Football isn’t happening...

[Behr]

Why would he need to prove it. to you. I accept his statement and don’t have any reason to believe he is distorting facts. Not every one who died had pre-existing conditions.

That's one of the funny things about all this. If he did actually figure out a way to prove it beyond a shadow of doubt, the response would be "lol, that's just one".

 

[BigOrangeFanatic]

I ain’t saying that, just acknowledging the kind of stuff they have to deal with, and golly forbid a worst case scenario.

I didn't even read your post until after you responded to mine. But still....cancel everything!

 

[ManboyVol]

Statistically, a healthy 18 year old - 22 year old has the same chance of dying from the Wuhan Flu as they do from ghosts or werewolves. But, it is important to ruin things people care about, like college football, so people get pissed off and vote a certain way in the election. Any appeal to science or facts is drowned out by nonsense. By fear. You are all being manipulated.

 

[Behr]

Statistically, a healthy 18 year old - 22 year old has the same chance of dying from the Wuhan Flu as they do from ghosts or werewolves. But, it is important to ruin things people care about, like college football, so people get pissed off and vote a certain way in the election. Any appeal to science or facts is drowned out by nonsense. By fear. You are all being manipulated.

Obviously everyone should be listening to you.

 

[MAUSERWERKE]

Easy, just don't test athletes unless they feel sick. They are in the peak shape of their lives, and the risk of them dying is almost zilch. Anyone who works with them that is vulnerable needs to take precautions.

Every authority and article I have read about the virus and sports resumption indicates that repeated testing, contact tracing and quarantining is the only way to move forward.

Do you seriously think a university is going to invite their student athletes back to campus (but not the general student population), require the athletes to play in an environment where they can easily contract and spread the virus, and then not frequently test them? That scenario will never happen.

 

[lostsheep]

All this could be solved if the election could be moved up to the first of August. After that the covid will ride off into the sunset until its needed again.

Right...the same way it just disappeared once the weather turned hot.

 

[Bleed-Orange]

Right...the same way it just disappeared once the weather turned hot.

Your missing the point and the reason for this whole thing being pushed to be the big bad wolf.

 

[sjt18]

The first shutdowns were warranted.

In time, after the public is no longer paying close attention and the political costs to the media and "leaders" has lessened... you will see studies showing that the shutdowns were either not necessary at all or lasted too long. There have been a few VERY isolated instances when medical facilities were stressed... but they were never overwhelmed and would not have been had the shutdowns either not occurred or had ended at Easter as originally planned.

COVID has killed 130-135 thousand in 4 months.

That is objectively untrue. Many people repeat it. Many apparently believe it. But it isn't true. The WORST you can say based on the information that we ACTUALLY have access to is that 130 or so million have died WITH Covid-19. Being killed by and dying "with" something are two entirely different things.

According to the CDC website as of the last month, only 7% of those listed as Covid fatalities have Covid listed as THE cause of death. CDC has not released a public breakdown of the rest to my knowledge. We KNOW that Birx instructed medical officials to list Covid as a cause of death in ANY case where the person was positive or suspected of being positive whether Covid actually killed them or not.

The average Covid fatality is around 80 years old and has 2.5 comorbidities. From CDC's numbers, well over 40% have some serious lung condition... well over 40% have a serious heart condition.

You have about 6 states all led by Dems that have BADLY mismanaged the response. Start with what they did WRONG... and part of it was their shutdowns.

The range for annual flu deaths since 2010 is 12k to 62k, (source CDC).

The CDC KNOWS that it undercounts the flu (source CDC). In fact, Oregon and possibly other states have NOT REPORTED flu deaths. Why? Because they most often lead to another illness or aggravate existing health conditions.... EXACTLY how Covid impacts deaths in 93% of the supposed "Covid deaths". If the flu were counted as carefully and "liberally" as Covid is being counted then we would have 100-200K flu deaths every year.

If most of the country had not shut down who knows how many deaths would have happened, probably doubled or more.

LOL... so if you were +6 on the front 9 and -3 on the back nine that would give you a different score than if you were +3 on both? Delaying a death by a few months does not mean you have less deaths.

The objective was to flatten the curve... not prevent deaths. But the shutdown is NOT what ended the outbreak in NYC. Time did. Exposure did.

We had states that mismanaged the virus WHILE SHUT DOWN. That is where most of the deaths occurred.

