Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

#76,776
#76,776
RockyTop85 said:
He said it in April or May and I came across it a few weeks ago when responding to one of said yahoos’ diatribes.

It seemed to be intended to absolve him of responsibility so I’m not sure how much to credit it. Then again, it only superficially absolves him of responsibility as he still should have been able to find a workaround, assuming the regulations weren’t intended to render the ship worthless.
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Yea he and his administration made a blunder with the nursing homes. That was largely due to the inaccurate projection of hospital capacity and just overall ignorance about the new viral threat in general where there were no know treatments and ventilators were the last hope.
 
#76,777
#76,777
volinbham said:
of course it's important - the issue is that it takes time to produce "clinical evidence-based practice research". They are funding the crap out of Covid research right now. I know several folks who've received such funding and are conducting research.

None of that relates to Trump's Covid response. I have seen no examples where he impeded any of this research and the bulk of it will not impact our current situation for 6 months at least.

IOW, saying the states don't have an NIH equivalent is a moot point in discussing whether Governors have a key role to play or are simply people subject to the competence of Federal agencies.
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That wasn’t the claim. I made an incomplete list earlier of Trump’s follies. No doubt many governors have had theirs as well. I’m also willing to credit multiple governors from both parties for doing well.

The point is when a pandemic affects the whole country then the federal government has a responsibility to lead. Otherwise it’s a disjointed mess, just like we’ve witnessed. I can’t think of another time in our history when something that affected the entire country to this extent where the national leadership response was “let the states figure it out”. It’s blatantly scapegoating effort that has been bought by many here with the false headline of “states rights”. Then when the economy starts taking a downturn the President wants to switch course and claim “absolute authority”. It’s pathetic that anyone would stand for it, but here we are.
 
#76,778
#76,778
OHvol40 said:
That wasn’t the claim. I made an incomplete list earlier of Trump’s follies. No doubt many governors have had theirs as well. I’m also willing to credit multiple governors from both parties for doing well.

The point is when a pandemic affects the whole country then the federal government has a responsibility to lead. Otherwise it’s a disjointed mess, just like we’ve witnessed. I can’t think of another time in our history when something that affected the entire country to this extent where the national leadership response was “let the states figure it out”. It’s blatantly scapegoating rt that has been bought by many here with the false headline of “states rights”. Then when the economy starts taking a downturn the President wants to switch course and claim “absolute authority”. It’s pathetic that anyone would stand for it, but here we are.
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You basically absolved governors of any responsibility and suggested it's all Fed responsibility. When I pointed out that the resources and responsibilities reside in and under control of the state you mentioned NIH as one of the things states don't have. While that is largely true the NIH is not an agency that makes any immediate impact in a pandemic response AND there's no evidence that the NIH has been held back or misdirected in anyway.

If you do a search you'll see I criticized Trump for his claim of "absolute authority". He never had it and it was wrong to claim it. Whether he claimed it or not that doesn't change the role/responsibilities of governors.
 
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#76,779
#76,779
kiddiedoc said:
I was very surprised how quickly the PPE supply picked up here. The local hospitals got close and freaked out, early on, but there was a flood of resources almost immediately. I've heard similar stories around the country.

In the end, nobody ran out of vents or PPE, the surge hospitals were never needed and were disassembled, the ships in NY and Cali remained empty.
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Yep this is true..... our hospitals stayed low due to our overreaction
 
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#76,780
#76,780
kiddiedoc said:
I was very surprised how quickly the PPE supply picked up here. The local hospitals got close and freaked out, early on, but there was a flood of resources almost immediately. I've heard similar stories around the country.

In the end, nobody ran out of vents or PPE, the surge hospitals were never needed and were disassembled, the ships in NY and Cali remained empty.
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Clearly the keyboard warriors know more about it than you who experienced it firsthand.
 
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#76,781
#76,781
volinbham said:
He also said that even though he distributed a mandate that Covid positive patients must be returned to Nursing Homes that the really didn't have to and they should have known to ask him for an exemption from his mandate if they thought it was going to cause a problem.

He also said the mandate was a CDC requirement and he was just following that even though it wasn't a CDC mandate.

More absolution.
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Conversation was about the boat. The intent behind the statement just went to it’s credibility. I don’t really care about Cuomo, even if your recitation seems a little foxified from what I remember reading.
 
#76,782
#76,782
RockyTop85 said:
Conversation was about the boat. The intent behind the statement just went to it’s credibility. I don’t really care about Cuomo, even if your recitation seems a little foxified from what I remember reading.
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actually, my recitation (bar the CDC told me to do it) comes from two AP articles I posted today in this thread. I'm sure I can find the CDC part in a non-Fox source as well.

also I left out the AP article about how NY is undercounting NH deaths and how Cuomo is saying NY did better than other states WRT NH deaths (because they are undercounting them).

