2020 Presidential Race

#94,151
#94,151
MontyPython said:
Question: So when Giuliani and company literally tell the court that their court cases did NOT ALLEGE THAT FRAUD OCCURRED... you do NOT believe Giuliani and company.

Just trying to understand your *cough* train of logic.
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Do you dismiss accounts from truck drivers that said they delivered unmarked ballots. Do you dismiss all the sworn accounts of people saying what they saw on the ground in these locations. Do you dismiss the statistical anomaly that Biden overcame such a large deficit in GA and elsewhere overnight, all with virtually no votes going to Trump by comparison. Do you dismiss curious videos of suit cases coming out after GOP poll watchers were booted as well as other poll personnel before these ballots were counted. So, it's either entertain these people, or sell out to what a politician says without question.
 
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#94,153
#94,153
GVF said:
Do you dismiss accounts from truck drivers that said they delivered unmarked ballots. Yes, they wouldn’t say it court. Do you dismiss all the sworn accounts of people saying what they saw on the ground in these locations. Most didn’t understand what they were seeing was normal or their complaints were based on bias feelings. Again they don’t hold up in court. Do you dismiss the statistical anomaly that Biden overcame such a large deficit in GA and elsewhere overnight, all with virtually no votes going to Trump by comparison. Trump told his supporters not to vote by mail/absentee. Not because it wasn’t safe and secure but so he could do the exact thing he’s doing now. Baselessly allege fraud. Do you dismiss curious videos of suit cases coming out after GOP poll watchers were booted as well as other poll personnel before these ballots were counted. Nothing suspicious about it. Poll watchers watched people sitting at that table filling the official ballot bags all day. Watchers were not told to leave.So, it's either entertain these people, or sell out to what a politician says without question.
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see bold
 
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#94,155
#94,155
GVF said:
Do you dismiss accounts from truck drivers that said they delivered unmarked ballots. Do you dismiss all the sworn accounts of people saying what they saw on the ground in these locations. Do you dismiss the statistical anomaly that Biden overcame such a large deficit in GA and elsewhere overnight, all with virtually no votes going to Trump by comparison. Do you dismiss curious videos of suit cases coming out after GOP poll watchers were booted as well as other poll personnel before these ballots were counted. So, it's either entertain these people, or sell out to what a politician says without question.
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Yes pretty much and for the same reasons the courts did. "Trumped" up allegations with no basis in fact. Seed doubt in the mind of a moron and you have a doubting moron. Feed facts that counter the conspiratorial arguments to a moron and you have an ignorant moron. Can you say Charlie Kirk? Got smacked down by Geraldo on Martha McCullum's Show last night and still squirted out bile in a last word statement.

It' tough to lose on something you're passionate about but to deny the loss in the face of overwhelming evidence becomes an illness
 
#94,156
#94,156
GVF said:
Do you dismiss accounts from truck drivers that said they delivered unmarked ballots. Do you dismiss all the sworn accounts of people saying what they saw on the ground in these locations. Do you dismiss the statistical anomaly that Biden overcame such a large deficit in GA and elsewhere overnight, all with virtually no votes going to Trump by comparison. Do you dismiss curious videos of suit cases coming out after GOP poll watchers were booted as well as other poll personnel before these ballots were counted. So, it's either entertain these people, or sell out to what a politician says without question.
Click to expand...

This. Is. A. Simple. Question.

Rudy Giuliani and other Trump lawyers stated in court that fraud did not occur.

QUESTION: DO YOU BELIEVE GIULIANI'S STATEMENT THAT FRAUD DID NOT OCCUR?

I mean, this is literally the most bass-ackwards argument I think I've ever had. Trump's own attorneys say no fraud occurred, yet I'm asking you if you believe the opposite of what Trump's minions are saying. Crazy.

Here is the verbatim exchange:

Pennsylvania

In a recent Pennsylvania federal case, Giuliani alleged “widespread, nationwide voter fraud” in his opening remarks. But under questioning from the judge, he retreated. “This is not a fraud case,” Giuliani later admitted. In the same case, Trump lawyer Linda Kearns said explicitly that she is “not proceeding” on allegations of fraud.

In a separate state case in Montgomery County, Pa., a judge asked Trump lawyer Jonathan S. Goldstein whether he was alleging fraud. “Your honor, accusing people of fraud is a pretty big step,” Goldstein said. “And it is rare that I call somebody a liar, and I am not calling the Board of the [Democratic National Committee] or anybody else involved in this a liar. Everybody is coming to this with good faith.” The judge pressed Goldstein to answer the specific question: “Are you claiming that there is any fraud in connection with these 592 disputed ballots?” To which Goldstein replied: “To my knowledge at present, no.”

