TN's Decades of Failures Explained

#26
#26
West Vol said:
He had a losing record to over half the coaches in the SEC at the time he was fired. His time was up.
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So did Majors almost a decade into his stint, but then overcame. So, did Mack Brown, and then overcame. Etc. Etc. Etc.
BTW, selective stats are a dime a dozen.
 
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#29
#29
Tennessee in a world where almost every SEC program takes football seriously isn't a great job. Phil Fulmer held the line above where it seems another coach could. We are always going to be staring down better talent when we play UGA, Bama and Florida. Ultimately Fulmer was keeping us competitive with a chance to win the division once every 3 to 4 years, basically the boom or bust Auburn strategy. So far that has been the best anyone else has come up with. That is the reality. Fulmer didn't get complacent or lose it. UGA quit sucking at football, Bama quit getting caught cheating. That is what changed. No other coach has been able to recruit nationally, especially the Carolinas at the level needed to keep Tennessee competitive that Fulmer did. Having a hall of fame coach offer you a scholarship still had cache. His firing left a vacuum that eventually Clemson has filled. Those National Championship teams in Clemson could have been in slightly lighter shade of orange.
 
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#31
#31
volmoon said:
Give a star to the petty.

Back to the main point. Firing Fulmer has proven to be the worst mistake in a generation fo Tennessee football. Period.
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He needed to go. It was pathetic at the end. The replacement is what has been the problem. Pick Gary Patterson over Kiffin and we have got some hardware to show for the last decade. Or, if we still pick Kiffin, our Kippy in charge for a year when he leaves and then hire a real coach, then we aren’t cratering the program with Dooley, who had a losing record at Louisiana Tech. Or don’t hire Dave Hart, fresh off a cheating scandal at FSU and expect things to go well. Don’t let him wait until the last minute to fire Dooley, run and embarrassment of a search, and then panic hire Butch. Or don’t let Butch coach past 2015 and get a real coach in here set up with a ton of talent to get the ball rolling on his tenure. Or don’t hire Currie despite everyone at UT hating him during his previous stay and everyone at Kansas State, including their hall of fame coach saying they hate him. Or don’t let him hire an ******* that was only good at Rutgers for a short time before falling off badly and has been mired by scandals ever since. Or don’t let Currie run around the country interviewing coaches without our blessing and further embarrassing the program.

A preposterous series of idiotic decisions got us to this point. The inevitable firing of Fulmer had little to do with it.
 
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#32
#32
VFL-82-JP said:
Dude.

Fulmer's last six years: 49-27. That's a .645 win rate. Two SEC East titles. Three different 10-win seasons, and another with 9 wins. Here, I'll bold the parts you seem to be missing:
  • 2003 -- 10-3 (6-2 in SEC)
  • 2004 -- 10-3 (7-1 in SEC) -- SEC-East champ -- Cotton Bowl victor (over #22 A&M)
  • 2005 -- 5-6 (3-5 in SEC)
  • 2006 -- 9-4 (5-3 in SEC)
  • 2007 -- 10-4 (6-2 in SEC) -- SEC-East champ -- Outback Bowl victor (over #18 Wisconsin)
  • 2008 -- 5-7 (3-5 in SEC)
Just to remind you: our very best seasons over the past 12 years since Fulmer left, our VERY best, were a couple of 9-win seasons under Butch. But nine or ten wins was the _norm_ with Fulmer. Even in those last six seasons.

Yes, Phillip got complacent. But even a complacent Fulmer is better than anything we've done since.

Anyone who thinks Fulmer has been our problem, or was even our first problem, is a fool. Getting rid of him was our first problem.

As for the rest of your post, I couldn't get past that first bone-headed statement. So I didn't read any more.

Go Vols!
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Correct, that is what so many can’t seem to grasp. Fulmer’s worst years were better than this crap
 
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#33
#33
Chitlin&theDude said:
1) Fulmer. Great coach, great guy but he was retained too long. The SEC and good teams clearly passed him by. (To the deniers- his record his last 6 years) Kiffin inherited an empty cupboard.
2) Kiffin. The right idea but a bad decision who napalmed the program. Terrible decision not putting in a contractual safe guard to leave after only one year.
3) Brown. Hindsight has proven keeping him for a year as interim coach would have been advantageous and probably program saving.
4) Dooley. Maybe to worst hire ever. A loser from LA Tech. Did nothing for 3 years- recruiting was a joke. He solidified our culture of losing.
5) Jones. Another awful hire who wasn't nearly big enough for the job. Could not analyze or develop talent.
6) Pruitt. Year 3- are we improving? Good coordinator. Knows the coference and game, but is he smart enough to be a CEO?

