Recruiting Forum Football Talk II

[Leeleesteeth]

I love how the idiot armchair coaches like to bitch about how our WRs can't get "separation"...and yet when I watch replays there are guys running wide freaking open on every play...

They hear "football terms" on TV or look up crap on the web and act like they know something.

 

[vol9799]

i dont' think the record changes too terribly much, change at QB or not.

we don't have a miracle worker in the QB room, and i simply refused to belive that they're over there sitting on the worlds best kept secret.....and refusing to let him play because we like Jarrett too much to sit him.

the issue as i see it, for fans and media and their extrapolations is that there's this now overwhelming sentiment that the staff missed, whiffed and otherwise has failed to recruit and develop the position.

which really couldn't be further from the truth, if you're willing to understand the context of the QB spot at TN the past 3 years.....

the only QB we've recruited and signed with the intention of being 'the man' is harrison bailey....

Shrout was a body to add for depth and development, with the hope being that one day he MIGHT be a significant contributor or solid back up.

Maurer, much the same, the following year....

i think blaming the staff for eval, development, or recruiting in general in regards tot he QB position is a bit overreactionary and kinda lazy.

we did bring in two grad transfers, neither worked out. we went after a 3rd one, and lost that recruiting battle to you know who. so it's not a lack of awareness. it is, however, likely due in some way/shape/form to the fact that while JG may not have been the guy anyone on this staff "wanted" per se, he was a veteran, highly regarded kid that by all accounts had some talent to work with, and would/should be serviceable enough for 2-3 years to transition the position until we built depth, competition, and recruited.

so, in the end, you bring in two grad transfers, you recruit 2 kids, and none of them have been the answer, and the guy you inherited has turned out to be waaaaay more of a problem than you ever anticipated....and your hope for the immediate future is Harrison Bailey who is a true freshman that's completely hamstrung from a development standpoint entering is first season in college due to the shut down.

to that point, your entire 19 class missed out on that year 1 to year 2 offseason develoment that virtually everyone says is usually the biggest leap a class/team can make...and they missed it. the two QB's you brought in now having been around for at least a full cycle now, been in Chaney's sytem for a full season.....also missed that off season, and got robbed of the opportunity to compete with JG in spring/summer.....HB as well.

and while i won't go so far as to say there's NOTHING they could do about it, i don't think where we're at is the result of apathy, laziness, lack of effort on development or misplaced loyalty....i think for them to have been able to do something, truly do something, about our present situation, they'd of needed to be able to see/predict the future....

in short................a really large portion of our issues at QB are situationally driven....i won't say 100%....but you just can't discount all the happenings off the past 18 months, the past 6 in particular......

Good points, a few thoughts of my own:

- What I witnessed in person Saturday from the rest of the team, tells me team has no confidence in JG. If the team doesn't believe they can win with JG, then the QB will make a difference in the ultimate record because much of the rest of the team is good enough to finish 6-4 or 7-3 . That's the worst body language I've seen since Butch's final year.

- This staff/Pruitt still bear some responsibility for QB because 1) they attempted and failed to get more highly regarded QB than Shrout/Maurer on board & failed; and 2) regardless of what he does in practice, they have seen JG in games long enough to know what he is and they chose not to begin investing in other options last year (regardless of how limited those options would have been); and 3) they tolerated JG's insubordinate behavior in the AL game last year. I think all three of these factors put some responsibility on the staff.

- So on "what else could they do," my gripe is two-fold. First, if they ascribe to all of what you said above, then despite the PR implications, Pruitt needs to come out and say that to his team and to the fans. Losing either or both is going to endanger recruiting and the immediate future of the program. Instead though, the staff's actions and words continue to suggest they believe everything is ok with the status quo. Coach speak and poor-mouthing are part of the game, but trying to pretend reality isn't reality just insults everyone and risks the team/fans losing confidence. Second, why choose to continue to invest in the past vs the future. If the truth is "it makes no difference" to this year's record, then by default, expending that effort developing Bailey or one of the others for the future makes more sense than grinding JG into the ground.

