Next gen console power (PS5 and Xbox Series X)

[Aesius]

Just to play devil's advocate, you could swap out GPUs or RAM in a matter of seconds, just put an access door directly above those parts. I was doing that when I was 10 and kids now are infinitely smarter than I was at that age. Now I’m talking proprietary Sony/MS parts, not something you could yank out of a PC or laptop, sort or like what MS has done with their add on hard drives for Series X. Easy plug and play upgrades, one maybe two steps. You’re right though, they’d love to keep double dipping with these v2.0 consoles, but at some point don’t you think that they will work the numbers where instead of 20% of users upgrading their console for 500 bucks they can get 75% of users to buy both a GPU and a RAM upgrade separately at a total cost of say $350 and come out way ahead? I’m just spitballing ideas, not saying anyone is right or wrong.

I guess that's possible but it would be an engineering feat. Consoles are designed with specific GPU sizes, thermals, connectivity, cooling, etc., in mind. So the new GPU would have to be almost identical in many ways except for performance to work. Plus then you would be bottlenecked by the CPU. Finally the cost would be enormous, as few people would bother so they couldn't produce/buy them in bulk needed to lower costs, and current GPU prices for PCs are more expensive than the consoles themselves.

I think to the average consumer/console gamer, it's much easier and simpler to just go out and buy a PS5 Pro in 2023/2024 or whatever than to try and put a new GPU into their console. Obviously it's a moot point because it's not possible on the PS5 anyway, but the landscape could change dramatically for the PS6 (or maybe even the PS5 Pro could be modular itself).

 

[CubsFanTN]

I guess that's possible but it would be an engineering feat. Consoles are designed with specific GPU sizes, thermals, connectivity, cooling, etc., in mind. So the new GPU would have to be almost identical in many ways except for performance to work. Plus then you would be bottlenecked by the CPU. Finally the cost would be enormous, as few people would bother so they couldn't produce/buy them in bulk needed to lower costs, and current GPU prices for PCs are more expensive than the consoles themselves.

I think to the average consumer/console gamer, it's much easier and simpler to just go out and buy a PS5 Pro in 2023/2024 or whatever than to try and put a new GPU into their console. Obviously it's a moot point because it's not possible on the PS5 anyway, but the landscape could change dramatically for the PS6 (or maybe even the PS5 Pro could be modular itself).

You're probably right. It honestly doesn't make sense to me that people go whole hog on consoles (especially when they buy both consoles in the same cycle) when they could build a 10-year machine for the cost of 2 consoles. However, I have been building PCs a long time and continue to purchase at least one console per generation, so maybe it's not as crazy as I think it is.
I do think Sony and Microsoft will be in the business of custom built "consoles" at some point in the next 10-15 years, but the allure of the console isn't dead yet as witnessed by the instantaneous sell-out of PS5 and XSX.

 

[JCHateSteve]

You're probably right. It honestly doesn't make sense to me that people go whole hog on consoles (especially when they buy both consoles in the same cycle) when they could build a 10-year machine for the cost of 2 consoles. However, I have been building PCs a long time and continue to purchase at least one console per generation, so maybe it's not as crazy as I think it is.
I do think Sony and Microsoft will be in the business of custom built "consoles" at some point in the next 10-15 years, but the allure of the console isn't dead yet as witnessed by the instantaneous sell-out of PS5 and XSX.

I hear this claim a lot. I've yet to find a build that will let me play AAA games for 10 years for a grand. I dropped 1500 on one five years ago and I need to replace my gpu within the next year and I doubt my cpu will work for another 5. If you had a $1000 dollar budget, what parts would you use? Maybe I'm just using the wrong components.

 

[CubsFanTN]

I hear this claim a lot. I've yet to find a build that will let me play AAA games for 10 years for a grand. I dropped 1500 on one five years ago and I need to replace my gpu within the next year and I doubt my cpu will work for another 5. If you had a $1000 dollar budget, what parts would you use? Maybe I'm just using the wrong components.