What's a commonality they all have besides losing to our rivals? It's our fundamental problem- ineffective leadership above them at the highest levels. How many visionless and unprepared ADs have we had? More importantly, how many clueless presidents and chancellors have we had? And above them is the BODs. There's our problem. Until they want stop making politically correct decisions (ie Davenport) and understand football's economic AND academic impact (ie Alabama) our football program will be on loop.
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This is my biggest concern and really was my greatest concern when we hired him. That was basically because I didn’t feel that butch was an intelligent guy. Butch wasn’t intelligent enough to make observations fans were able to make. Such as playing Hurd over Kamara and always taking the proverbial foot off the gas when the offense was filling really well. A good example of that was the fan’s booing when he kicked a shirt field goal to end the half. At that point everyone recognized the lack of aggressiveness was costing us and yet instead of responding by realizing we were probably onto something...he instead said “ef them all”. So yes intelligence was something I was hoping for in a hire. It’s a very underrated quality for a head coach. When fulmer went after a life long bammer and a guy that has never been a head coach I was thinking he must have been incredible in an interview. Then I heard his introductory news conference. Not that characteristic or impressive imo. Anyway, it’s not going to workout for him and unfortunately we’ll just have no choice but to suffer through about 3 more crappy seasons. I could be wrong. But I’m not
 
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#34
#34
To me in a nutshell this is what should have happened, Fulmer should have been out as early as 2002, but by 2004 for sure. Spurrier should have been hired as I read an interview with him and he was asked if he would have taken the Tennessee job and he said that he would have loved to have that job but it was taken.

I know some on here despise him, but to me he can say whatever he wants as long as he can back it up and he was just about always able to back it up.
 
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#36
#36
We don't know what this season will end up looking like. Aside from the painful loss to Kentucky, it has so far gone the way many of us predicted (wins over USCe and Mizzou, losses to UGa and Bama). There's still a lot of football to be played.

What we do know so far is this. No coach in Tennessee's recent past, aside from Phillip Fulmer, has had a better start than Pruitt in his first two seasons. Not Butch, not Dooley, not Kiffin, not even Johnny Majors. It took Johnny to his fifth season to achieve a winning percentage (66.7%) higher than Pruitt got for us in his second season (61.5%). Phillip started faster, but of course he had a running start thanks to CJM.

In winning percentages, here's how it looks so far:

1603663119777.png

So let's give Coach Pruitt some time. Stop mouth-breathing over one unexpected loss (though we are all greatly disappointed by it), and give the man time to show us what he can do.

If we'd been half this impatient with Johnny Majors, he'd have been kicked to the curb long before he got to his good years, his championship years.

Let's be a little more patient. Good things can come when you show a little patience. Our own history teaches us that.


p.s. A .500 win rate this season will be the rough equivalent of a .615 win rate in a normal year, because we'd normally have three FCS cupcake games padding the stats.
 
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#37
#37
Lesson illustrated here: if you want to focus attention on the failures of UT upper management, don’t write a post like this.
 
#38
#38
West Vol said:
He needed to go. It was pathetic at the end. The replacement is what has been the problem. Pick Gary Patterson over Kiffin and we have got some hardware to show for the last decade. Or, if we still pick Kiffin, our Kippy in charge for a year when he leaves and then hire a real coach, then we aren’t cratering the program with Dooley, who had a losing record at Louisiana Tech. Or don’t hire Dave Hart, fresh off a cheating scandal at FSU and expect things to go well. Don’t let him wait until the last minute to fire Dooley, run and embarrassment of a search, and then panic hire Butch. Or don’t let Butch coach past 2015 and get a real coach in here set up with a ton of talent to get the ball rolling on his tenure. Or don’t hire Currie despite everyone at UT hating him during his previous stay and everyone at Kansas State, including their hall of fame coach saying they hate him. Or don’t let him hire an ******* that was only good at Rutgers for a short time before falling off badly and has been mired by scandals ever since. Or don’t let Currie run around the country interviewing coaches without our blessing and further embarrassing the program.

