Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

[Y9 Vol]

look Justin, I know that you are a little slow. Stopping people from traveling from China really didn't do much to mitigate the virus. People were still traveling from Europe. So you plug one hole in your boat, but there are four holes. Your boat will still sink.

The ignorance in this statement is amazing.

 

[McDad]

I was thinking America to Sweden. Or America to anywhere. Without a baseline I dont see how you can say we did better or worse.

To me I think the real tell will be the average after two or more years Issue is by the time we have that data no one will care anymore and everyone will refuse to do any real introspection.

What about Sweden to TN bc of relative size?

Or swedend to Ohio bc of relative population?

The challenge in comparing is America is very unique in the disparity of population densities, the access to clean everything, large immigrant populations, etc. I think certain areas (like mentioned to Volstrom) are fair to compare. The whole country is a different matter.

 

[volinbham]

look Justin, I know that you are a little slow. Stopping people from traveling from China really didn't do much to mitigate the virus. People were still traveling from Europe. So you plug one hole in your boat, but there are four holes. Your boat will still sink.

Much of the reaction was against even plugging the China hole in the boat...

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

What steps did he disallow?

I've got to rehash the entire timeline with you? I mean, even with the tape coming out about serious he admitted the virus is, he was still pushing for places and things to open. Doesn't sound like someone that has the best interest of Americans to me. I mean, I wouldn't tell my kids to go outside and play in the middle of a tornado. But hey, I am a overprotective father.

 

[LouderVol]

And Germany says lol at your lol....

In what way? They did a lot more than Sweden did.

 

[McDad]

I've got to rehash the entire timeline with you? I mean, even with the tape coming out about serious he admitted the virus is, he was still pushing for places and things to open. Doesn't sound like someone that has the best interest of Americans to me. I mean, I wouldn't tell my kids to go outside and play in the middle of a tornado. But hey, I am a overprotective father.

Those states stayed open or closed based on the governors.

That's one of a handful of things I agree with DJT's approach.

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

Much of the reaction was against even plugging the China hole in the boat...

ok, travel from China was stopped....what did that do?
Calling it Kung Flu, and China Virus, what did that do? Did the virus run and hide from the mean nasty names?
He could've said hey lets wash our hands and wear a mask until we get a vaccine and get a handle on this virus.

 

[volfanjustin]

look Justin, I know that you are a little slow. Stopping people from traveling from China really didn't do much to mitigate the virus. People were still traveling from Europe. So you plug one hole in your boat, but there are four holes. Your boat will still sink.

These are direct quotes from your people. People you worship were saying this isn't transmitted easily, go out, go to Chinatown etc....

 

[volinbham]

What about Sweden to TN bc of relative size?

Or swedend to Ohio bc of relative population?

The challenge in comparing is America is very unique in the disparity of population densities, the access to clean everything, large immigrant populations, etc. I think certain areas (like mentioned to Volstrom) are fair to compare. The whole country is a different matter.

Another issue is reporting raw numbers vs per capita numbers. Plenty of countries still doing worse than the US in per capita deaths but all that ever seems to get reported is total.

Without NYC, the US would be looking really good. I believe the states of NJ and NY dwarf the per capita death rate of any other country in the world.

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

In what way? They did a lot more than Sweden did.

Exactly.....you talking like you are ok with 190K dead. Those are a lot families affected by death. There is nothing after death. Ain't no do overs. A pre-existing condition should not be a death sentence for anyone. Pandemic or not.

 

[volinbham]

ok, travel from China was stopped....what did that do?
Calling it Kung Flu, and China Virus, what did that do? Did the virus run and hide from the mean nasty names?
He could've said hey lets wash our hands and wear a mask until we get a vaccine and get a handle on this virus.

It helped some but Dems almost uniformly were against the move. Had we listened to them more people would be dead (all else equal).

No one got it all right - every leader of any magnitude made decisions that made things worse. It blows my mind that if you think Trump f'd this up that you don't see how Cuomo f'd it up more.

 

[ajvol01]

 

[southgatevol]

ok, travel from China was stopped....what did that do?
Calling it Kung Flu, and China Virus, what did that do? Did the virus run and hide from the mean nasty names?
He could've said hey lets wash our hands and wear a mask until we get a vaccine and get a handle on this virus.

If Trump had said "wash your hands" everyone would definitely know who the liberals are. None of them would ever wash their hands again.

 

[McDad]

Another issue is reporting raw numbers vs per capita numbers. Plenty of countries still doing worse than the US in per capita deaths but all that ever seems to get reported is total.

Without NYC, the US would be looking really good. I believe the states of NJ and NY dwarf the per capita death rate of any other country in the world.

If titansvolsfaninga is going to make a claim that the response could have been better and prevented deaths, then he will have to make a case based on comparisons. Speculating isn't going to cut it.

At this point, all I can say with complete conviction is: I wouldn't wanted to live in a large city in the Northeast, or in a nursing home and be vulnerable to covid 19.

Trump presidency, his response, his tweets, and his verbiage didn't do anything to effect cities or nursing homes. And no one else would have made a difference, either....excluding Cuomo's monumental bungle.

