How good is Fulmer at contracts?

#26
#26
So far, he's at least better than that goof at Aubarn who gave Malzhan/Sexton that crazy $49 million albatross.
 
#27
#27
Volfan76 said:
We all know how Butch Jones is screwing UT by not seeking real employment. My discussion point is...can Pruitt be demoted to DC rather than fired if Fulmer was to hire an offensive minded head coach like Freeze. Same with Ainsley to DB. Would be a great start on a coaching staff and UT would at least get some return on their investment. Question is can it be done? 2nd question...do they negate their contract if they refuse to do it?
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Here's a better question, name 1 assistant coach that Fulmer hired that was any good? Now, ask yourself do you really want Fulmer hiring the next head coach here?
 
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#29
#29
Volfan76 said:
We all know how Butch Jones is screwing UT by not seeking real employment. My discussion point is...can Pruitt be demoted to DC rather than fired if Fulmer was to hire an offensive minded head coach like Freeze. Same with Ainsley to DB. Would be a great start on a coaching staff and UT would at least get some return on their investment. Question is can it be done? 2nd question...do they negate their contract if they refuse to do it?
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This sounds crazy, however it would benefit both the University and Pruitt. Pruitt is a good coach, he has never been the head coach and signs of that are evident in every play we run. He needed to get out of the Sanna shadow and be part of building a team.
N
His failures are as predictable as our offense.
 
#30
#30
Like most, I was glad Fulmer got back in the mix. It sort of felt like the "good ol' days" of his previous tenure would come back with his presence.

That would have been nice, but I begin to question his decisions as time passes. I also question the Administration equally. How can we continue to give raises and extensions to coaches that literally have not performed? Yes, we went on a nice winning streak after Alabama last year and it continued until we hit a wall the third game of this season. That alone created the "hype" that we'd finally made a great coaching hire and all, including most of VN, felt good about an extension. But now looking back at the Dooley-Kiffen-Jones eras, I feel we may be adding the Pruitt name to it soon. He has potential, but we need proven leadership in this position rather than someone learning the ropes. Administration and big-time influential donors have called these shots. It is becoming quite obvious they haven't a clue!

I am still a supporter of Pruitt but when bigger fish are in the tank, it may be better to change bait and snag them. Proven winners are rare.

Administration need to pull up their big boy pants, admit their mistakes, and go get Freeze.

Now!
 
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#31
#31
Fulmer made more bad hires as a head coach than he did good hires. So I'm really not confident in his ability to broker any deal.

At one time Fulmer was a very successful recruiter for top talent, but that's more of the politician side of him. As far as a buisness man.....not so much....
 
#32
#32
Iam4utalways said:
The HC should always have at least 4 or 5 years left on their contract to show stability to players and recruits. When the time comes to move on you pay the buyout and move on.
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Contract extensions need to be give and take. If Pruitt wants 2 more years and a raise then reduce the buyout by the equivalent of the raise over every year on his contract.
 
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#33
#33
madbamahater said:
Fulmer made more bad hires as a head coach than he did good hires. So I'm really not confident in his ability to broker any deal.

At one time Fulmer was a very successful recruiter for top talent, but that's more of the politician side of him. As far as a buisness man.....not so much....
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Fulmer’s success is tied directly to David Cutcliffe. Notice how he kinda trailed off once Cut left.
 
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#34
#34
GoVols15 said:
Is that you Cornbread?
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I know right.

That’s just the way it is. I’m not aware of many/any P5 HCs that don’t have buyouts and long contracts. To be fair I only pay attention to what goes on at UT. Fix us and let the chips fall.
 
#36
#36
Iam4utalways said:
The HC should always have at least 4 or 5 years left on their contract to show stability to players and recruits. When the time comes to move on you pay the buyout and move on.
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That's a line that the administration has fed to the masses to try to justify their poor decisions. Every player that commits to UT thinks they are going to the NFL after their junior season. 3-4 years is sufficient in most cases. Not 5-6 to a completely unproven coach.

Adding 2 years to Pruitt's contract at 13-12 with the glaring coaching deficiencies that were obvious in the first two years (really became magnified this year) was administrative malpractice in the era of COVID.
 
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#37
#37
Keefus said:
Pruitt wouldn’t go for that, come on!
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He probably wouldn't but coaches get demoted all the time. Muschamp did it to his OC at SC. Every contract has statements about seeking employment if terminated. Could you fire him then offer him a dc position for the same money and period. At least that would keep anyone else from getting him. Nobody is going to pay him 3.whatever million per year as a dc
 
#38
#38
05_never_again said:
It happens with corporate executives all the time. Happens in Hollywood.

It's common any position where the supply of potential candidates is very small and the demand is very high. The reason those buyouts exist is quite simply because the coaches have that kind of leverage. There aren't very many coaches at that level, and the schools are desperate for one because the financial rewards of having a good football team is very high.
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We will agree to disagree on potential candidates being few. Homerun hires? Yes. Competent coaches? No. There are probably hundreds of coaches in high school and lesser divisions that could produce equal results as we are seeing Pruitt deliver. He is grossly overpaid and there was no need to offer him an extension and raise. List the schools that were trying to poach him.
 
#39
#39
BigOrangeMojo said:
To answer your thread question Fulmer is awful at contracts.

