2020 Presidential Race

[0nelilreb]

I think you are starting to catch on.
Drs and nurses are taught here because they receive a good education here. Same with engineers, computer geeks, and every other field.
Just as we have some world class universities, we have some world class hospitals. When you start breaking it down to what the average Joes, and even worse, below average Joes receive the comparisons are still equally valid.
Your whole indoctrination delusion is just that.

I believe you are the one starting to understand that our health care system in the United States if far and away better than other countries and trying to compare theirs to ours is like comparing the high performance speed and cost / value of a Volkswagen to that of a Lamborghini. You can’t in anyway make the comparison.
I’ve watched videos posted in here of teachers not only not being able to answer basic elementary history questions, but then turning around and saying on camera that they don’t use the course curriculum and instead teach the kids what they think should be taught . That my friend is indoctrination. Higher schools of learning that don’t encourage different opinions but instead try to stifle one side or the other because they have a different opinion , is agenda driven political propaganda or in a word “ indoctrination “ there’s no delusion on my part of what is happening . I’ll give you just one off the top of my head .. UC Berkeley ( what anyone that has any knowledge knows to be the bastion of free speech on college campuses) , has now turned into a college that tries to prevent opinions that are different than other students and faculty hold to be true . If you are a true educator of youth ( I know you are ) then this last thing I just said should enrage you because of the “ progressive “ road the Democratic Party is taking on the issue of teaching our kids .

 

[Orangeburst]

Sure they do. There are hundreds of thousands of foreign born students getting their secondary education in the US.
The brightest from around the world.

They only boost the collective poor performance of the American kids. They come to America cause America, not for secondary school. In fact the smart ones and higher income parents send to private schools.
Regardless our school system sucks and our healthcare is terrific albeit high cost

 

[luthervol]

I believe you are the one starting to understand that our health care system in the United States if far and away better than other countries and trying to compare theirs to ours is like comparing the high performance speed and cost / value of a Volkswagen to that of a Lamborghini. You can’t in anyway make the comparison.
I’ve watched videos posted in here of teachers not only not being able to answer basic elementary history questions, but then turning around and saying on camera that they don’t use the course curriculum and instead teach the kids what they think should be taught . That my friend is indoctrination. Higher schools of learning that don’t encourage different opinions but instead try to stifle one side or the other because they have a different opinion , is agenda driven political propaganda or in a word “ indoctrination “ there’s no delusion on my part of what is happening . I’ll give you just one off the top of my head .. UC Berkeley ( what anyone that has any knowledge knows to be the bastion of free speech on college campuses) , has now turned into a college that tries to prevent opinions that are different than other students and faculty hold to be true . If you are a true educator of youth ( I know you are ) then this last thing I just said should enrage you because of the “ progressive “ road the Democratic Party is taking on the issue of teaching our kids .

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/med...a recent study,after heart disease and cancer.

• A recent Johns Hopkins study claims more than 250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors. Other reports claim the numbers to be as high as 440,000.
• Medical errors are the third-leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer.

Give me a break.
There are crappy teachers, there are crappy nurses, and there are crappy doctors.
You seem to have some deeply entrenched biases, one to see something far better than it actually is, and the other to see something far worse than it actually is. It's pretty standard coming from the right because they are truly the ones who have been indoctrinated.

 

[luthervol]

They only boost the collective poor performance of the American kids. They come to America cause America, not for secondary school. In fact the smart ones and higher income parents send to private schools.
Regardless our school system sucks and our healthcare is terrific albeit high cost

You guys really depress me at times.

 

[0nelilreb]

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/med...a recent study,after heart disease and cancer.

• A recent Johns Hopkins study claims more than 250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors. Other reports claim the numbers to be as high as 440,000.
• Medical errors are the third-leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer.

Give me a break.
There are crappy teachers, there are crappy nurses, and there are crappy doctors.
You seem to have some deeply entrenched biases, one to see something far better than it actually is, and the other to see something far worse than it actually is. It's pretty standard coming from the right because they are truly the ones who have been indoctrinated.

Actually I don’t have any biased I just don’t pretend that I , you , we , or they can compare the US systems to other countries fairly . I know you try I’ve seen you do it several times and you always come up short because of your string theory concept . I also had a bet with myself as to if you would address the Berkeley part of it .. I won the bet . Your continuum score on ability to be fair and honest when it comes to Health care is now a solid 23.6%, your ability to address the education indoctrination problem the left is using has fallen to 17.3% . The good news is .. your continuum score to deflect , and blame the right for the lefts woeful leadership in urban cities and colleges is holding steady at 98.9%

 

[0nelilreb]

You guys really depress me at times.

Good .. now you know how we feel about Your reasonable and rational BS . It’s nothing more than “ how you eat and elephant “ in disguise.