I could put together an i5 10400 and RX 580 or GTX 1660 with everything but a monitor (you don't get a monitor/tv with a console, right?) for $1000-1100. The caveat is PC games become increasingly more demanding every year while console games don't. You'll clearly have to plunk down more money for a PC that will keep up with the increasing power demands of PC games, but you can spend a grand and play games at current-gen console quality for 10 years.

 

[JCHateSteve]

I could put together an i5 10400 and RX 580 or GTX 1660 with everything but a monitor (you don't get a monitor/tv with a console, right?) for $1000-1100. The caveat is PC games become increasingly more demanding every year while console games don't. You'll clearly have to plunk down more money for a PC that will keep up with the increasing power demands of PC games, but you can spend a grand and play games at current-gen console quality for 10 years.

I wouldn't count a monitor in the build price. It's reasonable to assume people have a tv with an HDMI, at the very least. But, does your build price include an OS? A first timer builder will likely have to buy that.

The consoles run on the same hardware for long periods. But the games definitely get better over the course of a generation. In terms of quality your argument holds water, to a point, if you're strictly talking about graphics. Arguably the best game of this last generation is Breath of the Wild, and it runs on the the lowest spec machine available though. The PC you describe will run cross platform games and the best PC games for a year or two. After that you won't get many of the best consoles games (due to exclusivity) and increasingly fewer of the AAA PC games. That's a lot to sacrifice.

I don't generally buy both consoles either. But I don't think that's really the norm. Console generations don't tend to last 10 years. So you'll run into that in the last quarter of the 10 years period. Not to mention all of this assumes none of your components fail, which is far from given. I tried going full pc once and felt like I missed most of the generation.

The funny thing is, I have to concede that your technically correct, within some very narrow parameters. But there's are some pretty big caveats too. Not the least of which is that no one who really enjoys gaming is going to be satisfied with that machine for 10 years. They'd be lucky to get 5. Cost has never been a strong point in favor of pc gaming.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

I wouldn't count a monitor in the build price. It's reasonable to assume people have a tv with an HDMI, at the very least. But, does your build price include an OS? A first timer builder will likely have to buy that.

The consoles run on the same hardware for long periods. But the games definitely get better over the course of a generation. In terms of quality your argument holds water, to a point, if you're strictly talking about graphics. Arguably the best game of this last generation is Breath of the Wild, and it runs on the the lowest spec machine available though. The PC you describe will run cross platform games and the best PC games for a year or two. After that you won't get many of the best consoles games (due to exclusivity) and increasingly fewer of the AAA PC games. That's a lot to sacrifice.

I don't generally buy both consoles either. But I don't think that's really the norm. Console generations don't tend to last 10 years. So you'll run into that in the last quarter of the 10 years period. Not to mention all of this assumes none of your components fail, which is far from given. I tried going full pc once and felt like I missed most of the generation.

The funny thing is, I have to concede that your technically correct, within some very narrow parameters. But there's are some pretty big caveats too. Not the least of which is that no one who really enjoys gaming is going to be satisfied with that machine for 10 years. They'd be lucky to get 5. Cost has never been a strong point in favor of pc gaming.

My biggest issue with PC gaming is it doesn't really have a gaming identity beyond the tech. Back when I was into PC in the 90's and early 2000's, it felt like it's own unique platform with a lot of great games either completely exclusive or versions so superior you'd be nuts to play them on console. Back then it had Doom, Quake, Wolfenstein, Dark Forces, X-Wing vs Tie Fighter, Jedi Academy, Fallout, Duke Nukem, Wing Commander, King's Quest, Hexxen, Descent, Prince of Persia, MDK, Everquest, the early Elder Scrolls games, Mech Warrior, all the great sports simulators, all the great Sierra and Lucas Arts adventure games, etc. Now PC gaming is basically where you go to play console games on steroids.