This virus is not comparable and has done much more damage than the Flu.

The viruses are not the same species. They are not completely comparable when it comes to treatment. They ARE comparable when it comes to impact.

PROVE objectively that the virus itself has done more damage. You cannot objectively use the death counts because of the way the two are counted differently. Hospitalizations? Nope. Not even close. Number of total cases? Closer to half at worst.

The only reason Covid has done more damage is the lockdowns. The economic damage has been profound. Damage to mental and emotional health has been significant. "Deaths of despair" have risen.

Even physical health deaths are being impacted. People are going to die who otherwise would not have due to missing or delaying other medical treatments. Unlike the average Covid victim, these are often people with many potentially healthy years of life left.... specifically cancer patients and those needing other corrective surgeries.

I hope we do not shut down the country again and try to find ways to protect the at risk population especially if the death rates continue to fall.

Me too but that MUST start with an honest perspective on the virus as an objective, measurable problem. We cannot let the media continue to lead us around with hysterical reporting. We NEED CDC to do an honest comparative analysis between the flu and Covid so we can KNOW what kind of threat we're dealing with. If they were counted the same... I would bet my paycheck they would be very similar in impact OR flu would actually impact more deaths than Covid. If you did just a little research it is very likely you could find a relative who died when the flu pushed them over the edge... whose death certificate says "natural causes".

Notice how this has evolved in the media. They rushed out with the claims that millions were going to die in the US from this virus if radical action wasn't taken. That was NEVER true. They told us that children were vulnerable and schools had to be closed... that wasn't true. They told us the WHOLE COUNTRY had to be shut down at once instead of restrictions on areas with outbreaks... that was never true. They told us it spread easily on surfaces which made touching the door handle at Walmart a life-threatening choice... that wasn't true. They told us the virus would spread to MORE people MUCH FASTER than it has even in the "open" states the media are now frenzied over. They told us our medical facilities were going to be overwhelmed... that didn't even happen in NYC where the virus did in fact get out of control.

You can assign whatever motives you want to the narrative we've been fed and the people who have pushed it... but they've been consistently wrong about most things. But in the end... you have to compare the narrative to the numbers. Absent the inflated death numbers that have been intentionally and systematically overcounted (using flu death counts as the standard for viruses)... the numbers do NOT support the hysterical response.

 

[sjt18]

Right...the same way it just disappeared once the weather turned hot.

Have you compared the death rates among the infected between April and July?

There is no doubt whatsoever that MANY asymptomatic and mildly symptomatic cases were NOT counted when the death counts peaked. Contact tracing is identifying many of those people now. Expanded testing is identifying some. IOW's, there is a very good chance that the warm weather IS helping.

 

[lostsheep]

Have you compared the death rates among the infected between April and July?

IMO, this is comparable to trying to claim victory in Vietnam based on daily body bag counts.

 

[ABINGDON VOL FAN]

In time, after the public is no longer paying close attention and the political costs to the media and "leaders" has lessened... you will see studies showing that the shutdowns were either not necessary at all or lasted too long. There have been a few VERY isolated instances when medical facilities were stressed... but they were never overwhelmed and would not have been had the shutdowns either not occurred or had ended at Easter as originally planned.
That is objectively untrue. Many people repeat it. Many apparently believe it. But it isn't true. The WORST you can say based on the information that we ACTUALLY have access to is that 130 or so million have died WITH Covid-19. Being killed by and dying "with" something are two entirely different things.

According to the CDC website as of the last month, only 7% of those listed as Covid fatalities have Covid listed as THE cause of death. CDC has not released a public breakdown of the rest to my knowledge. We KNOW that Birx instructed medical officials to list Covid as a cause of death in ANY case where the person was positive or suspected of being positive whether Covid actually killed them or not.

The average Covid fatality is around 80 years old and has 2.5 comorbidities. From CDC's numbers, well over 40% have some serious lung condition... well over 40% have a serious heart condition.

You have about 6 states all led by Dems that have BADLY mismanaged the response. Start with what they did WRONG... and part of it was their shutdowns.

The CDC KNOWS that it undercounts the flu (source CDC). In fact, Oregon and possibly other states have NOT REPORTED flu deaths. Why? Because they most often lead to another illness or aggravate existing health conditions.... EXACTLY how Covid impacts deaths in 93% of the supposed "Covid deaths". If the flu were counted as carefully and "liberally" as Covid is being counted then we would have 100-200K flu deaths every year.

