Recruiting Forum Football Talk III

Status
Not open for further replies.
There is no possible assessment of the facts that makes this true. Frost won 19 games in two seasons. Hueple won 22 in first two seasons. Hueples worst year, hobbled by covid, was the same as frosts: 6 wins.
Just playing devil's advocate here. Frost first year was a culture changing year. Laying the foundation. Heupel's first year he already had the foundation there for him. Like comparing Fulmers first two years with Majors. Wouldn't you expect the second coach to have a better average with a program in a better spot?
 
I want the big names. I want Freeze. But we aren’t getting them. I’m just putting out there what we know to be true: Heupel is a brilliant offensive coach. He is a great developer of QB’s. He’s done this as both an OC and as a HC. I think that if you pair him with a great DC he could be successful. That’s all. If nothing else the offense will be fun to watch.

I don’t know how any of that is a bad take or even debatable
Have fun watching a "fun offense" while we go 6-6 every year
 
  • Like
Reactions: DustyRockSolid
Just playing devil's advocate here. Frost first year was a culture changing year. Laying the foundation. Heupel's first year he already had the foundation there for him. Like comparing Fulmers first two years with Majors. Wouldn't you expect the second coach to have a better average with a program in a better spot?

For sure, and that’s what happened. The post I was responding to said he won fewer games with better talent which isn’t really true on either count.
 
Just playing devil's advocate here. Frost first year was a culture changing year. Laying the foundation. Heupel's first year he already had the foundation there for him. Like comparing Fulmers first two years with Majors. Wouldn't you expect the second coach to have a better average with a program in a better spot?
You are not taking into account losing the starting QB in year two and also 10 more players in year three.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sleegro
We are hiring a sitting HC with a winning record.

I'm impressed. Seriously.

Since Fulmer was fired, we have only completed this feat once with Butch.

It's not shocking we had our best results under Butch.

If it is Heupel, I'm okay with that.

I figured we would hire Elliott or Steele as HC. Then I would have has to hit the transfer portal as a fan.
 
I mentioned earlier that I’d dive a bit into the stats behind Heupel’s tenure at UCF. If y’all want to talk more about numbers/methodologies we can do that, but I wanted to give a overview tonight.

Over the past couple years, I’ve tweaked a rating system I’ve made to evaluate coaches based on two criteria:

1. Overall performance. Better coaches generally have better teams. Obvious enough.

2. Performance relative to talent on the roster. We can talk for days about the state of development, but raw talent is something we can account for, via 247’s composite. Basically, more talent leads to a higher expectation of performance, and I want to see what coaches outperform their expected values the most.

To measure performance, I’m not going with wins and losses, but ESPN’s efficiency metrics. These are adjusted for SOS and pace, so we can avoid all the “they ain’t played nobody” and total-offense pitfalls. These metrics should tell us just how “good” the team was that year.

After evaluating performance and measuring against what they should’ve done according to their talent level, I’ve placed the values on a classic school grading scale. Saban gets a solid 100/A+, guys like Herman/Doeren are in the C+ range, and Pruitt comes in at a D+.

So now, based on the years 2015+, here are the results. I’ll list a few candidates here.

Freeze
Overall: 80
Offense: 87
Defense: 72

Herman
Overall: 79
Offense: 76
Defense: 80

Fleck
Overall: 78
Offense: 81
Defense: 71

Napier
Overall: 78
Offense: 86
Defense: 66

Chadwell
Overall: 74
Offense: 78
Defense: 67

Kiffin
Overall: 74
Offense: 81
Defense: 65

Dykes
Overall: 73
Offense: 80
Defense: 66

Leipold
Overall: 70
Offense: 72
Defense: 70

Healy
Overall: 58
Offense: 71
Defense: 50

Heupel
Overall: 88
Offense: 91
Defense: 76

Frankly, that offense is a machine, and it’s a consistent machine. Every year graded better than Kiffin’s best at FAU, without the drawback of the 2 that were barely meeting (or slightly failing) talent expectations.

Heupel’s overall profile of results vs. expectations is actually right there with Gundy/Wittingham, and his offensive grade is above the likes of Gundy/Mack Brown/Freeze/Petersen.

I’ve said it earlier, his recruiting and program building is a massive unknown, but this guy is no Sonny Dykes on the field.

Enjoy, and hit me up with any requests, data, questions if you’re interested.

Thanks for the solid analysis. Goid to see some actual #s better than vague generalizations about Heupel. Is He Matt Campbell? No. But lets face it, Campbell was never coming. These stats prove that Kiffin and Freeze are alot of style over substance. hype
 
As far as recruiting goes, I think Drinkwitz at AppSt / Mizzou shows how that could go. His class at AppSt was in the 90s, then at Mizzou ranked 51, 26, and 16 in ‘22.

JH is probably a better know quantity than Drinkwitz was. A quality staff and an appealing offense (and an improvement from a three win season) could likely keep Tennessee in the top 15 recruiting. Speculating, of course, but I could see that playing out.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

VN Store



Back
Top