Recruiting Forum Football Talk III

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#3,601
#3,601
Kingston Vol said:
I'd like to open this up to folks who are older than me: what was it that made Fulmer successful here as head coach? I was four years old in 1998, my first real memories are the 2001 season, so I've really only seen this program come down.

Is it as simple as David Cutcliffe was just that good? I think that doesn't give Fulmer his due.

Is what he did here replicable in 2020?
Click to expand...
I might get flamed for saying this, but perhaps the biggest reason Phil was so successful here in the 90s is because the rest of the SEC except Florida was ass. Please don't misunderstand; Phil was a good coach, and he had to be a good coach to be able to take advantage of the situation and win at the level he did. However, I don't think it is a coincidence that when Richt, Urban, and Saban entered the SEC in the early 2000s, Phil's recruiting prowess started to decline.

Phil's calling card is that he was a great recruiter, and he let his assistants focus on Xs and Os. Phil was really lucky to have Cut and Chavis already on staff when he took the HC job after Johnny; all he had to do was promote them. When Phil had to replace Cut, it didn't go well either time (Randy Sanders and Dave Clawson). Phil was not a strong Xs and Os guy, and while he had longtime, loyal staffs for the most part, he wasn't good at replacing people when they left.
 
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#3,602
#3,602
Kingston Vol said:
I'd like to open this up to folks who are older than me: what was it that made Fulmer successful here as head coach? I was four years old in 1998, my first real memories are the 2001 season, so I've really only seen this program come down.

Is it as simple as David Cutcliffe was just that good? I think that doesn't give Fulmer his due.

Is what he did here replicable in 2020?
Click to expand...

Player Development & RB Talent. I also still think Peyton changed his entire career, who knows if Fulmer gets where he got without landing Peyton. (That was his 2nd full season as HC when Peyton took over in 94)

But ultimately they recruited NFL talent and then followed through on developing them into NFL talent. I remember some ridiculous talent at RB coming out of here in the 90s

Charlie Garner
James "Little Man" Stewart (my first favorite player)
Aaron Hayden
Jay Graham
Jamal Lewis
Shawn Bryson
Travis Henry
Travis Stephens
Cedric Houston
Gerald Riggs Jr
Arian Foster
Montario Hardesty
 
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#3,603
#3,603
Kingston Vol said:
I'd like to open this up to folks who are older than me: what was it that made Fulmer successful here as head coach? I was four years old in 1998, my first real memories are the 2001 season, so I've really only seen this program come down.

Is it as simple as David Cutcliffe was just that good? I think that doesn't give Fulmer his due.

Is what he did here replicable in 2020?
Click to expand...
Wish I was 26 again.....
 
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#3,607
#3,607
05_never_again said:
I might get flamed for saying this, but perhaps the biggest reason Phil was so successful here in the 90s is because the rest of the SEC except Florida was ass. Please don't misunderstand; Phil was a good coach, and he had to be a good coach to be able to take advantage of the situation and win at the level he did. However, I don't think it is a coincidence that when Richt, Urban, and Saban entered the SEC in the early 2000s, Phil's recruiting prowess started to decline.

Phil's calling card is that he was a great recruiter, and he let his assistants focus on Xs and Os. Phil was really lucky to have Cut and Chavis already on staff when he took the HC job after Johnny; all he had to do was promote them. When Phil had to replace Cut, it didn't go well either time (Randy Sanders and Dave Clawson). Phil was not a strong Xs and Os guy, and while he had longtime, loyal staffs for the most part, he wasn't good at replacing people when they left.
Click to expand...

He definitely had loyal staff and I think letting them do their jobs without micro-managing was a big part of that. The crazy part to me is if Steve Spurrier was anywhere else during that era how many more titles Phil would have won.
 
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#3,608
#3,608
MoCo_Vol said:
Player Development & RB Talent. I also still think Peyton changed his entire career, who knows if Fulmer gets where he got without landing Peyton. (That was his 2nd full season as HC when Peyton took over in 94)

But ultimately they recruited NFL talent and then followed through on developing them into NFL talent. I remember some ridiculous talent at RB coming out of here in the 90s

Charlie Garner
James "Little Man" Stewart (my first favorite player)
Aaron Hayden
Jay Graham
Jamal Lewis
Shawn Bryson
Travis Henry
Travis Stephens
Cedric Houston
Gerald Riggs Jr
Arian Foster
Montario Hardesty
Click to expand...
The Peyton effect lasted multiple years beyond his graduation, into the early 2000s. We were multiple years removed from the national title in 2000, 2001, etc., yet I think we had the #1 class in the country both years. Not only did he kill it at Tennessee when he was there, but he was starting to kill it in the NFL. The further he got removed from that, and also once some great recruiters came into the SEC (Richt, Saban, Urban), Phil really lost his recruiting edge, which was his primary attribute as a coach.

Cut's departure after the 1998 season I think really hurt our future QB development and of course the offense as a whole.
 
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#3,609
#3,609
Aesius said:
Fulmer was an elite recruiter and an excellent head coach/program CEO
SEC wasn't as good or deep as it is now
Vols were a national brand
Great coordinators who all worked well together and stuck around for a long time
The brand of football we played still worked when we could out-talent the competition, except against the Gators
Click to expand...

Plus he had the backing of the UT administration. Dickey's vision of the program and ability to influence the boosters cannot be undersold.
 
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#3,610
#3,610
drvenner said:
Excuses are instruments of futility. They build monuments of insignificance. Those who concentrate on utilizing them are seldom proficient at anything else.


We had to memorize that quote from a company commander I had once. I think it is very relevant now.
Click to expand...