 

[JCHateSteve]

My biggest issue with PC gaming is it doesn't really have a gaming identity beyond the tech. Back when I was into PC in the 90's and early 2000's, it felt like it's own unique platform with a lot of great games either completely exclusive or versions so superior you'd be nuts to play them on console. Back then it had Doom, Quake, Wolfenstein, Dark Forces, X-Wing vs Tie Fighter, Jedi Academy, Fallout, Duke Nukem, Wing Commander, King's Quest, Hexxen, Descent, Prince of Persia, MDK, Everquest, the early Elder Scrolls games, Mech Warrior, all the great sports simulators, all the great Sierra and Lucas Arts adventure games, etc. Now PC gaming is basically where you go to play console games on steroids.

There are still some great PC games out there. They often don't get the attention they deserve because the market is so focused on the console. The RTS is still best on PC as is VR. But yeah, they've lost a lot of the exclusivity they once had. I keep hearing how consoles are on borrowed time. But from what I see the market is moving toward console and mobile. To me that golden age of PC gaming ended with the 360/PS3 generation. I keep a custom rig, but I stopped worrying about being on the bleeding edge long ago.

 

[CubsFanTN]

@JCHateSteve I will admit the biggest difference between PC and consoles is that you typically buy a PC hoping that nothing will push it's limits for as long as possible while you hope with a console that developers will push those limits sooner rather than later. That means people will typically go over budget trying to get maximum longevity. But yes, you certainly can build a PC that will outperform the current gen of consoles for roughly twice the price for roughly the console's lifespan. I also believe that buying a $500 GPU upgrade and $100 RAM upgrade is a significantly better investment than going from, say, PS4 to PS4 pro.
Ultimately it's more of a theory about the reasonably priced console-killer PC because PCs are, as I'm sure you know, a money pit. Over the course of 5-7 years it's easy to put the dollar equivalent of 2 or 3 new consoles into your rig. While I do stand by the fact that it's doable, in all reality it's probably not likely.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

@JCHateSteve I will admit the biggest difference between PC and consoles is that you typically buy a PC hoping that nothing will push it's limits for as long as possible while you hope with a console that developers will push those limits sooner rather than later. That means people will typically go over budget trying to get maximum longevity. But yes, you certainly can build a PC that will outperform the current gen of consoles for roughly twice the price for roughly the console's lifespan. I also believe that buying a $500 GPU upgrade and $100 RAM upgrade is a significantly better investment than going from, say, PS4 to PS4 pro.
Ultimately it's more of a theory about the reasonably priced console-killer PC because PCs are, as I'm sure you know, a money pit. Over the course of 5-7 years it's easy to put the dollar equivalent of 2 or 3 new consoles into your rig. While I do stand by the fact that it's doable, in all reality it's probably not likely.

I really hope the whole mid-gen upgrade path with consoles doesn't happen again. I feel like it was done primarily because A.) last gen consoles came in severely underpowered compared generational leaps in years prior and B.) The advent of 4K TV's sort of mandated that better performing consoles be made available.

 

[Aesius]

I really hope the whole mid-gen upgrade path with consoles doesn't happen again. I feel like it was done primarily because A.) last gen consoles came in severely underpowered compared generational leaps in years prior and B.) The advent of 4K TV's sort of mandated that better performing consoles be made available.

It's interesting because PS4/XB1 were definitely underpowered and yet next-gen games don't look that different despite those consoles being significantly more powerful. I feel like graphically we have stagnated. I fired up Infamous Second Son the other day and it still looks amazing. The chase for 4K was dumb. 4K is extremely expensive computationally and it's really just a marketing gimmick for console gamers. How many gamers can really tell the difference between 1080p with good AA, 1440p, and 4K from their couches? And yet 1080p would make it possible to crank the FPS, textures, lighting, etc.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

It's interesting because PS4/XB1 were definitely underpowered and yet next-gen games don't look that different despite those consoles being significantly more powerful. I feel like graphically we have stagnated. I fired up Infamous Second Son the other day and it still looks amazing. The chase for 4K was dumb. 4K is extremely expensive computationally and it's really just a marketing gimmick for console gamers. How many gamers can really tell the difference between 1080p with good AA, 1440p, and 4K from their couches? And yet 1080p would make it possible to crank the FPS, textures, lighting, etc.