Source:

Time Magazine:

Donald Trump And His Lawyers Are Making Sweeping Allegations of Voter Fraud In Public. In Court, They Say No Such Thing
 
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#94,160
#94,160
BowlBrother85 said:
Such as what? I never see any specifics cited... and why wasn't any of this "evidence" ever presented in a federal court? Especially when in front of a Trump-appointed judge? Judge Brett Ludwig in the Eastern District of Wisconsin gave the Trump legal representation a fair chance. They could have called witnesses if they needed to. They didn't. Judge Ludwig administered a sharp rebuke, which was based solely on the merits of the case which had been presented.

...and why wasn't any of this "evidence" ever shown to Attorney General, William Barr? It doesn't make any sense, unless there simply is no such "evidence".
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Trump and company failing to present evidence is one thing, doesn't mean it's not there. I'd like to see more investigation into the drivers that claimed they hauled trucks of ballots across state lines to undisclosed locations. I'd like to see more of the GA suitcase videos. I'd like to hear a plausible explanation as to how a candidate that was overwhelmingly ahead in states he ultimately lost, suddenly got behind in overnight ballot counting absent most poll workers and watchers, such as GA and PA. How do those numbers Biden made up overnight include by comparison almost no votes for Trump. There's no statistical model I'm aware of that could justly explain that oddity. elections are won. elections are lost. That's public life whether your vote worked or not. But, at this point in America's political atmosphere and shenanigan's I don't place much weight at all on what comes out of their mouths or the medias. i'd just like to see some explanations where they don't take us for idiots.
 
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#94,161
#94,161
Ashevolle said:
Biden is the most popular democratic candidate of all time.
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I think it had more to do with people not liking Trump and Biden being... fine.

HRC and Trump were the two least favorable candidates ever. A lot of people took a chance on the “business man” despite not liking him. A lot of people went 3rd party. And a lot of people just didn’t vote (If I recall there was a high “anomaly” of ballots that filled out down ballot but skipped POTUS in 16).

But after 4 years of Trump being Trump and seeing how he handled a real crisis, more people came out to boot him than they were coming out for any particular Dem. And those 3rd party/Independent votes broke for Biden.

It’s funny watching Trumpers whine about Biden in his basement. He actually ran a smart campaign and let Trump self implode.
 
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#94,162
#94,162
burntorangeVOLffle said:
I think it had more to do with people not liking Trump and Biden being... fine.

HRC and Trump were the two least favorable candidates ever. A lot of people took a chance on the “business man” despite not liking him. A lot of people went 3rd party. And a lot of people just didn’t vote (If I recall there was a high “anomaly” of ballots that filled out down ballot but skipped POTUS in 16).

But after 4 years of Trump being Trump and seeing how he handled a real crisis, more people came out to boot him than they were coming out for any particular Dem. And those 3rd party/Independent votes broke for Biden.

It’s funny watching Trumpers whine about Biden in his basement. He actually ran a smart campaign and let Trump self implode.
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No one could have done any better with the manufactured crisis
It's going to be funny to see if the media allows him to hide for months at a time still or if anyone will call him out. He didn't have the energy to run for president so I can only imagine the stress will put him under within about 2 years. Or he is allowed to hide while barry and the whore run things.
 
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#94,172
#94,172
GSD82 said:
No one could have done any better with the manufactured crisis
It's going to be funny to see if the media allows him to hide for months at a time still or if anyone will call him out. He didn't have the energy to run for president so I can only imagine the stress will put him under within about 2 years. Or he is allowed to hide while barry and the whore run things.
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Such small-minded comments. Grow TF up, man.
 
#94,173
#94,173
GVF said:
Trump and company failing to present evidence is one thing, doesn't mean it's not there. I'd like to see more investigation into the drivers that claimed they hauled trucks of ballots across state lines to undisclosed locations. I'd like to see more of the GA suitcase videos. I'd like to hear a plausible explanation as to how a candidate that was overwhelmingly ahead in states he ultimately lost, suddenly got behind in overnight ballot counting absent most poll workers and watchers, such as GA and PA. How do those numbers Biden made up overnight include by comparison almost no votes for Trump. There's no statistical model I'm aware of that could justly explain that oddity. elections are won. elections are lost. That's public life whether your vote worked or not. But, at this point in America's political atmosphere and shenanigan's I don't place much weight at all on what comes out of their mouths or the medias. i'd just like to see some explanations where they don't take us for idiots.
Click to expand...