We are doing a job search right now, and I’m paraphrasing this repeatedly for job candidates that have caught someone’s eye, but clearly don’t have the resume that says “I am going to produce research that will get me tenure.” My colleagues start making excuses for why their preferred candidate hasn’t produced yet and I just don’t want to hear it. We know what a winner looks like.

I imagine this translates to a lot of jobs. Excuses happen in the “double down” phase of losing an argument.
 
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#3,612
#3,612
Mackenzie Milton is going to attempt to play football next year as a grad transfer.
I know someone suggested we try to get him, if he was 80% of what he used to be at UCF he’d start at a lot of schools. worried about that leg tho. But one year, it’s worth a damn shot!
 
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#3,613
#3,613
Kingston Vol said:
I'd like to open this up to folks who are older than me: what was it that made Fulmer successful here as head coach? I was four years old in 1998, my first real memories are the 2001 season, so I've really only seen this program come down.

Is it as simple as David Cutcliffe was just that good? I think that doesn't give Fulmer his due.

Is what he did here replicable in 2020?
Click to expand...

Fulmer could go pick any kid he wanted. Like saban does now. And he had really good assistants.
 
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#3,614
#3,614
MoCo_Vol said:
He definitely had loyal staff and I think letting them do their jobs without micro-managing was a big part of that. The crazy part to me is if Steve Spurrier was anywhere else during that era how many more titles Phil would have won.
Click to expand...
If Spurrier was in the SEC West, Phil probably would have won the East every year from 1995-1999. If Spurrier was outside the SEC, Phil probably would have won the SEC all of those years too and probably played in multiple national title games.
 
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#3,615
#3,615
Kingston Vol said:
I'd like to open this up to folks who are older than me: what was it that made Fulmer successful here as head coach? I was four years old in 1998, my first real memories are the 2001 season, so I've really only seen this program come down.

Is it as simple as David Cutcliffe was just that good? I think that doesn't give Fulmer his due.

Is what he did here replicable in 2020?
Click to expand...

Mark Richt was at Ga, Bama was bad, Everyone ran a pro style offense so you could still win games 14-10, continuity among his coordinators, he was a great recruiter pre 1999, only major schools played on TV so we won recruiting battles against mid major teams and the admin was in sync. Some can be repeated but today’s climate, the style of play and our horrible administration has me thinking we will have to resort to YouTube to watch TN win on a high level. Just my 2 cents...
 
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#3,616
#3,616
BruinVol said:
on field coaching staff you damn idiot.

LONG WASNT ONE
Click to expand...
Not what YOU said. He was on staff and a great asset. Plain and simple. The Saban Way, right? Hiring other OCs/DCs/HCs as analysts?

Obviously, he doesn’t see ours or many other OC jobs opening up and doesn’t want to go to a position coach role, so he went to work with a friend of his. You trying to use it as ‘proof’ of others’ ignorance is just pathetic. Which is par for the course with you.
 
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#3,617
#3,617
SIAP but McKenzie Milton in the transfer portal.

Nebraska?

Edit: def should’ve read a few posts above before posting
 
#3,619
#3,619
I4Jay said:
Mackenzie Milton is going to attempt to play football next year as a grad transfer.
I know someone suggested we try to get him, if he was 80% of what he used to be at UCF he’d start at a lot of schools. worried about that leg tho. But one year, it’s worth a damn shot!
Click to expand...

I’d say Nebraska has to be the favorite
 
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#3,620
#3,620
Aesius said:
Fulmer was an elite recruiter and an excellent head coach/program CEO
SEC wasn't as good or deep as it is now
Vols were a national brand
Great coordinators who all worked well together and stuck around for a long time
The brand of football we played still worked when we could out-talent the competition, except against the Gators
Click to expand...
Chavis was the weak link when it came to UF. The only time I saw our D truly prepared for UFs offense was in 2001 when 9/11 delayed the game. I will say though it’s a harsh measure because both Spurrier and Meyer were innovators on offense. UF was doing things very differently from the other teams we played which made them much harder to prep for. Chavis was a very good DC for us but he was up against two HoF coaches that specialized on offense.
 
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#3,621
#3,621
05_never_again said:
The Peyton effect lasted multiple years beyond his graduation, into the early 2000s. We were multiple years removed from the national title in 2000, 2001, etc., yet I think we had the #1 class in the country both years. Not only did he kill it at Tennessee when he was there, but he was starting to kill it in the NFL. The further he got removed from that, and also once some great recruiters came into the SEC (Richt, Saban, Urban), Phil really lost his recruiting edge, which was his primary attribute as a coach.

Cut's departure after the 1998 season I think really hurt our future QB development and of course the offense as a whole.
Click to expand...

I still wonder if the problem after that was Sanders being in over his head, or Fulmer resisting attempts to modernize the offense.
 
#3,623
#3,623
Kingston Vol said:
I'd like to open this up to folks who are older than me: what was it that made Fulmer successful here as head coach? I was four years old in 1998, my first real memories are the 2001 season, so I've really only seen this program come down.

Is it as simple as David Cutcliffe was just that good? I think that doesn't give Fulmer his due.

Is what he did here replicable in 2020?
Click to expand...

Positives- Fulmer was a great CEO and had great coaches until Cutcliffe left at OC. The SC program was great and player development was incredible. You could always count on guys improving. Recruiting was great until the end of his tenure. Tennessee could run the ball on just about anyone, but Peyton and Heath were the only QBs that aired it out.

Negatives- Very conservative game plans, hardly ever blew anyone out. Too loyal to Randy Sanders. Very stubborn and did not adapt to the Spread game. Think about Les Miles at LSU.

No it’s not replicable in 2020. I actually feel like that’s what we are trying to do, but can’t win games like that anymore. The SEC is a tougher conference and you have to be able to score a lot of points.
 
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