All Fox free
 
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#76,786
#76,786
volinbham said:
You basically absolved governors of any responsibility and suggested it's all Fed responsibility. When I pointed out that the resources and responsibilities reside in and under control of the state you mentioned NIH as one of the things states don't have. While that is largely true the NIH is not an agency that makes any immediate impact in a pandemic response AND there's no evidence that the NIH has been held back or misdirected in anyway.

If you do a search you'll see I criticized Trump for his claim of "absolute authority". He never had it and it was wrong to claim it. Whether he claimed it or not that doesn't change the role/responsibilities of governors.
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It’s not just the NIH, pandemic response is one of the CDC’s main focuses.
 
#76,787
#76,787
McDad said:
Sweden made the right call.

Should've known democratic socialists would be smarter than us, right guys?
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More cognitive dissonance in action. Bernie tells us to be like Sweden. Sweden doesn't shut down and they are now reckless killers of their citizens.

Hopefully in retrospect studies will help us really understand what worked and what doesn't (for the next one). The world is providing multiple experiments in how to react.

It's too political now to learn the lessons.
 
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#76,788
#76,788
volinbham said:
More cognitive dissonance in action. Bernie tells us to be like Sweden. Sweden doesn't shut down and they are now reckless killers of their citizens.

Hopefully in retrospect studies will help us really understand what worked and what doesn't (for the next one). The world is providing multiple experiments in how to react.

It's too political now to learn the lessons.
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I read an article, I believe WSJ, that said that not a single country that had a pandemic response plan included mass shutdowns. Smart works well until fear sets in.
 
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#76,789
#76,789
OHvol40 said:
It’s not just the NIH, pandemic response is one of the CDC’s main focuses.
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Yes and they (CDC) botched it. I've said it repeatedly. As they are an Exec agency the buck technically stops with Trump but other than clunking their heads together it's hard to see what Trump could have done to change the bungling of the CDC on testing.

And as I've said, the CDC has counter parts in each state (where the NIH really doesn't). I've worked with state agencies in public health and health care. I know what their responsibilities are. They are a good 80% of the resources and responsibility for public health if not more.
 
#76,790
#76,790
volfanhill said:
I read an article, I believe WSJ, that said that not a single country that had a pandemic response plan included mass shutdowns. Smart works well until fear sets in.
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True. If it's the same story I'm thinking it was a really good story.

If it the next pandemic is 100 years away (God willing) then the lessons of today will be lost. If it's in the next decade or two I'm betting the lessons learned will have an impact. It will be at least a decade before the lessons are learned, incorporated into teaching and leaders who had that teaching have a role in decision making; maybe more.
 
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#76,792
#76,792
volinbham said:
More cognitive dissonance in action. Bernie tells us to be like Sweden. Sweden doesn't shut down and they are now reckless killers of their citizens.

Hopefully in retrospect studies will help us really understand what worked and what doesn't (for the next one). The world is providing multiple experiments in how to react.

It's too political now to learn the lessons.
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Trump stopped his verbal attack on Sweden's response as well.
 
#76,797
#76,797
volfanhill said:
This is like finding the black Trump supporter. “Hey we found a Chinese guy who says this happened.” If any of our alphabet agencies believed this Trump would be screaming about it. He isn’t.
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I'm skeptical but peer review is our best indicator here. If her work gets published it lends credibility. We'll have to wait and see.
 
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#76,799
#76,799
volinbham said:
actually, my recitation (bar the CDC told me to do it) comes from two AP articles I posted today in this thread. I'm sure I can find the CDC part in a non-Fox source as well.

also I left out the AP article about how NY is undercounting NH deaths and how Cuomo is saying NY did better than other states WRT NH deaths (because they are undercounting them).

All Fox free
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Well I wasn’t talking about FOX’s news department. Either you editorialized (Foxopinionified just doesn’t flow as well) or I’m misremembering.

I don’t care enough to go look it up to see which is which. Post the quotes, if you think I’m wrong. Not gonna hurt my feelings if Cuomo is worse than I remembered, though.
 
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#76,800
#76,800
volinbham said:
Yes and they (CDC) botched it. I've said it repeatedly. As they are an Exec agency the buck technically stops with Trump but other than clunking their heads together it's hard to see what Trump could have done to change the bungling of the CDC on testing.

And as I've said, the CDC has counter parts in each state (where the NIH really doesn't). I've worked with state agencies in public health and health care. I know what their responsibilities are. They are a good 80% of the resources and responsibility for public health if not more.
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For standard health operations, yes. For pandemics, no.
 
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