A preposterous series of idiotic decisions got us to this point. The inevitable firing of Fulmer had little to do with it.
Click to expand...
Seriously? By your own rationale, your last post is an oxymoron. Gary Patterson? The guy who the game has passed by?
Moving on.
 
#40
#40
Its getting to the point to where I feel like the failure for caring too much and following this clown show so closely over the last 10 years!
 
#41
#41
norrislakevol said:
Pruitt is learning on the job, but the rate at which he learns is way too slow for the vast majority of Vol fans, including myself. I'm certainly not calling for his job, but I'm tired of losing. Very tired.
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Wha....you don't like cornbread anymore? For shame.
 
#43
#43
volmoon said:
THANK YOU!

One of the dumbest, unfounded arguments for explaining the current Vol football dilemma begins with “Fulmer was“ “lazy,” “no longer relevant,” “left behind,” etc. For those who continue to make that argument, the athletic department at the other UT is also calling...Mack Brown, Rick Barnes.
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One also has to remember though that Bama and Georgia were nowhere close to the level they are now, Phil had about 10 years facing them when they were down. Timing is everything.
 
#44
#44
Delmar said:
One also has to remember though that Bama and Georgia were nowhere close to the level they are now, Phil had about 10 years facing them when they were down. Timing is everything.
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Those were down while we were up. It has flipped Drastically.

We had QB issues in 2005 and 2008. We also had Boyd lined up to come in for the 2009 season. Instead he started the trail to Clemson.

Nobody is pleased with the way things are going so far with JP. Too many blowouts to the 3 and then the losses to teams we just will never expect.

JG got Jones fired and he is giving his all to get JP fired too. JG has been too predictably inconsistent in the past. Can he change? If given the chance I sure hope so. I would like to see the next guys each given their fair shot instead and let the chips fall.
 
#45
#45
West Vol said:
He needed to go. It was pathetic at the end. The replacement is what has been the problem. Pick Gary Patterson over Kiffin and we have got some hardware to show for the last decade. Or, if we still pick Kiffin, our Kippy in charge for a year when he leaves and then hire a real coach, then we aren’t cratering the program with Dooley, who had a losing record at Louisiana Tech. Or don’t hire Dave Hart, fresh off a cheating scandal at FSU and expect things to go well. Don’t let him wait until the last minute to fire Dooley, run and embarrassment of a search, and then panic hire Butch. Or don’t let Butch coach past 2015 and get a real coach in here set up with a ton of talent to get the ball rolling on his tenure. Or don’t hire Currie despite everyone at UT hating him during his previous stay and everyone at Kansas State, including their hall of fame coach saying they hate him. Or don’t let him hire an ******* that was only good at Rutgers for a short time before falling off badly and has been mired by scandals ever since. Or don’t let Currie run around the country interviewing coaches without our blessing and further embarrassing the program.

A preposterous series of idiotic decisions got us to this point. The inevitable firing of Fulmer had little to do with it.
Click to expand...
Yep. Put the blame where it should be, right at those fools feet. It all went to hell after Dickey left.
 
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#46
#46
IMO, we underestimate how bad South Carolina, Clemson, and Georgia all were during the Fulmer run. This allowed us to clean up in recruiting in those states. Once they hired decent coaches, they all built walls (and made Mexico pay for them) around their state and our recruiting hasn't been as steadily effective since. All jmo, so tifwiw.
 
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#47
#47
VFL-82-JP said:
We don't know what this season will end up looking like. Aside from the painful loss to Kentucky, it has so far gone the way many of us predicted (wins over USCe and Mizzou, losses to UGa and Bama). There's still a lot of football to be played.

What we do know so far is this. No coach in Tennessee's recent past, aside from Phillip Fulmer, has had a better start than Pruitt in his first two seasons. Not Butch, not Dooley, not Kiffin, not even Johnny Majors. It took Johnny to his fifth season to achieve a winning percentage (66.7%) higher than Pruitt got for us in his second season (61.5%). Phillip started faster, but of course he had a running start thanks to CJM.

In winning percentages, here's how it looks so far:

View attachment 317865

So let's give Coach Pruitt some time. Stop mouth-breathing over one unexpected loss (though we are all greatly disappointed by it), and give the man time to show us what he can do.

