Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

#76,751
#76,751
LouderVol said:
Because we arent communist? Why would we want a government operated supply chain?

Again think of the DMV, but on a national scale.

What interaction with the government has ever left you thinking " you know I wish there were three more levels of buearacts to screw me over before I resolved this simple issue"?
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People were posting that we had never had one. I was responding accordingly
 
#76,753
#76,753
volbeast33 said:
I’m not talking about words.... I’m talking about things that matter like the supply chain....
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That's the thing - even when Trump was doing his "nothing to worry about" commentary, actions were being taken to respond. The procurement and distribution of PPE was underway while Trump was saying conflicting things. Same with industry mobilization, hospital resource mobilization, etc. The actions (other than the CDC testing bungle) were generally as good as could be expected. The messaging was a mess.
 
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#76,756
#76,756
volinbham said:
That's the thing - even when Trump was doing his "nothing to worry about" commentary, actions were being taken to respond. The procurement and distribution of PPE was underway while Trump was saying conflicting things. Same with industry mobilization, hospital resource mobilization, etc. The actions (other than the CDC testing bungle) were generally as good as could be expected. The messaging was a mess.
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I agree 100%
 
#76,758
#76,758
USAFgolferVol said:
And it was an absolute joke for a couple of months. The PPE suppliers had very little direction from Trump until s hit the fan
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How do you figure that? It was only freak out..... we are not going to have this.... we are not going to have this but PPE always showed up....I don’t live in a big city but within 30 miles in each direction...they were supplying 5-6 hospitals.... 7-10 SNF’s and a multitude of doctors offices.... could you imagine that over the whole US
 
#76,760
#76,760
volinbham said:
That's the thing - even when Trump was doing his "nothing to worry about" commentary, actions were being taken to respond. The procurement and distribution of PPE was underway while Trump was saying conflicting things. Same with industry mobilization, hospital resource mobilization, etc. The actions (other than the CDC testing bungle) were generally as good as could be expected. The messaging was a mess.
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Not to mention the US Navy hospital ships that sat unused while Cuomo sent infected to nursing homes.
 
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#76,762
#76,762
Ten_Titans said:
How were governors hung out to dry in comparison with the federal government?

The ones that failed the worst were the ones that panicked and put people with Covid back into nursing homes. That isn't an existential problem hanging you out to dry. That's making an awful decision that any sane person could have told you was awful at the time.

There was no policy at any level that was going to save all lives. In that sense, all levels of our government were hung out to dry. Doesn't mean you can't point out people who took bad situations and made them catastrophically bad.
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I agree with this. Who that is, specifically, seems to be subjective.
 
#76,763
#76,763
OHvol40 said:
Maybe, but the CDC and, to a lesser extent, the NIH aren’t duplications of anything on the state level.
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CDC functions are duplicated to an extent in state health/public health departments.

NIH has few counterparts but then again the NIH funds research for future developments. NIH funding priorities today may be of use for pandemic response 10 years from now but NIH is not a response agency.
 
#76,764
#76,764
MG1968 said:
Not to mention the US Navy hospital ships that sat unused while Cuomo sent infected to nursing homes.
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The ship didn't take Covid patients at first and I'm not sure they took many even after Cuomo asked them to change their mandate to accept them.
 
#76,765
#76,765
volinbham said:
They are broad based agencies to assist the day to day public health.

NIH is a research organization. It has literally nothing to do with pandemic response.

HHS is a much broader based organization that has a role.

CDC is the key Federal player here and I already said they did a poor job.

Each state has it's own HC system/organization and responsibility. They have their own response plans and preparation. The Feds advise.

It's not an old conservative line; it's reality. Sorry you are blind to it.
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That’s not the entire purpose of the NIH. Here is their mission statement: “NIH’s mission is to seek fundamental knowledge about the nature and behavior of living systems and the application of that knowledge to enhance health, lengthen life, and reduce illness and disability.”

Especially in a global pandemic with a novel disease, the NIH has a huge role to play.

It doesn’t take a whole lot of contemplation to realize a pandemic that affects the whole country in an age where long distance travel is so easy that 50 individual states’ health departments fending for themselves isn’t just inefficient, it’s stupid. We aren’t talking about legislating laws for everyday life, we’re talking about a microscopic natural disaster. Coordination and some sense of direction and/or uniformity was sorely needed... that’s what the CDC is specifically equipped for but there were a long line of failings at that level.

I expect a 911 Commission-style review when the dust settles a little on this and the results are likely going to be embarrassing at the very least, maybe criminal.
 