In the end to me there's only a few things you cannot allow to happen:
- Can't lose the team
- Can't allow the recruiting class to unravel

To avoid either/both of these from happening the perception has to be that they're doing everything they can to fix the problem. Defending & starting JG without giving the other QB's even the appearance of a fair shot doesn't contribute to the desired perception. Firing the DL coach when other positions have routinely performed worse during their coaches' tenure also fails to create the desired perception. Right now, they aren't doing anything to control the narrative, they're in damage control mode and frankly they don't appear to be very good at it.

I don't want to replace Pruitt, but I won't blindly trust his coach-speak over my own eyes either. Saturday's evidence was too damning against his position.

 

[jakez4ut]

I love how the idiot armchair coaches like to bitch about how our WRs can't get "separation"...and yet when I watch replays there are guys running wide freaking open on every play...

except againt UGA. they did as good a job as i've seen at covering.

i think on the whole, the WR's have been pretty good this year, when given opportunities....maybe better sated, knowing who we lost in callaway and jennings, they've performed admirably in their abscence.....Keyton has had a couple of rough outings, but i still think he's got a bright future. Palmer has been good. Johnson has been good. hyatt has been good. for what they've asked of him, Velus Jones has been ok.....Tilman..i don't think we've seen enough sample size. and for the moment we got to see Wideman on the field, i liked what i saw from an athleticism standpoint.

 

[Paper_Towel]

I am in quarantine by the state department of health because someone (who they cannot name) thought they were around me on a day (they cannot recall) and that someone tested positive for Covid. If I violate the quarantine, then I am breaking my governors executive order which is being challenged in the state Supreme Court. In the meantime, the state department of health has my phone number and want to track my progress over the 14 day quarantine.

State Health Department keeps trying to call me to talk to me aka ask me three thousand questions.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

I live in an area that is considered a hot spot right now. Our community nursing home has multiple deaths and 80 percent infection of patients and staff. Area hospital with over 100 employee active cases and multiple hospitals with full capacity. A good friend just had funeral for mom and brother who both died of Covid. Community school has closed twice already this school year with multiple cases.

I believe they have gone to extreme, but I understand why they are doing it. I do not like it. If someone tested positive and I was in close contact, I would have preferred them to contact me. I would do the same.

Deleted

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

View attachment 316476

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

They hear "football terms" on TV or look up crap on the web and act like they know something.

Exactly...I like to see for myself what is going on..

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

They hear "football terms" on TV or look up crap on the web and act like they know something.

The new kewl smart term they like to throw around is "creative"

 

[jakez4ut]

Good points, a few thoughts of my own:
- I would have agreed with you on the record difference if I had not witnessed the rest of the team's body language in person Saturday. If the team doesn't believe they can win with JG because of the last 6 quarters of play, then it will make a difference. That's the worst body language I've seen since Butch's final year.
- The ways in which it seems to me this staff is still responsible for QB:

that's fine on the body language and overall mindset of the team. i don't really disagree.

just purely on football stuff, changing the QB doesn't solve the basic problem our offense has.....which is until we prove we can be balanced we become relatively easy to control as a game goes on, and we get very predictable situationally because we're in 2nd and 7+ a lot.

so our mindset may change, attitude may change, but that only lasts as long as the next series of 3 and outs or a turnover we forced on 3rd down because we're pressing..................

to me, not much has changed...our offensive line is the strength of this team, and we have good running backs. we absolutely need to be able to lean on the run game. that was true before the USCe game, and it's still true now.

the difference is the cat's out of the bag, again, in regards to our pass game......the route tree needs to grow some new branches, and we need to be able to get guys out of the box so we can be more effective on 1st down.

it's cliche has hell, but w/out jennings or a reliable TE target, the middle of the field has all but been abandonded....so we've given defnese 2 extra defenders on the left and right boundries..........

maybe that's why we suck agianst the slant on defense? we dont' do it at all in practice, so they never see it til Saturdays...lol.....