 

[Ten_Titans]

They only boost the collective poor performance of the American kids. They come to America cause America, not for secondary school. In fact the smart ones and higher income parents send to private schools.
Regardless our school system sucks and our healthcare is terrific albeit high cost

He's right. Many many foreign students come here for school in the STEM and medical fields. For the time being, the US still leads the way in virtually all STEM categories.

Unfortunetly, the majority of secondary and post secondary education is not in STEM, and the Humanities and Liberal Arts in aggregate are both pathetic and useless funding leeches.

 

[golfballs]

Y’all are really upset at the possibly of society advancing.

Yes that’s it. The war on women. Remember that? Lol

 

[0nelilreb]

Good .. now you know how we feel about Your reasonable and rational BS . It’s nothing more than “ how you eat and elephant “ in disguise.

Edit : I am picking on you . I lost my wallet this morning getting out of my truck and a “ Good Samaritan” out there picked it up before I could walk back to get it , and is “ holding it for me now “ . So bear with me while I take it out on you .

 

[Ten_Titans]

Yes that’s it. The war on women. Remember that? Lol

It cracks me up the same group of people who believe in Green initiatives for "future generations" also believe in things like abortion, glorifying single motherhood, genital mutilation of children, and having the government raise their own kids.

But hey, at least those ****ed up kids will still have polar bears around to look at lol.

 

[luthervol]

Actually I don’t have any biased I just don’t pretend that I , you , we , or they can compare the US systems to other countries fairly . I know you try I’ve seen you do it several times and you always come up short because of your string theory concept . I also had a bet with myself as to if you would address the Berkeley part of it .. I won the bet . Your continuum score on ability to be fair and honest when it comes to Health care is now a solid 23.6%, your ability to address the education indoctrination problem the left is using has fallen to 17.3% . The good news is .. your continuum score to deflect , and blame the right for the lefts woeful leadership in urban cities and colleges is holding steady at 98.9%

My whole purpose in this debate is to have people evaluate our heath care system and educational system equitably.
As always, I'm met with mostly deaf ears. But I'm used to it, I've seen it for 30 years.
Here is a good litmus test.
On a scale of 1 to 10, rate each of the following:
* The US health care system
* The US educational system

If you have more than a two point difference in your answers either way, you've been indoctrinated away from reality.....Truth.
The astonishing thing is how many right wingers would have a difference of 5+ points......total indoctrinated delusion.
The reasons why this is so are so obvious.

 

[Ten_Titans]

My whole purpose in this debate is to have people evaluate our heath care system and educational system equitably.
As always, I'm met with mostly deaf ears. But I'm used to it, I've seen it for 30 years.
Here is a good litmus test.
On a scale of 1 to 10, rate each of the following:
* The US health care system
* The US educational system

If you have more than a two point difference in your answers either way, you've been indoctrinated away from reality.....Truth.
The astonishing thing is how many right wingers would have a difference of 5+ points......total indoctrinated delusion.
The reasons why this is so are so obvious.

So if you take two of the most complicated enterprises in the country that have nothing in common.. Reduce them both to an arbitrary 1-10 scale, and have a significant difference... Whatever the hell that means.. You are "indoctrinated away from reality."

Seems reasonable.

 

[luthervol]

So if you take two of the most complicated enterprises in the country... Reduce them both to an arbitrary 1-10 scale, and have a significant difference... Whatever the hell that means.. You are "indoctrinated away from reality."

Seems reasonable.

Thanks,
I have them both in the 6.5 - 7.4 range.
How about you?

Edit: and there are many significant commonalities.

 

[Ten_Titans]

Thanks,
I have them both in the 6.5 - 7.4 range.
How about you?

I would say it's like comparing apples to oranges, but at least apples and oranges are both fruit. They are literally different in virtually all details. They are both giant inefficient debt machines, and that's about where the similarities end.

I would have to give an edge to Healthcare. Not quite as wastefully subsidized by the government as education and at least you are given something remotely useful like stitches before being handed 70k dollars in debt.

 

[luthervol]

I would say it's like comparing apples to oranges, but at least apples and oranges are both fruit. They are literally different in virtually all details. They are both giant inefficient debt machines, and that's about where the similarities end.

I would have to give an edge to Healthcare. Not quite as wastefully subsidized by the government as education and at least you are given something remotely useful like stitches before being handed 70k dollars in debt.

You're not comparing health care to education, you are comparing your ratings of each.
It's kind of like comparing your ratings of UT's football and basketball teams.
Here's a couple of other things the two have in common.
Society has decided we would never deny anyone either.
If you're rich, the systems serve you well; and if you're poor.........well, not so much.

 

[Carl Pickens]

Not looking for a prince, just the abdication of the prince of darkness.
I'm not into the worship of political figures.; that's the Trumpers' domain.