 

[volinbham]

Exactly.....you talking like you are ok with 190K dead. Those are a lot families affected by death. There is nothing after death. Ain't no do overs. A pre-existing condition should not be a death sentence for anyone. Pandemic or not.

do you have any idea how many people died due to excessive lock down restrictions? are you ok with those deaths?

point is we don't know what the absolute minimal number of deaths could be in the perfect reaction and efforts to reduce Covid deaths also caused deaths by other causes. Just today there was an article about the worsening of the Opiod crisis due to the Covid situation.

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

It helped some but Dems almost uniformly were against the move. Had we listened to them more people would be dead (all else equal).

No one got it all right - every leader of any magnitude made decisions that made things worse. It blows my mind that if you think Trump f'd this up that you don't see how Cuomo f'd it up more.

You talking about World leader or US leader? Are we leaders or followers? If your friends jumped off the bridge, would you jump too?

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

The ignorance in this statement is amazing.

so you can't argue against it. Got it!

 

[volinbham]

Trump definitely could have handled it better, but I see no indication Biden would have handled it better.

 

[allvol123]

I've got to rehash the entire timeline with you? I mean, even with the tape coming out about serious he admitted the virus is, he was still pushing for places and things to open. Doesn't sound like someone that has the best interest of Americans to me. I mean, I wouldn't tell my kids to go outside and play in the middle of a tornado. But hey, I am a overprotective father.

You sound mostly just to be emotional.

I will ask again, what did he prevent from happening.

 

[LouderVol]

What about Sweden to TN bc of relative size?

Or swedend to Ohio bc of relative population?

The challenge in comparing is America is very unique in the disparity of population densities, the access to clean everything, large immigrant populations, etc. I think certain areas (like mentioned to Volstrom) are fair to compare. The whole country is a different matter.

Sweden has lost less than 6k of 10million+.
Tennessee is less than 2k of 7 million.

I guess what I am unclear of here is what everyone is wanting to compare? Total deaths, total hospitalizations, total sick, total tests, remember when this was the talking point? Pepperidge farm remembers.

Once you know what end result you are looking at you can adjust for masks, social distancing, population density, age, health etc accordingly.

And then to gauge success I would think you would want to account for what the goal is. Again remember when it was flatten the curve? Pepperidge farm remembers. Once they realized that wouldnt save too many lives as we weren't getting overwhelmed it became a zero death game. Which is why New York got praised for a bit until their totals were pointed out again.

There hasnt been a consistent standard about what is good, what is acceptable, what is bad, because it's all political.

Trump was killing millions with what he was doing. And then when that didnt happen it was only 200k INSPITE of Trump. And now we have Biden and the Dems claiming it would be even less under them without setting a standard.

The disease itself is no hoax by any stretch but the games on both sides are political.

 

[volinbham]

You talking about World leader or US leader? Are we leaders or followers? If your friends jumped off the bridge, would you jump too?

US leaders (eg. Cuomo, govs of NJ, MASS, CT)

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

do you have any idea how many people died due to excessive lock down restrictions? are you ok with those deaths?

point is we don't know what the absolute minimal number of deaths could be in the perfect reaction and efforts to reduce Covid deaths also caused deaths by other causes. Just today there was an article about the worsening of the Opiod crisis due to the Covid situation.

what excessive lock down restriction? You talking about suicide? Domestic violence? It sure was not more than 190K.

 

[DancingOutlaw]

Another issue is reporting raw numbers vs per capita numbers. Plenty of countries still doing worse than the US in per capita deaths but all that ever seems to get reported is total.

Without NYC, the US would be looking really good. I believe the states of NJ and NY dwarf the per capita death rate of any other country in the world.

Well let's not forget that China only has 5k deaths. I mean lol.

 

[McDad]

Sweden has lost less than 6k of 10million+.
Tennessee is less than 2k of 7 million.

I guess what I am unclear of here is what everyone is wanting to compare? Total deaths, total hospitalizations, total sick, total tests, remember when this was the talking point? Pepperidge farm remembers.

Once you know what end result you are looking at you can adjust for masks, social distancing, population density, age, health etc accordingly.

And then to gauge success I would think you would want to account for what the goal is. Again remember when it was flatten the curve? Pepperidge farm remembers. Once they realized that wouldnt save too many lives as we weren't getting overwhelmed it became a zero death game. Which is why New York got praised for a bit until their totals were pointed out again.

There hasnt been a consistent standard about what is good, what is acceptable, what is bad, because it's all political.

Trump was killing millions with what he was doing. And then when that didnt happen it was only 200k INSPITE of Trump. And now we have Biden and the Dems claiming it would be even less under them without setting a standard.

The disease itself is no hoax by any stretch but the games on both sides are political.

doesn't matter anyway. titansvolfaninga jumped the shark about 3 posts ago.

Nothing to discuss if we can't be objective.

 

[LouderVol]

Trump definitely could have handled it better, but I see no indication Biden would have handled it better.

Anyone could have always handled it better. If we were at 100k deaths there would be people saying we should be at less. If we were at 50k there would be people saying we should be at less.