Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

#75,351
#75,351
evillawyer said:
So when those people jumped out of the world trade center on 9/11 to avoid being engulfed in the flames, their deaths weren't fully caused by terrorism?
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You know, it’s pretty clear at this point that you and those with your mindset are the problem. Believing in and spreading fear with no basis in reality or context is immature and juvenile at best and flat out dangerous at worst.
 
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#75,354
#75,354
evillawyer said:
Ok, a robber shoots a hemophiliac and that person dies. Any non-hemophiliac would have survived the shooting. Is your position the gun shot did not kill the victim?
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That doesn't even make sense wrt a bullet wound. You should stop before you fall further behind. You're fighting so hard for this to be real but the data just doesn't support it
 
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#75,357
#75,357
utvolpj said:
That doesn't even make sense wrt a bullet wound. You should stop before you fall further behind. You're fighting so hard for this to be real but the data just doesn't support it
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No, the analogy is spot on. You don't like the conclusion it entails.
 
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#75,360
#75,360
evillawyer said:
Ok, a robber shoots a hemophiliac and that person dies. Any non-hemophiliac would have survived the shooting. Is your position the gun shot did not kill the victim?
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It is any reasonable (read as “non-stupid and/or partisan”) persons position that neither the gun shot nor the hemophiliac is the sole reason the person died. But you are out here tweeting the stupidity like one or the other are the sole reason.

Also, all non hemophiliacs should be able to walk around free reign and the economy should be 100% open to them.
 
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#75,363
#75,363
evillawyer said:
No, the analogy is spot on. You don't like the conclusion it entails.
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Your analogy is the same as saying x number of people died from hunger, suicide, failure to get cancer screenings, etc because the nation was shut down due to China Virus therefore since you supported the shutdown you killed x number of people
 
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#75,364
#75,364
NY TIMES: Up to 90% Who've Tested COVID-Positive Wrongly Diagnosed! TRUTH: A Whole Lot Worse! (Pt 3/3)
That’s right folks. The CDC issued guidelines for COVID-19 testing that their own research showed were bound to mean that a lot of people not infected by the virus would get back test results falsely saying they were.
Moreover, even running samples through the 33 cycles the New York Times mentions as the cutoff point in the CDC’s research appears to be way too much amplification.
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#75,365
#75,365
rjd970 said:
It is any reasonable (read as “non-stupid and/or partisan”) persons position that neither the gun shot nor the hemophiliac is the sole reason the person died. But you are out here tweeting the stupidity like one or the other are the sole reason.

Also, all non hemophiliacs should be able to walk around free reign and the economy should be 100% open to them.
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I'm appealing to common sense. A person gets shot, bleeds out and dies. We don't say it was the hemophilia that killed him because he would have been alive absent the gun shot, even with his precondition. Similarly, lots of these people who died of covid would still be alive today if they hadn't caught covid. This is not to deny that there are tough cases. Maybe terminal cancer is at an advanced stage when a person gets covid. There it's hard to say what's doing the causal work. But that's the exception, not the norm. Many of those dying had diabetes, which can be controlled through medication in most cases. Are you going to maintain that covid is not going the causal work there?
 
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#75,367
#75,367
evillawyer said:
I'm appealing to common sense. A person gets shot, bleeds out and dies. We don't say it was the hemophilia that killed him because he would have been alive absent the gun shot, even with his precondition. Similarly, lots of these people who died of covid would still be alive today if they hadn't caught covid. This is not to deny that there are tough cases. Maybe terminal cancer is at an advanced stage when a person gets covid. There it's hard to say what's doing the causal work. But that's the exception, not the norm. Many of those dying had diabetes, which can be controlled through medication in most cases. Are you going to maintain that covid is not going the causal work there?
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Average age of death from Covid: 78
Characteristics of Persons Who Died with COVID-19 — United States...
Average age of death in general 78.7

I dont see how you can really argue that a significant number of the Covid deaths would be alive today without it. Age of death is almost exactly the same throughout.

This is a one year blip that is going to average out in another year. No reason to have shut down the country for this long.
 
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#75,368
#75,368
TennTradition said:
From a US public health perspective - does it matter that you tend to need another condition (like diabetes, heart disease, or obesity) to have a higher risk of dying? I ask because I'd say 65% or more of the adult population has at least one of those. Wouldn't you? Maybe that's too high because a lot of your obese population will also have heart disease. But, the number has to be way up there.

Of course, it matters at a personal level.
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From a US health perspective I’d suggest your average adult American take ownership of their own health and get it in order instead of sitting on their asses and let their Dr’s treat health issues (obesity, high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes) that they can absolutely correct themselves by taking ownership of their own health and correcting their lifestyle. I know I did it. And if I get the ‘rona now I’m fairly confident my immune system is robust enough to minimize the chance of a highly adverse outcome. The world isn’t a safe place. Prepare accordingly
 
#75,370
#75,370
utvolpj said:
Yes it matters unless you believe someone else's life choices should directly affect my ability to do business. If very few without these additional risks are dying then we're being shut down not because of covid-19 but because of other mostly treatable conditions that have been allowed to take over our society
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When we are talking about 1000 deaths a day and trying to contextualize that to risk to the general public - the fact that over 90% of that 1000 had some contributing condition becomes much less relevant to the risk to the general public when well over 50% of the general public has those conditions. That's my point.

