Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson are CLEARLY the 2 best QBs in the 2018 NFL Draft

#926
#926
butchna said:
It’s not waffling. It’s admitting you don’t KNOW the future. And you’re not popular and your threads suck. But people like ******* with you and your clown schtick... that DECLARATIVE enough? He’s a good, promising QB. He’s nowhere close to GREAT status.
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If you are not willing to make a declarative stance in evaluating a player then shut up. Waffling is not interesting. Obviously anybody can say one thing now but say they choose to change their mind at a later date.

And LOL @ you catching feelings over the word "popular". As Jay-Z once said: "men lie, women lie, numbers don't."
 
#927
#927
butchna said:
You drive in a circle. Deep down you know you’re full of ****.
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bamawriter said:
There's really no point, because your argument contradicts itself.
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Actually no. Debating is very simple. One person makes a point then the other person counters it. This goes on until one person essentially admits defeat without saying so in one of two ways: (1) they stop posting all together; or (2) they change the subject to something else (aka the classic strawman argument).

We have been arguing for a very long time now about how severe Kaaya's injury was and what impact it had on his career. I have been arguing that it was extremely severe (what spinal surgery isn't) and that it is the main reason he isn't on a roster right now. You guys have been debating me primarily on these two points. You have tried over and over again to not only diminish the severity of his injury but also argued that he is out of the league because of his talent moreso than this injury.

After going at it for several pages now on these points, @bamawriter decided to switch it up and instead of debating Kaaya's injury went back to my evaluation of Kaaya's ability and shifted the focus to that. That is a classic admission of defeat when debating someone. I am not the one who has been waffling and shifting the debate. I have been extremely consistent and have countered all the arguments that have been made thus far that have tried to diminish the severity of this spinal surgery.
 
#928
#928
n_huffhines said:
Great? I wouldn't call him great yet. He looks really good, but we've seen young QB's have longer runs than this and flame out.

I was high on Allen with the eye test, but his accuracy numbers really soured me on him. Despite his recent success, his career completion % is still below 59%. I need to see him do it longer, but he's always certainly looked the part. Great QB's beat Belichick and he's averaging 13 ppg against New England. Let's see him do a little better than that before we call him "great".
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Greatness is easy to see very early. The only reason Allen's stats were poor in college and mediocre over his first 2 NFL seasons is because the talent alongside him on offense was so poor. Stats are just as much a product of who the QB has around him as much as his own abilities. Now Allen finally has good talent around him and the box scores are finally starting to match his talent.

Bet against Josh Allen at your own risk. He's got the talent level to be the GREATEST QB OF ALL-TIME.
 
#930
#930
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Greatness is easy to see very early. The only reason Allen's stats were poor in college and mediocre over his first 2 NFL seasons is because the talent alongside him on offense was so poor. Stats are just as much a product of who the QB has around him as much as his own abilities. Now Allen finally has good talent around him and the box scores are finally starting to match his talent.

Bet against Josh Allen at your own risk. He's got the talent level to be the GREATEST QB OF ALL-TIME.
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There is a difference between being a great talent and being great. I thought he was a great talent at Wyoming, like I said. That's not the same thing as being an NFL great. Albert Haynesworth was an all-time great talent but he was not an NFL great.
 
#931
#931
n_huffhines said:
There is a difference between being a great talent and being great. I thought he was a great talent at Wyoming, like I said. That's not the same thing as being an NFL great. Albert Haynesworth was an all-time great talent but he was not an NFL great.
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True. This is where intangibles and work ethic come into play. Josh Allen has great intangibles and work ethic. As long as he stays healthy, he will be one of the 2-3 best QBs in the NFL for the next decade or so.
 
#933
#933
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Stop with the waffling. I actually take a solid stance on players which is why threads like this one are so popular. Don't give me these caveats. Be declarative.

Is Josh Allen a great QB or not? Simple yes or no.
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Did you seriously just say that to someone else, Mr. "My Prediction didn't work out because of an entire backstory I created out of thin air"?
 
#934
#934
n_huffhines said:
How do you know this?
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Listening to guys like Chris Simms in the media that spent time with Allen in the off-season and got to know him personally. Also listening to interviews from his teammates and coaches.

Look at the Dwayne Haskins situation right now in Washington. One of the reasons he was benched along with his poor play was the fact his teammates and coaches felt he had poor work ethic.

The work ethic of QBs gets identified pretty quickly by those around them. Its hard to fake being the first guy in the facility and the last guy out. Word comes out pretty quickly about who is working hard and who isn't.
 
#936
#936
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
If you are not willing to make a declarative stance in evaluating a player then shut up. Waffling is not interesting. Obviously anybody can say one thing now but say they choose to change their mind at a later date.