If we'd been half this impatient with Johnny Majors, he'd have been kicked to the curb long before he got to his good years, his championship years.

Let's be a little more patient. Good things can come when you show a little patience. Our own history teaches us that.


p.s. A .500 win rate this season will be the rough equivalent of a .615 win rate in a normal year, because we'd normally have three FCS cupcake games padding the stats.
Click to expand...
It’s really not about his record to date, or accomplishments or lack of accomplishments to date. It’s about his approach. We don’t like it. We don’t want to watch or listen to it. Especially the approach to feed us #2 every game. We are demoralized by that recurring choice. We don’t want to watch that anymore. We’ve watched it for four years and we feel like we are just watching reruns every week. Give us anything else and we will get back onboard. Heck a walk on pulled from the Sigma Chi fraternity a few hours before the game would get us all excited and back into the program. But the current TV show that he’s providing us. Well it needs to be cancelled, or rewritten with a new lead character.
 
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#48
#48
VFL-82-JP said:
We don't know what this season will end up looking like. Aside from the painful loss to Kentucky, it has so far gone the way many of us predicted (wins over USCe and Mizzou, losses to UGa and Bama). There's still a lot of football to be played.

What we do know so far is this. No coach in Tennessee's recent past, aside from Phillip Fulmer, has had a better start than Pruitt in his first two seasons. Not Butch, not Dooley, not Kiffin, not even Johnny Majors. It took Johnny to his fifth season to achieve a winning percentage (66.7%) higher than Pruitt got for us in his second season (61.5%). Phillip started faster, but of course he had a running start thanks to CJM.

In winning percentages, here's how it looks so far:

View attachment 317865

So let's give Coach Pruitt some time. Stop mouth-breathing over one unexpected loss (though we are all greatly disappointed by it), and give the man time to show us what he can do.

If we'd been half this impatient with Johnny Majors, he'd have been kicked to the curb long before he got to his good years, his championship years.

Let's be a little more patient. Good things can come when you show a little patience. Our own history teaches us that.


p.s. A .500 win rate this season will be the rough equivalent of a .615 win rate in a normal year, because we'd normally have three FCS cupcake games padding the stats.
Click to expand...
You are a mental gymnast. None of those fun stats address the issues we are seeing this year. Remember, if you only go by stats, JG is a pretty good QB.
 
#49
#49
VFL-82-JP said:
Dude.

Fulmer's last six years: 49-27. That's a .645 win rate. Two SEC East titles. Three different 10-win seasons, and another with 9 wins. Here, I'll bold the parts you seem to be missing:
  • 2003 -- 10-3 (6-2 in SEC)
  • 2004 -- 10-3 (7-1 in SEC) -- SEC-East champ -- Cotton Bowl victor (over #22 A&M)
  • 2005 -- 5-6 (3-5 in SEC)
  • 2006 -- 9-4 (5-3 in SEC)
  • 2007 -- 10-4 (6-2 in SEC) -- SEC-East champ -- Outback Bowl victor (over #18 Wisconsin)
  • 2008 -- 5-7 (3-5 in SEC)
Just to remind you: our very best seasons over the past 12 years since Fulmer left, our VERY best, were a couple of 9-win seasons under Butch. But nine or ten wins was the _norm_ with Fulmer. Even in those last six seasons.

Yes, Phillip got complacent. But even a complacent Fulmer is better than anything we've done since.

Anyone who thinks Fulmer has been our problem, or was even our first problem, is a fool. Getting rid of him was our first problem.

As for the rest of your post, I couldn't get past that first bone-headed statement. So I didn't read any more.

Go Vols!
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Yeah, I'd kill to have maintained Fulmer's last 6 years these last 11.
 
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#50
#50
Chitlin&theDude said:
Smart guy who doesn't read, What was Fulmer's record against Tuberville, Saban, Spurrier, Richt, Meyer? I like Fulmer. He was good coach. But as you pointed out, in 05 things were quickly moving in the wrong direction.
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What is any coach’s record against Saban, Spurrier( at Florida), Meyer, Richt (during his early years)? Rarely were we not competitive against those great coaches and had opportunities to win. We aren’t even competitive in those games any longer
 
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