Oh I agree 100% "Native 4K" is without a doubt THE most overblown buzzword in gaming! The performance cost that native 4K brings is too expensive to make it worth it. Games like Horizon Zero Dawn, Spiderman, and Days Gone utilize checkerboard 4K rendering and they look absolutely beautiful and sharp! I'm perfectly fine if next gen games continue to utilize these kinds of rendering techniques and put the extra horsepower in other areas like ray tracing, framerate, AI, better textures, better animation, etc.

 

[JCHateSteve]

@JCHateSteve I will admit the biggest difference between PC and consoles is that you typically buy a PC hoping that nothing will push it's limits for as long as possible while you hope with a console that developers will push those limits sooner rather than later. That means people will typically go over budget trying to get maximum longevity. But yes, you certainly can build a PC that will outperform the current gen of consoles for roughly twice the price for roughly the console's lifespan. I also believe that buying a $500 GPU upgrade and $100 RAM upgrade is a significantly better investment than going from, say, PS4 to PS4 pro.
Ultimately it's more of a theory about the reasonably priced console-killer PC because PCs are, as I'm sure you know, a money pit. Over the course of 5-7 years it's easy to put the dollar equivalent of 2 or 3 new consoles into your rig. While I do stand by the fact that it's doable, in all reality it's probably not likely.

Again, it depends on how you frame the argument. If by performance, you mean the quality of the graphics on individual games, yes it will. If by performance, you mean will it actually run the games I want to play on that platform for that whole timeframe, no it won't. To me the former doesn't mean a whole lot without the latter. Which means it's not a "10 year PC" at that price point.

For the record, I hate the mid gen console upgrade. I refuse to do it and hope it goes away. I tend to pick either PS or Xbox then buy the Nintendo offering at mid gen.

 

[CubsFanTN]

Again, it depends on how you frame the argument. If by performance, you mean the quality of the graphics on individual games, yes it will. If by performance, you mean will it actually run the games I want to play on that platform for that whole timeframe, no it won't. To me the former doesn't mean a whole lot without the latter. Which means it's not a "10 year PC" at that price point.

For the record, I hate the mid gen console upgrade. I refuse to do it and hope it goes away. I tend to pick either PS or Xbox then buy the Nintendo offering at mid gen.

I picked up the PS4 Pro the day it came out (already had the PS4) and it was buyer's remorse from the get go. I think it was $500 and they (GameStop) gave me two hundred towards it. The disc drive only worked intermittently after the first week and the graphical upgrade was pretty minimal, so I feel you on that.

 

[JCHateSteve]

I picked up the PS4 Pro the day it came out (already had the PS4) and it was buyer's remorse from the get go. I think it was $500 and they (GameStop) gave me two hundred towards it. The disc drive only worked intermittently after the first week and the graphical upgrade was pretty minimal, so I feel you on that.

I'm still rolling a regular PS4 purchased at the first price drop. That's usually where I end up buying. By then you used to have a pretty good idea who's going to win the generation. This gen seems different though. I don't think Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo are play the same game as one another anymore.

 

[Freak]

I couldn't care less about resolution, but I'm hanging my hat on framerate this console gen, assuming I don't cancel my preorders. On PC I always target framerate with my settings, regardless.

On paper it seems like the new consoles should outperform my aging GTX 1080, but I'm skeptical.

 

[zhangliao04]

Even that you have to be carful about. I had an intercooler fort one of my 360s. It staved off the red ring of death, but it killed the video output on the thing and made it unusable that way. I wish I could add liquid cooling to them like a pc.

Now that's weird. Why would liquid cooled affect the video output of the CPU of a 360? Helping to keep it cool should increase it's performance if anything. Not hurt it.