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

except againt UGA. they did as good a job as i've seen at covering.

i think on the whole, the WR's have been pretty good this year, when given opportunities....maybe better sated, knowing who we lost in callaway and jennings, they've performed admirably in their abscence.....Keyton has had a couple of rough outings, but i still think he's got a bright future. Palmer has been good. Johnson has been good. hyatt has been good. for what they've asked of him, Velus Jones has been ok.....Tilman..i don't think we've seen enough sample size. and for the moment we got to see Wideman on the field, i liked what i saw from an athleticism standpoint.

There were guys open against them too, if you can stomach it, go back and watch it. And people like to act like JG was under immediate pressure on all the horrid plays he made...nope....he hesitated.

 

[jakez4ut]

There were guys open against them too, if you can stomach it, go back and watch it. And people like to act lime JG was under immediate pressure on all the horrid plays he made...nope....he hesitated.

oh, yeah, we had guys get open. but uga did, overall, a really good job against us.

the difference was when the started winning 1st down on defense. that changed things a lot for us.

as for hte hesitation....well...that's been a thing for JG since 2018...the late delivery.....it's a problem.....and has been.

 

[KB5252]

oh, yeah, we had guys get open. but uga did, overall, a really good job against us.

the difference was when the started winning 1st down on defense. that changed things a lot for us.

as for hte hesitation....well...that's been a thing for JG since 2018...the late delivery.....it's a problem.....and has been.

It's not just his delivery, it's his decision making, there's a hiccup or a moment of hesitation, it's evident when he decides to run it too.

 

[KB5252]

I'm convinced JG's issues are purely psychological. I don't think the game has ever slowed down enough for him to process what he sees effectively.

 

[SmokinBob]

Freak’s annual post from FF
*****Why I hate the Alabama Crimson Tide

 

[BruinVol]

I'm convinced JG's issues are purely psychological. I don't think the game has ever slowed down enough for him to process what he sees effectively.

I think the game had been slowing down for him. He was making some check downs and in fact the throw over the middle just before the Second pick 6 was a great check down read.
the issue with him has always been he can’t get past the last bad play. It’s always there and ready to cause the next bad play. Front runner

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

oh, yeah, we had guys get open. but uga did, overall, a really good job against us.

the difference was when the started winning 1st down on defense. that changed things a lot for us.

as for hte hesitation....well...that's been a thing for JG since 2018...the late delivery.....it's a problem.....and has been.

I agree...I really think we could have beat them with solid QB play, and if the defense had caught the 4-5 ints Bennett threw right to them, and fell on the gift wrapped fumble that we didn't get either.

I don't understand why we weren't more prepared for the UGA DL shifts...the OL jumping caused a lot of problems.

 

[rjd970]

i am watching the 1994 Vols Bama game on ESPN right now and they just benched peyton freaking manning in the second quarter.

I forgot about that.

Replaced him with Brandon Stewart - true freshman.

That 1995 game though....was a thing of beauty. Domination from beginning to end.

 

[jakez4ut]

It's not just his delivery, it's his decision making, there's a hiccup or a moment of hesitation, it's evident when he decides to run it too.

somebody last year did a tape review of JG, i think it was Jordan Rogers, and in that review, he made specific commentary about making the right reads AND the timing of the throw.

and while JG has certainly made some head scratching decisions....the overall take from that review as that more times than not, JG was making the right read, based on formation and what the defense lined up to do, but that far too many times he was late with the delivery....some of that was due to that "hiccup" you mention, where he maybe double clutched, took an extra step or something before the throw, and some of it was just that he was late, period, in getting to that read....was also cited this was what has led to some of the sacks he's taken over the years.

i mean, the reason we've been given by the coaches for JG"s continued role as the starter has been his abilit to get in out of good/bad plays, making the correct reads....basicallly his overlal decision making and understanding of the offense.

and i'll say this, i do think one area he's improved upon from 2018 is what he does pre snap....i think he's much better at diagnosing what he sees from the defense than he used to be. that is not to say he's perfect.......obviously.....

it's the execution of all of it when live bullets are flying that has been his problem, and it's still the problem.....and they haven't found a QB yet that can compensate enough for JG's inability to warrant making the change.

so virtually everyone that i've seen break down his game says the same thing, be it a coach or an analyst, smart, generally good decision maker, knows the offense.....................just doesn't execute at the level expected given all those things.

to me, it's a classic "those who can, do. those who can't, teach"......i could see JG being a good coach one day....not sure what level, but i wouldn't be surprised to see him roaming some sideline in the future.

i think that's why JG is so good cominmg off the bench....he'd of been so much better off here had he been able to be a role player vs. "the man"....he can give you a few series....he can't give a season..................