My comment is about interpreting death counts to make public health decisions, not about the implications of lock downs. Clearly public health decisions have impact on personal freedoms, personal finance, etc. But if you are making public health decisions, it's one thing to say "well 90% of the people that died had a comorbidity" becomes less and less relevant as the fraction of the population that has those commodities increases.

If the at-risk could be isolated from infection, then your business activities are less relevant to their health. But if they cannot be isolated, then if your business activities increase general infection levels, then your activities might need to be regulated to execute a public health strategy. In the end, other factors might dominate public health due to corona in deciding that your activity shouldn't be regulated because doing so would do more harm, but that seems to be a decision that we have a very very difficult time making.
 
#75,371
#75,371
NorthDallas40 said:
From a US health perspective I’d suggest your average adult American take ownership of their own health and get it in order instead of sitting on their asses and let their Dr’s treat health issues (obesity, high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes) that they can absolutely correct themselves by taking ownership of their own health and correcting their lifestyle. I know I did it. And if I get the ‘rona now I’m fairly confident my immune system is robust enough to minimize the chance of a highly adverse outcome. The world isn’t a safe place. Prepare accordingly
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Well if we're looking to point fingers, this perspective becomes more relevant. It isn't the non-mask wearer's fault that you are fat and at-risk.

However, from a public health perspective and managing THIS pandemic, the why or how becomes less meaningful than the what (is the situation we face).
 
#75,373
#75,373
evillawyer said:
I'm appealing to common sense. A person gets shot, bleeds out and dies. We don't say it was the hemophilia that killed him because he would have been alive absent the gun shot, even with his precondition. Similarly, lots of these people who died of covid would still be alive today if they hadn't caught covid. This is not to deny that there are tough cases. Maybe terminal cancer is at an advanced stage when a person gets covid. There it's hard to say what's doing the causal work. But that's the exception, not the norm. Many of those dying had diabetes, which can be controlled through medication in most cases. Are you going to maintain that covid is not going the causal work there?
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I’m going to and will continue to maintain (it’s actually factual at this point) that Covid by itself is not killing as many people as your tweets and the fear peddlers would love for us to believe.

The death certificates are labeling Covid along with other causes. By itself, it isnt near as deadly. End of story. The tweets and fear pushing is past moronic at this point.
 
#75,374
#75,374
lawgator1 said:
Yeah, its just the Dems saying they can control the virus:

"We do have a plan and we think it's gonna be handled very well, we've already handled it very well. — President Trump to CBS News White House correspondent Paula Reid in Davos, Switzerland.

"We have it totally under control. It's one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It's going to be just fine." CNBC interview in Davos, Switzerland

President Trump issues his first tweet on coronavirus. "China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!"

On this day, the World Health Organization declares coronavirus a public-health emergency. "We think we have it very well under control. We have very little problem in this country at this moment — five — and those people are all recuperating successfully. But we're working very closely with China and other countries, and we think it's going to have a very good ending for us … that I can assure you," Mr. Trump said at a speech at a Michigan manufacturing plant.

"Just had a long and very good conversation by phone with President Xi of China. He is strong, sharp and powerfully focused on leading the counterattack on the Coronavirus. He feels they are doing very well, even building hospitals in a matter of only days. Nothing is easy, but......he will be successful, especially as the weather starts to warm & the virus hopefully becomes weaker, and then gone. Great discipline is taking place in China, as President Xi strongly leads what will be a very successful operation. We are working closely with China to help!" the president tweeted.

"I had a long talk with President Xi — for the people in this room — two nights ago, and he feels very confident. He feels very confident. And he feels that, again, as I mentioned, by April or during the month of April, the heat, generally speaking, kills this kind of virus," the president said during a White House meeting with governors.

"We're very much involved. We're very — very cognizant of everything going on. We have it very much under control in this country," the president told reporters, in response to a question about whether he had been updated on the coronavirus.

"The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!" the president tweeted.

"You may ask about the coronavirus, which is very well under control in our country. We have very few people with it, and the people that have it are - in all cases, I have not heard anything other," the president said during a press conference on his trip to India.




I stopped there and that only through February !!! What was that, about a half dozen we got it under control's? Added bonus for Trump congratulating China and Xi, who he now paints as our mortal enemy.

Trump is such a conman. Anyone who falls for his nonsense is just pathetic.
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You are so easy. Just curious, does that mean that anyone who falls for the Dem’s rhetoric is also pathetic?
 
#75,375
#75,375
rjd970 said:
I understand, that is why I said “only corona”.

The question that really needs to be asked is for all the certificates that list corona as the comorbidity would the person had died without corona anyway. I don’t know what that number is, but I guarantee blasting 1000 deaths due to corona in a tweet is not true reality. Do you?

I don’t understand the purpose behind that tweet that isn’t purely political and fear spreading.
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I think that if the question is "would they have died anyway at that time", the answer is generally no when COVID is listed in Part I of the cause of death. Where it is itself a "significant condition" listed in Part II, then the answer is likely yes, they would have died anyway.

Also relevant to this is the question @allvol123 has routinely asked about "would this person have died later this year?" Ethical skeptic has taken a stab at estimating that and he thinks the number is 63% or so of the people who died within the next year. At least I think that's what he came up with. I've been unable to come up with a way I trust to project that number.
 
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