 

[Carl Pickens]

I love how the Trump complains about Chinese theft of intellectual property, but then every week gets a cease and desist letter from some band who objects to the campaign using their music. Law and order baby!

Linkin Park sends cease and desist to Trump campaign for using their music - CNN

Don’t you have some online shopping to do at Lane Bryant or something?

 

[Orangeburst]

He's right. Many many foreign students come here for school in the STEM and medical fields. For the time being, the US still leads the way in virtually all STEM categories.

Unfortunetly, the majority of secondary and post secondary education is not in STEM, and the Humanities and Liberal Arts in aggregate are both pathetic and useless funding leeches.

Are u talking secondary or post secondary because no one is arguing post secondary. No one comes here for a secondary education which is the point of this discussion

 

[mr.checkerboards]

You're not comparing health care to education, you are comparing your ratings of each.
It's kind of like comparing your ratings of UT's football and basketball teams.
Here's a couple of other things the two have in common.
Society has decided we would never deny anyone either.
If you're rich, the systems serve you well; and if you're poor.........well, not so much.

I'll take your bait. I would give our healthcare an 8. We are top of the line, tip top and have some of the most advanced medical procedures and practices in the world, but like you post earlier there are mistakes made. A 9 I would say is obtainable but to get a 10 would mean perfection, and nobody and nothing is perfect.
However I think education is a different topic. Lets say I give education a 6. I believe there are countries that have a better grasp on how to handle the system and understand things that the American system doesnt. For example we put so much emphasis on STEM that trades are being left behind. Test scores are more important than other factors. Also I believe our system misses many points about life that student should learn before they graduate. I believe we spend too much time on irrelevant studies and that time could be focused on stuff like Home Ec, Personal Finance, How to handle everyday life. Leadership courses so on and so forth. I would put Asain education above us, because they have a better designed system that fits their countries needs. However I would put us over most other countries.

 

[luthervol]

I'll take your bait. I would give our healthcare an 8. We are top of the line, tip top and have some of the most advanced medical procedures and practices in the world, but like you post earlier there are mistakes made. A 9 I would say is obtainable but to get a 10 would mean perfection, and nobody and nothing is perfect.
However I think education is a different topic. Lets say I give education a 6. I believe there are countries that have a better grasp on how to handle the system and understand things that the American system doesnt. For example we put so much emphasis on STEM that trades are being left behind. Test scores are more important than other factors. Also I believe our system misses many points about life that student should learn before they graduate. I believe we spend too much time on irrelevant studies and that time could be focused on stuff like Home Ec, Personal Finance, How to handle everyday life. Leadership courses so on and so forth. I would put Asain education above us, because they have a better designed system that fits their countries needs. However I would put us over most other countries.

Great answer. Thanks. We aren't that far off from each other.

 

[Orangeburst]

You guys really depress me at times.

You are on a different planet. Were you or your family immigrants, because you have a strange obsession with the power of the bureaucrat

 

[Orangeburst]

Sure they do. There are hundreds of thousands of foreign born students getting their secondary education in the US.
The brightest from around the world.

Do you know the difference between secondary and post secondary? You would need to show me data to support this claim. The only foreign born students are Mexicans and kids in private school

 

[RavinDave]

Edit : I am picking on you . I lost my wallet this morning getting out of my truck and a “ Good Samaritan” out there picked it up before I could walk back to get it , and is “ holding it for me now “ . So bear with me while I take it out on you .

I hate when that happens. One morning about 20 years ago during my morning commute when I worked in downtown Houston, I stopped for breakfast for 5 minutes at a McDonalds on the beltway, and when I got back to my car my laptop had done flew off!

 

[luthervol]

You are on a different planet. Were you or your family immigrants, because you have a strange obsession with the power of the bureaucrat

Born and raised in the south, both sides had been here for generations. Hard working blue collar, religious parents.
The one difference may be this; my parents got married their senior year of high school. My dad was forced to drop out.
He got his high school diploma form Watkins night school in Nashville when he was 25, I saw him graduate.
At 32 he started college at UT Nashville while continuing to work full time. I saw him graduate from college when he was 36.
There was always a premium put on education in our house. That has carried over to my kids and all of my nieces and nephews.
All received great educations in public schools, went on to college, and are now very successful. (Except my son, he's starting his senior in high school)

 

[mr.checkerboards]

Edit : I am picking on you . I lost my wallet this morning getting out of my truck and a “ Good Samaritan” out there picked it up before I could walk back to get it , and is “ holding it for me now “ . So bear with me while I take it out on you .

Damn. I hope you get it back. I lost my wallet once, it was at my senior prom. someone found it and they returned it to me, but I noticed a $20 was missing. TBH though I was happy they didnt find the $100 I had tucked away in one of the pockets.