And LOL @ you catching feelings over the word "popular". As Jay-Z once said: "men lie, women lie, numbers don't."
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You’re your own cartoon. I’ll talk as much as I want. Not making grandiose declarations is not waffling. That’s your contrived clown philosophy which doesn’t make you interesting...it makes you pathetic. I feel sorry for you but I want you to keep going because it’s a spectacle.
 
#939
#939
bamawriter said:
You don't even know what the specific surgery was, and yet you're entire explanation for why Kaaya is out of the league rests upon that exact piece of information.
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It was SPINAL surgery. No more information is needed. Doctors don't just cut into your spine for no reason.
 
#940
#940
VolsSportsFan said:
That's literally the only part of the story you didn't. Everything else around it is complete fiction by you.
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What else have I stated as fact? I said he had surgery on his spine in September 2018 and has essentially been out of the league ever since.

You guys are the ones who have kept trying to act like he just had a sprained ankle and the injury has played no part in why he isn't in the league anymore.
 
#941
#941
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
It was SPINAL surgery. No more information is needed. Doctors don't just cut into your spine for no reason.
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There are multiple types of spinal surgery that really aren't big deals. I can guarantee that he didn't have any kind of fusion, as he wouldn't even be given a physical 5 months later, let alone pass it.
 
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#943
#943
bamawriter said:
There are multiple types of spinal surgery that really aren't big deals. I can guarantee that he didn't have any kind of fusion, as he wouldn't even be given a physical 5 months later, let alone pass it.
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And how would you know what is a serious spinal surgery and what isn't? You a doctor in addition to being a journalist?

Also I know you kept ignoring this point but Dak Prescott is projected to be healthy from his foot snapping in half in 4-6 months. Is it your medical opinion doctor that his injury isn't that serious since he might be declared healthy enough to pass a physical in around 5 months?
 
#944
#944
bamawriter said:
But that's completely false. He has been out of the league since March of 2019. He was claimed by the Bengals after his surgery.
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Go back and read my post a little more closely this time. I said he has "essentially been out of the league ever since." I used the word ESSENTIALLY on purpose because of that one month he was on the Bengals books. If I said "he's been out of the league ever since" then you would be justified in making this point. The word "essentially" is a signal that September 2018 wasn't the absolute date.

As a journalist I assumed grammar would be your strong suit.
 
#946
#946
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Go back and read my post a little more closely this time. I said he has "essentially been out of the league ever since." I used the word ESSENTIALLY on purpose because of that one month he was on the Bengals books.
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Yes. You couched your bull**** claim with the word "essentially" hoping that no one would notice that it is, in fact, bull****. Sorry to disappoint.

If I said "he's been out of the league ever since" then you would be justified in making this point. The word "essentially" is a signal that September 2018 wasn't the absolute date.
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More bull****. He was still in the league in March of '19. And not "essentially" in the league, but actually in the league.

As a journalist I assumed grammar would be your strong suit.
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As a bull**** artist, bull**** is quite clearly your strong suit.
 
#947
#947
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
What else have I stated as fact? I said he had surgery on his spine in September 2018 and has essentially been out of the league ever since.

You guys are the ones who have kept trying to act like he just had a sprained ankle and the injury has played no part in why he isn't in the league anymore.
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See this is the infamous D4H weasel spin.

You've spent pages here pushing the narrative that his spinal injury/surgery is THE reason he isn't in the league anymore. When you are pressed for details you just keep replying with your own personal credulity about how a spinal surgery by default has to be some career altering event....which isn't a valid reason. Arguing from ignorance is a fallacy and a pretty basic one.

Whether the injury/surgery has anything to do with him not being in the NFL anymore is 100% pure speculation. There's zero to "strongly suggest" it is; what is strongly suggested is that he wasn't good enough before the surgery and he still isn't after.
 
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#948
#948
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
And how would you know what is a serious spinal surgery and what isn't? You a doctor in addition to being a journalist?

Also I know you kept ignoring this point but Dak Prescott is projected to be healthy from his foot snapping in half in 4-6 months. Is it your medical opinion doctor that his injury isn't that serious since he might be declared healthy enough to pass a physical in around 5 months?
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What do YOU know about it? You're the only running around screaming about the surgery he had HAS to be have been super serious, even though you have zero evidence to back it up.
 
#949
#949
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
It was SPINAL surgery. No more information is needed. Doctors don't just cut into your spine for no reason.
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Um yes....there is. Cutting into your spine is serious in the sense that any surgery on any major part of the body is serious by default, but there are still vastly different levels of risk and seriousness. A heart valve replacement surgery is serious because it's your heart, but compared to quadruple bypass it's pretty routine.

You continuing to push this narrative is hilariously stupid.
 
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