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#76,767
#76,767
volinbham said:
CDC functions are duplicated to an extent in state health/public health departments.

NIH has few counterparts but then again the NIH funds research for future developments. NIH funding priorities today may be of use for pandemic response 10 years from now but NIH is not a response agency.
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It is not a response agency, but it also doesn’t just deal in medications for the future. Clinical evidence-based practice research in situations like this is important for treating current patients of the pandemic and they play a roll.
 
#76,768
#76,768
Mick said:
The ship didn't take Covid patients at first and I'm not sure they took many even after Cuomo asked them to change their mandate to accept them.
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Cuomo said (tifwiw) that the ship’s criteria for accepting patients was part of the nursing home problem. The ship wouldn’t take transfers from nursing homes or something.
 
#76,769
#76,769
MurphyVol said:
I think Trump has been his own worst enemy with lack of a clear message.

To me there's two basic effective strategies: Senegal or Sweden. I think we could have either done nothing (but demand we protect senior care facilities) or we could have encouraged the Governors to push mask mandates (but not shut down).

At various times Trump has said

It's 5x worse than the flu

It'll disappear

Chastised mask wearing

Call masks wearing Patriotic

Talked down shut-downs

Chastised Ga Gov for not having a longer shut down

Put together a task force and had daily briefings

Discredited his task force

Look, I know the US is different in the fact the have 50 governors to run their individual states, but he's got to have some infulence as the leader of the free world, right?

I think Biden's a boob and I still think there's a 50/50 chance Trump gets reelected but he's had a string of self inflicted wounds throughout the pandemic. Just pick a plan (even if that plan is nothing) and be honest and consistent.
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That’s a pretty fair criticism whether someone agrees or not, as opposed to this “Trump lied and killed 190K people” BS. This is going to be one wild ride the next couple of months.
 
#76,770
#76,770
RockyTop85 said:
Cuomo said (tifwiw) that the ship’s criteria for accepting patients was part of the nursing home problem. The ship wouldn’t take transfers from nursing homes or something.
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I hadn't heard that but still won't stop his supporters/fans from continuing their diatribe.
 
#76,772
#76,772
volbeast33 said:
How do you figure that? It was only freak out..... we are not going to have this.... we are not going to have this but PPE always showed up....I don’t live in a big city but within 30 miles in each direction...they were supplying 5-6 hospitals.... 7-10 SNF’s and a multitude of doctors offices.... could you imagine that over the whole US
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I was very surprised how quickly the PPE supply picked up here. The local hospitals got close and freaked out, early on, but there was a flood of resources almost immediately. I've heard similar stories around the country.

In the end, nobody ran out of vents or PPE, the surge hospitals were never needed and were disassembled, the ships in NY and Cali remained empty.
 
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#76,773
#76,773
Mick said:
I hadn't heard that but still won't stop his supporters/fans from continuing their diatribe.
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He said it in April or May and I came across it a few weeks ago when responding to one of said yahoos’ diatribes.

It seemed to be intended to absolve him of responsibility so I’m not sure how much to credit it. Then again, it only superficially absolves him of responsibility as he still should have been able to find a workaround, assuming the regulations weren’t intended to render the ship worthless.
 
#76,774
#76,774
OHvol40 said:
It is not a response agency, but it also doesn’t just deal in medications for the future. Clinical evidence-based practice research in situations like this is important for treating current patients of the pandemic and they play a roll.
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of course it's important - the issue is that it takes time to produce "clinical evidence-based practice research". They are funding the crap out of Covid research right now. I know several folks who've received such funding and are conducting research.

None of that relates to Trump's Covid response. I have seen no examples where he impeded any of this research and the bulk of it will not impact our current situation for 6 months at least.

IOW, saying the states don't have an NIH equivalent is a moot point in discussing whether Governors have a key role to play or are simply people subject to the competence of Federal agencies.
 
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#76,775
#76,775
RockyTop85 said:
He said it in April or May and I came across it a few weeks ago when responding to one of said yahoos’ diatribes.

It seemed to be intended to absolve him of responsibility so I’m not sure how much to credit it. Then again, it only superficially absolves him of responsibility as he still should have been able to find a workaround, assuming the regulations weren’t intended to render the ship worthless.
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He also said that even though he distributed a mandate that Covid positive patients must be returned to Nursing Homes that the really didn't have to and they should have known to ask him for an exemption from his mandate if they thought it was going to cause a problem.

He also said the mandate was a CDC requirement and he was just following that even though it wasn't a CDC mandate.

More absolution.
 
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