the the rule could have H C P alternate rulings, i.e. H and C could have play ends when ruled down regardless of contact, but P could maintain the ball carrier could get back up in absence of downing contact. Need to maintain different pass interference rules same deal. Any number of variables could be reduced. I would call it the KISS football rulebook It should be limited to everything and only on the filed of play and each level could maintain their own organizational book for off field issues that are unique like squad size, recruiting/draft, post season structure, pregame administration, uniforms etc. Overtime could be a real interesting discussion. I don't know if there are any on field issues that could not be resolved with this format though. I would imagine a lot of things could be cleaned up as each levels play book has evolved over the years.

Besides not being as confusing for players as they progress through the ranks, and fans trying to watch 3 different rules every weekend, it SHOULD really improve the quality and consistency of officiating. Not a bad goal. I cannot imagine how tough it is to make the move from college to pro rulebook as an official. Years of instinctual reactions have to be tough to overcome. Might explain some of those late flags we always see. Many issues could be resolved with a similarly structured book of rulings on the rules or each level maintain it's own to speed up the process rather than have to go back to a conference table to alter the universal rulebook itself. For example how much contact is allowed down field. It can still be defined as illegal, and the penalties for illegal contact can be defined, but the interpretation of the one rule could be different by level. Still end up with one rulebook for the rule and the penalty statement.
 
#16
#16
GUNTERSVOL said:
I have long wished for all of organized football from HS up to develop a consensus rulebook. It could be written in such a way to have variables to keep the integrity of the rules for each, but we should be able to reach one standard field with the same hash marks and same goalposts for example. I would think agreement could be reached on whether one foot or two feet inbounds for a completion. I would also think penalty enforcement could be standardized. Where there were fundamental differences they wanted to maintain, the the rule could have H C P alternate rulings, i.e. H and C could have play ends when ruled down regardless of contact, but P could maintain the ball carrier could get back up in absence of downing contact. Need to maintain different pass interference rules same deal. Any number of variables could be reduced. I would call it the KISS football rulebook It should be limited to everything and only on the filed of play and each level could maintain their own organizational book for off field issues that are unique like squad size, recruiting/draft, post season structure, pregame administration, uniforms etc. Overtime could be a real interesting discussion. I don't know if there are any on field issues that could not be resolved with this format though. I would imagine a lot of things could be cleaned up as each levels play book has evolved over the years.

Besides not being as confusing for players as they progress through the ranks, and fans trying to watch 3 different rules every weekend, it SHOULD really improve the quality and consistency of officiating. Not a bad goal. I cannot imagine how tough it is to make the move from college to pro rulebook as an official. Years of instinctual reactions have to be tough to overcome. Might explain some of those late flags we always see. Many issues could be resolved with a similarly structured book of rulings on the rules or each level maintain it's own to speed up the process rather than have to go back to a conference table to alter the universal rulebook itself. For example how much contact is allowed down field. It can still be defined as illegal, and the penalties for illegal contact can be defined, but the interpretation of the one rule could be different by level. Still end up with one rulebook for the rule and the penalty statement.
Click to expand...
I have long wished for all VN posts to be fewer than 20 words.
 
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#18
#18
OrngeJuiceJones said:
So if you do a fake FG, and you snap the ball back to the holder and when he catches the ball his knee is on the ground, is he not down? Ive seen so many of these instances and it is never ruled down, but he should be you would think. One in particular is 2000 UT Arkansas game, UT called the fake on the 3 yard line if anyone remembers it.
Click to expand...

For that matter, it should be ruled down even before there is a kick. The knee of the player in possession of the ball is on the ground, after all. The exception covers the holder no matter what he chooses to do with the ball.

Good question though.
 
#20
#20
Zues1 said:
Why is the ball carrier not penalized for leading with the crown of his helmet.;)
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IMO the rules are slanted against the D's because the tails that wag the dog wants more O for better TV viewing experience. Especially for the low info driveby fans. This fan likes big scores , same as Race fans like wrecks and banging fenders.Ergo facemask by O to D viewed OK, leading with helmet by O to D is OK. Protecting a QB like he's fine China. It's not about the injuries to a point , it's about the perception that their doing something to lessen injuries while still making big time $$$$. The game changed and stubborn coaches like Saban even changed his MO going forward. Some did not and are paying the price. JMO
 
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#21
#21
The Original Fade said:
Why are they still kicking the ball off after a score or to start the game or half? They moved it up to reduce injuries, so why not just eliminate it and give each team the ball at the 25?
Click to expand...

You lose the onside kick. And if you build in an exception to permit onside kicks, you lose the element of surprise for them all together
 
#22
#22
VFLBerg said:
There is a specific rule that covers that situation.

Why isn't the field goal holder or the extra point holder ruled down in college football when he has his knee on the ground while kneeling? - Quora
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More rules to make kicking a more protected and important part of the game. How bout these two situations.
On kickoffs the kicker is "offsides" on ever kickoff (plant foot) a rule covers this. This gives him much more power to the kick.
A new situation, a punter running 10 -15 yrds before kicking (Aussie kick). Hit him,, and penalty. I say if a punter runs more than 5 steps his is fair game.
I have come to dislike FGs, they are a disservice to a defense (with kicks coming closer to mid field all the time). Close in the goalpost a couple of feet, AND (this is a big one) move the hash marks out a few feet.
Punters kicking further (50-70 yards with little or no return) are just enough without "running punters"
I could go on, but you get my drift..
 
#23
#23
The Original Fade said:
Why are they still kicking the ball off after a score or to start the game or half? They moved it up to reduce injuries, so why not just eliminate it and give each team the ball at the 25?
Click to expand...

Another reason this game they play today needs to have it's name changed from football to wussball.
 
#25
#25
LargeOrange1 said:
Why do tornadoes only touch down in trailer parks?
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They don't, you obviously know very little about tornadoes or you wouldn't say this. You must be thinking about TV coverage of Alabama, anywhere a tornado hits down is likely going to hit a trailer park down there! I jest, the damn things hit anything in their path, they are not to be made fun with..
 
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