1. He gave a raise and an extension to a coach with little leverage.

2. Theres nothing resembling buyout reciprocity in the contract.

3. There's no offset provision unlike every other SEC HC contract. Fulmer gave up that piece of leverage too.

From a contractual standpoint, Pruitt has more leverage here than Saban does at Bama, which is crazy.
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Fulmer's ability to keep drawing a paycheck is tied to JP staying as HC. Not literally, but if JP is fired, how far behind is Phil?

As I have said before, it is going to take the Jaws of Life to get Fulmer out of that office and away from that cash stream.

So.....color me not shocked that JP got a deal which makes it hard to fire him.
 
#41
#41
landscapingvol said:
We will agree to disagree on potential candidates being few. Homerun hires? Yes. Competent coaches? No. There are probably hundreds of coaches in high school and lesser divisions that could produce equal results as we are seeing Pruitt deliver. He is grossly overpaid and there was no need to offer him an extension and raise. List the schools that were trying to poach him.
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High school coaches don't get considered for this job. You're right that Pruitt is overpaid, but just because he's doing a job that a lesser coach could do doesn't mean that the thousands of high school coaches in the country are in the pool for consideration.

There is gigantic demand for a head football coach at Tennessee, there are maybe a few dozen people on the planet who UT would plausibly hire for the job, and only a handful of that couple dozen would actually get considered/interviewed. The supply is relatively small and demand is gigantic.

Plus, all of these salaries (with the exception of Vandy) are public. Any coach interested in the Tennessee job is going to ask for a salary at least around the midpoint of the other SEC coaches, even if they have no experience, because Tennessee is a big program. At present, that midpoint is about $5M/year. No coach is going to come in here and take a salary way below their peers. Would you do that at your job?
 
#43
#43
Fulmer never should have been hired. He is in completely over his head. The only thing he is good at in this role is buttering up the boosters. Bleedin' Orange does nothing to qualify someone for this role.
 
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#44
#44
Volfan76 said:
We all know how Butch Jones is screwing UT by not seeking real employment. My discussion point is...can Pruitt be demoted to DC rather than fired if Fulmer was to hire an offensive minded head coach like Freeze. Same with Ainsley to DB. Would be a great start on a coaching staff and UT would at least get some return on their investment. Question is can it be done? 2nd question...do they negate their contract if they refuse to do it?
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Come on man....., no HC is going to take a step back while you bring in another HC. Talk about a divided team. Isn't Pruitt basically running the D that cant adjust to a slant pass.
 
#45
#45
Volfan76 said:
We all know how Butch Jones is screwing UT by not seeking real employment. My discussion point is...can Pruitt be demoted to DC rather than fired if Fulmer was to hire an offensive minded head coach like Freeze. Same with Ainsley to DB. Would be a great start on a coaching staff and UT would at least get some return on their investment. Question is can it be done? 2nd question...do they negate their contract if they refuse to do it?
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Whats killing me about the Butch situation, is Bielema and Arky are currently in a lawsuit about Arky not paying 7 million dollars due to him because Arky feels that he has not seeked high paying similar employment to cut down on what Arkansas owes him......and he was a working for the Patriots (dont know what position, but he had to make more than Butch). Arkansas had a backbone to stand up for the program which is what UT should have done with Butch, but they just let Butch be in a position that most coaches cut their teeth at in the college level or similar to it. If that's not an argument for not seeking comparable employment, then I dont know what is.
 
#46
#46
volsrock09 said:
Whats killing me about the Butch situation, is Bielema and Arky are currently in a lawsuit about Arky not paying 7 million dollars due to him because Arky feels that he has not seeked high paying similar employment to cut down on what Arkansas owes him......and he was a working for the Patriots (dont know what position, but he had to make more than Butch). Arkansas had a backbone to stand up for the program which is what UT should have done with Butch, but they just let Butch be in a position that most coaches cut their teeth at in the college level or similar to it. If that's not an argument for not seeking comparable employment, then I dont know what is.
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I dont have any information, but I'm guessing the legal advice to UT is that Butch can make the case that the Title IX lawsuit is preventing him from getting hired. I will be willing to bet that he is hired somewhere before Feb when his contract expires though. I wonder if that would open the door to file suit against Jones to repay.
 
#47
#47
I bet Pruitt's contract is laden with gems like "No Mitigation: Check here for 'aight ___"
 
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#49
#49
PF has access to some of the best legal minds to deal with contractual issues. The idea he's typing every letter and dotting (I)s himself is silly. The agent puts forward what their client expects, UTAD team comes back with a counter offer, and so it goes until they have an agreement. The contract is most likely treated like they do union labor contracts. One side comes to the table with a bag of money and with each requirement for compensation or benefits the cost is subtracted from the bag. If the bag gets emptied before all the requirements by labor are met then negotiations happen where horse trades occur until labor gets what they are willing to settle for or the bag of money is increased, or a strike is forced or some of all those take place until they have an agreement they can live with, it's not like most people think it is.
 
#50
#50
Fulmer is inept when it comes to contracts.

Examples -- Barnes raise-extension (Fulmer was uninformed about UCLA refusal to pay buyouts which had been reported during UCLA coaching search prior to Barnes involvement with that job.

Fulmer extension and raise for Pruitt heading into Covid season - where the heck was the guy who got beat by Georgia State and BYU going to go?
 
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