 

[TheTimeIsNow]

I bet Maurer starts, last 2-3 drives. Pruitt puts JG back in and he leads us for our only score in the game. Pruitt will say JG gave us our best chance of winning. Rinse, repeat next game.

 

[Vols4us]

It's not just his delivery, it's his decision making, there's a hiccup or a moment of hesitation, it's evident when he decides to run it too.

Exactly. The sad part is it has been obvious to us as fans for years now. The coaches want to overlook it apparently. They make excuses for it, "it's not all on Jarrett...". Wrong. He analyzes what he sees poorly and slowly. He then compounds the problem by taking action on what he sees slowly. Dobbs was slow to grasp it as well, he just had the legs to get out of trouble and could feel pressure. By the time he was a senior he could read D's OK and could go through a couple progressions before getting out of there. Not JG, he comprehends nothing. He has no natural instincts for the position at all.

 

[jakez4ut]

I agree...I really think we could have beat them with solid QB play, and if the defense had caught the 4-5 ints Bennett threw right to them, and fell on the gift wrapped fumble that we didn't get either.

I don't understand why we weren't more prepared for the UGA DL shifts...the OL jumping caused a lot of problems.

now, i haven't watched every UGA game this season, but when i saw those shifts, it stood out to me as being something "different"...not sure, entirely, how much of that was the "norm" for them.............

UK did it to us last weekend some too.

 

[vol9799]

that's fine on the body language and overall mindset of the team. i don't really disagree.

just purely on football stuff, changing the QB doesn't solve the basic problem our offense has.....which is until we prove we can be balanced we become relatively easy to control as a game goes on, and we get very predictable situationally because we're in 2nd and 7+ a lot.

so our mindset may change, attitude may change, but that only lasts as long as the next series of 3 and outs or a turnover we forced on 3rd down because we're pressing..................

to me, not much has changed...our offensive line is the strength of this team, and we have good running backs. we absolutely need to be able to lean on the run game. that was true before the USCe game, and it's still true now.

the difference is the cat's out of the bag, again, in regards to our pass game......the route tree needs to grow some new branches, and we need to be able to get guys out of the box so we can be more effective on 1st down.

it's cliche has hell, but w/out jennings or a reliable TE target, the middle of the field has all but been abandonded....so we've given defnese 2 extra defenders on the left and right boundries..........

maybe that's why we suck agianst the slant on defense? we dont' do it at all in practice, so they never see it til Saturdays...lol.....

Agree completely on gameplan. Why Chaney didn't focus on creative ways to run the ball and keep UK off guard in the 2nd half blew my mind. Get the QB back under center; run a two back set; maximize the benefit of play-action and quit "playing tempo". JC did a terrible job of playing to our strengths that half.

 

[Orangeredblooded]

Freak’s annual post from FF
*****Why I hate the Alabama Crimson Tide

I look forward to that every year before we play bama.

 

[butchna]

Well
Well
Well

@butchna loses

Was his SCHOLARSHIP yanked? If not, neither one does. You keep messing this up.

lol

lol

lol

 

[jakez4ut]

Agree completely on gameplan. Why Chaney didn't focus on creative ways to run the ball and keep UK off guard in the 2nd half blew my mind. Get the QB back under center; run a two back set; maximize the benefit of play-action and quit "playing tempo". JC did a terrible job of playing to our strengths that half.

i've never gotten the feeling Chaney was a "scheme you up" type of guy, more of an "we're gonna out execute you" type of guy. he's a little different from a lot of OC's in that he's never really been married to any particular style of offense, and has generally tailored it to what skill sets best match.

and for this roster, play action off the run game....is the right way to go.

we just don't execute worth a poo poo....now you can pick on some play calling if you want, i won't necessarily argue. but we aren't playing well enough offensively for the play caller to "call" his way out of a loss....