I really feel like you are making no effort to look into these claims past what you must be seeing on social media.

Your first statement makes no sense. They fail to present evidence because there is none.

Again...

Nothing nefarious about the GA “suitcase” situation. You saw a normal activity with commentary from a Trump lawyer misrepresenting what was going on. They didn’t present it in courts because they knew it wouldn’t hold up. They showed it in a partisan state hearing where no one was sworn in. It was a complete misinformation stunt.

Mail/Absentee ballots were counted after ED ballots. Trump told his supporters not to vote by mail. Makes 100% sense they were heavy Biden. Days leading up to they election every news outlet said to expect a Red Mirage on ED and Blue Shift as the counting continued.

Look into the credibility of the truck driver. You will quickly find his story to be questionable at best. Beyond the ghost hunting he has a history of drug abuse and mental health problems. I hope he gets the help he needs but his story is not credible or corroborated by anyone else. It was looked into and found to be an unreliable account.
 
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#94,174
#94,174
MontyPython said:
This. Is. A. Simple. Question.

Rudy Giuliani and other Trump lawyers stated in court that fraud did not occur.

QUESTION: DO YOU BELIEVE GIULIANI'S STATEMENT THAT FRAUD DID NOT OCCUR?

I mean, this is literally the most bass-ackwards argument I think I've ever had. Trump's own attorneys say no fraud occurred, yet I'm asking you if you believe the opposite of what Trump's minions are saying. Crazy.

Here is the verbatim exchange:

Pennsylvania

In a recent Pennsylvania federal case, Giuliani alleged “widespread, nationwide voter fraud” in his opening remarks. But under questioning from the judge, he retreated. “This is not a fraud case,” Giuliani later admitted. In the same case, Trump lawyer Linda Kearns said explicitly that she is “not proceeding” on allegations of fraud.

In a separate state case in Montgomery County, Pa., a judge asked Trump lawyer Jonathan S. Goldstein whether he was alleging fraud. “Your honor, accusing people of fraud is a pretty big step,” Goldstein said. “And it is rare that I call somebody a liar, and I am not calling the Board of the [Democratic National Committee] or anybody else involved in this a liar. Everybody is coming to this with good faith.” The judge pressed Goldstein to answer the specific question: “Are you claiming that there is any fraud in connection with these 592 disputed ballots?” To which Goldstein replied: “To my knowledge at present, no.”

Source:

Time Magazine:

Donald Trump And His Lawyers Are Making Sweeping Allegations of Voter Fraud In Public. In Court, They Say No Such Thing
Click to expand...

I understand that simple question. I'm not arguing against it. I'm saying what about the truck drivers that said they delivered ballots across state lines. Or anywhere for that matter. What about their account? The question would be the same for me if the other foot. And I read enough of this forum to know that if it was on the other foot some of you would be asking those very same questions and the Dems wouldn't "let it go." IMO, some Trump backers in the circle are taking the opportunity to separate themselves cleanly and giving themselves the chance to bow out without incurring more public damage. And couple that with not acknowledging the whole Biden and Hunter thing until after the election. For four years it was about outside election interference form foreign countries. Now, it's impossible for America to interfere with it's own election. Can't be done. Rudy and Barr are politicians at heart. They are saving their own skin at this point. So, they say there's no proof. So be it. There was no proof in 2016 either, right?
 
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#94,175
#94,175
GVF said:
I understand that simple question. I'm not arguing against it. I'm saying what about the truck drivers that said they delivered ballots across state lines. Or anywhere for that matter. What about their account? The question would be the same for me if the other foot. And I read enough of this forum to know that if it was on the other foot some of you would be asking those very same questions and the Dems wouldn't "let it go." IMO, some Trump backers in the circle are taking the opportunity to separate themselves cleanly and giving themselves the chance to bow out without incurring more public damage. And couple that with not acknowledging the whole Biden and Hunter thing until after the election. For four years it was about outside election interference form foreign countries. Now, it's impossible for America to interfere with it's own election. Can't be done. Rudy and Barr are politicians at heart. They are saving their own skin at this point. So, they say there's no proof. So be it. There was no proof in 2016 either, right?
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It seems unlikely that a driver would know what is actually in his truck when the goal of their load is to defraud a US presidential election. Most don't have any real idea outside of what the bol tells them
 
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