2020 Presidential Race

#51,656
#51,656
LouderVol said:
The siege isnt broken by maintaining the status quo. If anything that just maintains it longer.

If you want the siege to end you have to abandon both set of trenches and go the way you want to go instead of the way they want you to go.

All you a proposing to do is feed the meat grinder more bodies while the fat cats get fatter.
Click to expand...

When a third party candidate has the potential to draw voters away from the dems, I'll agree. It doesn't generally work that way (can't really remember when it has in fact); people left of center don't stray from the flock. Look at congressional votes and compare how often dems stray compared to the republicans. Most often when a dem strays, the vote is solid against the GOP and the dem is currying favor with a marginal base back at home. Trump couldn't even get a lot of reforms passed because he couldn't count on the GOP voting as a bloc while the dems just about always do. In the last couple of decades the country has become so polarized there's little chance of a moderate alternative, and I'd be very shocked if you see even an AOC or Bernie break ranks to the detriment of the dems.
 
#51,659
#51,659
AM64 said:
When a third party candidate has the potential to draw voters away from the dems, I'll agree. It doesn't generally work that way (can't really remember when it has in fact); people left of center don't stray from the flock. Look at congressional votes and compare how often dems stray compared to the republicans. Most often when a dem strays, the vote is solid against the GOP and the dem is currying favor with a marginal base back at home. Trump couldn't even get a lot of reforms passed because he couldn't count on the GOP voting as a bloc while the dems just about always do. In the last couple of decades the country has become so polarized there's little chance of a moderate alternative, and I'd be very shocked if you see even an AOC or Bernie break ranks to the detriment of the dems.
Click to expand...
The problem is the voting bloc. You dont fix that issue by doubling down on the voting bloc idea.

You fix it by getting people to vote the way they actually believe instead of pretending to fight the dems or reps. So yes that means more votes for AOC types, but it's less for the establishment.

It's the definition of crazy, keep voting two parties, and expecting different results.

Does a third,or fourth fifth or sixth,party make things perfect. Probably not.

But it would go a long way to fixing things. You could have honest conversations. The Dems couldnt hide the worst of the progressive stuff behind a moderate Biden. The racist right wouldnt be included with the typical Rs.

In order to define the country as red vs blue the parties have gotten so large that they have lost all definition. And as long as you define your vote as "not Hilary/Trump" you arent fixing your own side. Neither party comes anywhere close to actually representing half the nation.

Which is why voter turn out is laughably low.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rickyvol77 and AM64
#51,666
#51,666
LouderVol said:
The problem is the voting bloc. You dont fix that issue by doubling down on the voting bloc idea.

You fix it by getting people to vote the way they actually believe instead of pretending to fight the dems or reps. So yes that means more votes for AOC types, but it's less for the establishment.

It's the definition of crazy, keep voting two parties, and expecting different results.

Does a third,or fourth fifth or sixth,party make things perfect. Probably not.

But it would go a long way to fixing things. You could have honest conversations. The Dems couldnt hide the worst of the progressive stuff behind a moderate Biden. The racist right wouldnt be included with the typical Rs.

In order to define the country as red vs blue the parties have gotten so large that they have lost all definition. And as long as you define your vote as "not Hilary/Trump" you arent fixing your own side. Neither party comes anywhere close to actually representing half the nation.

Which is why voter turn out is laughably low.
Click to expand...

While I agree with a lot of what you said; everything comes down to two parties because it's a competition. Look to sports as an example. We weren't satisfied with some fun bowl games to cap off the football season; we had to turn them into stepping stones for a mythical national championship. It's the nature of society. We have a lust for a winner and a loser that just isn't satisfied by multiple parties. Even the governments built around a parliamentary process with multiple parties form coalitions so two sides can duke it out. I'd like a solution, but I absolutely don't believe one involving multiple parties is possible because we favor Type A personalities and shun the more tolerant, easy going types..
 
#51,668
#51,668
AM64 said:
Yeah, mostly that Trump and McCain apparently hated each other's guts ... and McCain was or became a RINO.

Edit: VolStrom said that a whole lot better than I did.
Click to expand...
Look at it this way. In the last 3 elections you have had McCain, Romney and Trump run for election. McCain and Romney lost because they were democrats in republican clothing. Trump was elected and will be re-elected in November. McCain is dead and when Romney comes up for re-election in a couple of years he will be toast too because of his vote to impeach Trump, nobody likes a traitor.
 
  • Like
Reactions: StarRaider and AM64
#51,670
#51,670
VolStrom said:
Look at it this way. In the last 3 elections you have had McCain, Romney and Trump run for election. McCain and Romney lost because they were democrats in republican clothing. Trump was elected and will be re-elected in November. McCain is dead and when Romney comes up for re-election in a couple of years he will be toast too because of his vote to impeach Trump, nobody likes a traitor.
Click to expand...
Yet you are casting a ballot for donald.....make it make sense.
 
#51,671
#51,671
VolinWayne said:
Reagan, Bush government officials endorse Trump, citing foreign policy accomplishments

Reagan, Bush government officials endorse Trump, citing foreign policy accomplishments
Click to expand...
titansvolsfaninga said:
oh brother.....
Click to expand...
Had to go back 50 years to find 70 people?
A group of 70 senior government officials who worked with various Republican administrations dating back to Richard Nixon endorsed President Trump for re-election on Monday, citing his accomplishments on foreign policy and national security.
 
#51,672
#51,672
Mick said:
Had to go back 50 years to find 70 people?
A group of 70 senior government officials who worked with various Republican administrations dating back to Richard Nixon endorsed President Trump for re-election on Monday, citing his accomplishments on foreign policy and national security.
Click to expand...

We were a better country 50 years ago before your side finished trashing the place. Probably why Trump started that phrase about making America great again ... or something like that - you know, undoing your damage. Perhaps the Un-F****ing of America to be more blunt.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RavinDave, VolinWayne, W.TN.Orange Blood and 2 others
#51,673
#51,673
AM64 said:
While I agree with a lot of what you said; everything comes down to two parties because it's a competition. Look to sports as an example. We weren't satisfied with some fun bowl games to cap off the football season; we had to turn them into stepping stones for a mythical national championship. It's the nature of society. We have a lust for a winner and a loser that just isn't satisfied by multiple parties. Even the governments built around a parliamentary process with multiple parties form coalitions so two sides can duke it out. I'd like a solution, but I absolutely don't believe one involving multiple parties is possible because we favor Type A personalities and shun the more tolerant, easy going types..
Click to expand...
You can have competition between more than two parties....

It's why we have SEASONS and not just games.

You still end up with one winner, and more losers. A true champion instead of ones chosen by the powers that be.

The parliament system works because when they come together they come up with a compromise. Change either party and you get a different deal. Change topics and you get different preferences. That is a long long way from where we are where the two parties dictate.

I would consider an open primary a huge win. As it is we are already blatant about what is going on. Trump is the REPUBLICAN nomination, biden is the DEMOCRATIC nomination. Neither even pretends to represent the people. It's all about the party.

Except to justify the party existence it makes no sense to hold separate primaries which are races to the extreme. And then the final candidates have a general election back towards the center. Why not just stay in the middle? Our election is set up to lie to us and feed the parties and people are too caught up in it to see it.
 
#51,674
#51,674
AM64 said:
We were a better country 50 years ago before your side finished trashing the place. Probably why Trump started that phrase about making America great again ... or something like that - you know, undoing your damage. Perhaps the Un-F****ing of America to be more blunt.
Click to expand...
What are you trying to sell? Better yet, who are you trying to sell tripe to?
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement

Back
Top