 

[JCHateSteve]

Now that's weird. Why would liquid cooled affect the video output of the CPU of a 360? Helping to keep it cool should increase it's performance if anything. Not hurt it.

I wish I could add liquid cooling to a console. The 360 intercooler wasn't liquid. It was an external fan accessory you could attach to the the back of the 360. It looked like this.

They pulled to much power and tended to kill components. In my case the AV out died. So the 360 still ran, but I had no picture. It was a common problem with them.

 

[oUTlaw]

I had that intercooler and went through 2 360s before realizing that was really the problem.

 

[YankeeVol]

I couldn't care less about resolution, but I'm hanging my hat on framerate this console gen, assuming I don't cancel my preorders. On PC I always target framerate with my settings, regardless.

On paper it seems like the new consoles should outperform my aging GTX 1080, but I'm skeptical.

I'll take the PS5 off of you.

 

[Freak]

I'll take the PS5 off of you.

I have two preordered, one for me and one for freak jr. If I decide to bail on them I'll let you know.

 

[zhangliao04]

It's interesting because PS4/XB1 were definitely underpowered and yet next-gen games don't look that different despite those consoles being significantly more powerful. I feel like graphically we have stagnated. I fired up Infamous Second Son the other day and it still looks amazing. The chase for 4K was dumb. 4K is extremely expensive computationally and it's really just a marketing gimmick for console gamers. How many gamers can really tell the difference between 1080p with good AA, 1440p, and 4K from their couches? And yet 1080p would make it possible to crank the FPS, textures, lighting, etc.

Personally, I game at 1440p because I have a 4K tv that I use for my gaming. No real reason other than it's a higher resolution, but doesn't tank FPS because it's bogging down my old CPU and GPU. I don't really care much about 4K unless it's a game that I know I can get 60+ FPS and then I just say "you know what...sure...let's do it". Elite Dangerous is one of those games that I do that with. Completely agree that 4K is the new gimmick. Ray Tracing is the next step, but even that feels small in most titles. New titles coming out like Cyberpunk 2077 will utilize it in a better way than other titles up until now so I think this is the generation that we finally see it blossom. Still, don't need 4K for that though

 

[zhangliao04]

I really hope the whole mid-gen upgrade path with consoles doesn't happen again. I feel like it was done primarily because A.) last gen consoles came in severely underpowered compared generational leaps in years prior and B.) The advent of 4K TV's sort of mandated that better performing consoles be made available.

I 1000% believe there will be a mid-gen upgrade for both consoles. PS5 Pro and Xbox Series Z or whatever.

 

[zhangliao04]

I couldn't care less about resolution, but I'm hanging my hat on framerate this console gen, assuming I don't cancel my preorders. On PC I always target framerate with my settings, regardless.

On paper it seems like the new consoles should outperform my aging GTX 1080, but I'm skeptical.

It should outperform, but depending on what you have as your CPU, I am going to go ahead and say your PC will be at least on par with these new consoles. If we didn't have ray tracing on, my 7 generation old i5 runs games at ultra just as well or almost as well as these consoles at 4K. Good ole 22nm technology right there lol.

 

[zhangliao04]

I wish I could add liquid cooling to a console. The 360 intercooler wasn't liquid. It was an external fan accessory you could attach to the the back of the 360. It looked like this.
View attachment 314356
They pulled to much power and tended to kill components. In my case the AV out died. So the 360 still ran, but I had no picture. It was a common problem with them.

Ah I remember that thing. Never bought one. Had RRoD once. Turned my 360 off and kept it off for a while. Turned it back on and it was fine.

 

[JCHateSteve]

I had that intercooler and went through 2 360s before realizing that was really the problem.

My first one "Red Ringed" on it's own. I stuck the intercooler on the second one only for it too kill that one in a new way (dead av port). It still ran, so I stopped up the vents with a towel and let it red ring. Then I sent it back in on warranty replacement and got a refurbished one from Microsoft. I then traded that and my games in on a PS3 and some of it's exclusives. That held me until I was ready to buy a PS4.