2020 Presidential Race

#88,276
#88,276
Orange_Crush said:
petitio principii

(Also, the bold in the quote didn't say what you seem to think it should have said about Trump.)
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I know that you just read your textbook on formal logic and you want to utilize all the cool new things that you learned about, but you should probably only bring up your fallacies where they actually apply. You would appear smarter that way.
 
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#88,279
#88,279
Rasputin_Vol said:
Meh, he died over what essentially was a petty rap beef. So not too bright.
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The quote was brilliant. People who misappropriated it weren't.

He wasn't saying that the Electoral College should guarantee someone that's popular and trouble-free. It was saying that it should protect us from someone who is merely those things. It's similar to saying that "fart jokes may get you some laughs, but it'll take more than that to appeal to thinking people".

He basically just complained that the EC didn't provide us the least of things.
 
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#88,280
#88,280
Serene said:
I know that you just read your textbook on formal logic and you want to utilize all the cool new things that you learned about, but you should probably only bring up your fallacies where they actually apply. You would appear smarter that way.
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Sure. If you say so.

You should probably understand a quote before trying to use it.
 
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#88,281
#88,281
Serene said:
No, yeah, you're right. I always forget about that pesky electoral college. In that case... Oh, wait, Joe Biden won that one, too? Oh. Awkward.
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Not yet he hasn't won and this is the United States of America that is why there is the electoral college and they can vote how they want when there is fraud.
 
#88,282
#88,282
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#88,283
#88,283
Serene said:
"The process of election affords a moral certainty, that the office of President will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications. Talents for low intrigue, and the little arts of popularity, may alone suffice to elevate a man to the first honors in a single State; but it will require other talents, and a different kind of merit, to establish him in the esteem and confidence of the whole Union, or of so considerable a portion of it as would be necessary to make him a successful candidate for the distinguished office of President of the United States."

Well, if the electoral college was working properly, Donald Trump would never have been elected. So I guess back to the drawing board for the Founding Fathers.
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You either smuggled in the premise that Trump is unfit for presidency and then used that to "prove" the EC failed, or you completely missed the meaning of the bold and abused the quote to discredit the EC.

My post allowed for either, so which was it?
 
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#88,284
#88,284
rocytop2624 said:
Not yet he hasn't won and this is the United States of America that is why there is the electoral college and they can vote how they want when there is fraud.
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See this is where I disagree. I do not like the idea of faithless electorate. If fraud is proven (big if) or elections are set aside because of states not following the law (possible but not likely) then this goes to the state legislature to decide. That’s what the constitution says.
If I’m understanding it correctly it becomes one state one vote. My personal view is it should still be EC votes determined by the legislature but I don’t get to change the constitution.
As I’ve said many times let’s follow the constitution and let the chips fall where they may.
 
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#88,285
#88,285
Orange_Crush said:
You either smuggled in the premise that Trump is unfit for presidency and then used that to "prove" the EC failed, or you completely missed the meaning of the bold and abused the quote to discredit the EC.

My post allowed for either, so which was it?
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I'm asserting that Donald Trump doesn't have merits above and beyond talents for low intrigue and popularity. Feel free to explain to me how coming in with that premise and then concluding that the electoral college failed its job is begging the question. When you lay it out, I bet even you're smart enough to see your flaw in logic.
 
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#88,286
#88,286
luthervol said:
Pennsylvania Supreme Court dismisses another election case brought by Republicans - CNNPolitics

The Pennsylvania Supreme Court dismissed a lawsuit Saturday night from US Rep. Mike Kelly and other Republicans, after they had tried to invalidate absentee voting and block the certification of votes in recent weeks.
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It's almost like Trump doesn't really have a case and he's just trying to whip delusional cultists into a frenzy so they'll put pressure on state legislatures to help him pull off a coup.
 
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#88,287
#88,287
Serene said:
I'm asserting that Donald Trump doesn't have merits above and beyond talents for low intrigue and popularity. Feel free to explain to me how coming in with that premise and then concluding that the electoral college failed its job is begging the question. When you lay it out, I bet even you're smart enough to see your flaw in logic.
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And...you smuggled that in as a premise without establishing them, thus your point about the EC wasn't established.

Thanks. Have a nice evening.
 
#88,288
#88,288
Orangeslice13 said:
See this is where I disagree. I do not like the idea of faithless electorate. If fraud is proven (big if) or elections are set aside because of states not following the law (possible but not likely) then this goes to the state legislature to decide. That’s what the constitution says.
If I’m understanding it correctly it becomes one state one vote. My personal view is it should still be EC votes determined by the legislature but I don’t get to change the constitution.
As I’ve said many times let’s follow the constitution and let the chips fall where they may.
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Even if one or two states get their elections thrown out, I don't think it goes to the House of Representatives for state delegation votes unless no candidate reaches 270. I could be wrong.
 
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#88,289
#88,289
Orange_Crush said:
I'm searching your post for the logic in it. Can you help me out?

Because different people didn't think an election 20 years ago was massively defrauded, this election couldn't have been defrauded?

Help me out with the causative parallels you're trying to establish.
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Then you are a stupid person who needs everything spelled out for him, like a child. Several of Trump apologists, have drawn parallels between what they perceived to be "liberals crying over Russia" with Trump's refusal to concede. There aren't any, because in 2016 when faced with the same result as Trump is now.... Hillary Clinton conceded. The investigation over whether or not the 2016 Trump campaign colluded with Russian agents never involved trying to overturn the outcome. It involved getting to the bottom of the June 9, 2016 meeting at Trump Tower and whether or not the wikiLeaks releases were done in coordination with the Trump campaign.
 
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#88,293
#88,293
clarksvol00 said:
Even if one or two states get their elections thrown out, I don't think it goes to the House of Representatives for state delegation votes unless no candidate reaches 270. I could be wrong.
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That’s why I said unlikely but there are enough that broke the law changing the rules that it becomes possible
 
#88,296
#88,296
Orangeslice13 said:
That’s why I said unlikely but there are enough that broke the law changing the rules that it becomes possible
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Its a lot more difficult to find information about the procedures for the electoral college than it should be. There may be scenarios which aren't even covered. I spent way too much time trying to figure out what happens if PA legislature and PA governor were to each support a different set of electors. Lot of conflicting articles.
 
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#88,299
#88,299
clarksvol00 said:
Its a lot more difficult to find information about the procedures for the electoral college than it should be. There may be scenarios which aren't even covered. I spent way too much time trying to figure out what happens if PA legislature and PA governor were to each support a different set of electors. Lot of conflicting articles.
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I know.
That’s one of the reasons I said this isn’t over till sometime in January. I expect it will all go as we expect and maybe some good will come from it like standardization or other reforms. But as you have said there’s so much going on and too many people giving opinions that it’s tough to know for sure. That’s why I’m leaving open the possibility of it going the other way and Trump pulling a rabbit out of the hat.
 
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