LOL... so if you were +6 on the front 9 and -3 on the back nine that would give you a different score than if you were +3 on both? Delaying a death by a few months does not mean you have less deaths.

The objective was to flatten the curve... not prevent deaths. But the shutdown is NOT what ended the outbreak in NYC. Time did. Exposure did.

We had states that mismanaged the virus WHILE SHUT DOWN. That is where most of the deaths occurred.

The viruses are not the same species. They are not completely comparable when it comes to treatment. They ARE comparable when it comes to impact.

PROVE objectively that the virus itself has done more damage. You cannot objectively use the death counts because of the way the two are counted differently. Hospitalizations? Nope. Not even close. Number of total cases? Closer to half at worst.

The only reason Covid has done more damage is the lockdowns. The economic damage has been profound. Damage to mental and emotional health has been significant. "Deaths of despair" have risen.

Even physical health deaths are being impacted. People are going to die who otherwise would not have due to missing or delaying other medical treatments. Unlike the average Covid victim, these are often people with many potentially healthy years of life left.... specifically cancer patients and those needing other corrective surgeries.


Me too but that MUST start with an honest perspective on the virus as an objective, measurable problem. We cannot let the media continue to lead us around with hysterical reporting. We NEED CDC to do an honest comparative analysis between the flu and Covid so we can KNOW what kind of threat we're dealing with. If they were counted the same... I would bet my paycheck they would be very similar in impact OR flu would actually impact more deaths than Covid. If you did just a little research it is very likely you could find a relative who died when the flu pushed them over the edge... whose death certificate says "natural causes".

Notice how this has evolved in the media. They rushed out with the claims that millions were going to die in the US from this virus if radical action wasn't taken. That was NEVER true. They told us that children were vulnerable and schools had to be closed... that wasn't true. They told us the WHOLE COUNTRY had to be shut down at once instead of restrictions on areas with outbreaks... that was never true. They told us it spread easily on surfaces which made touching the door handle at Walmart a life-threatening choice... that wasn't true. They told us the virus would spread to MORE people MUCH FASTER than it has even in the "open" states the media are now frenzied over. They told us our medical facilities were going to be overwhelmed... that didn't even happen in NYC where the virus did in fact get out of control.

You can assign whatever motives you want to the narrative we've been fed and the people who have pushed it... but they've been consistently wrong about most things. But in the end... you have to compare the narrative to the numbers. Absent the inflated death numbers that have been intentionally and systematically overcounted (using flu death counts as the standard for viruses)... the numbers do NOT support the hysterical response.

I stand by my original post. The first shutdowns saved thousands or tens of thousands of
lives. If we can protect the vulnerable, a 2nd shutdown should not occur. It will be too costly to our country long-term. You can analyze and criticize the CDC’s numbers all day long but they are the official numbers.

 

[sjt18]

@ABINGDON VOL FAN On a different note.

One of the ways that I have implemented at work to protect my guess is bipolar ionization air purifiers. Check the case study at the bottom of this link. THESE are the kinds of solutions that would actually reduce risks AND allow us to go safely into bars, restaurants, schools, offices, elevators, trains, etc. So why on EARTH are we trying to make 325 million healthy people wear masks of HIGHLY questionable effectiveness instead?

People don't think this more than one layer deep and even then fail to question "just so" statements. Assuming the "experts" knew or were telling the truth has gotten us to where we are.

The key to preventing spread is lessening viral load when people are close to each other. Maintaining distance when possible is a good idea even without Covid. Masks are NOT particularly effective in most situations at preventing accumulated viral load. Ventilation and sunlight are EXCELLENT for doing that. The problem is when people spend all day safely on the beach with very little viral load... then crowd into bars at night or even hotels with shared HVAC return air.

Please forgive my frustration when people keep attacking the branches rather than the roots or making this bigger than the numbers say it is. And... I'm NOT saying it isn't a serious virus. If I am exactly right about the comparison between Covid and the flu... it is NOT good that we now have one more killer of end of life patients to deal with much less any additional deaths. IOW's, even if the combined flu, pneumonia, and Covid deaths are just 30% greater than the P&I deaths have been... that's still a problem.

PS- CDC combines P&I and Covid in a lot of their data to create a composite impact due to deadly common viruses.

iWave-R Air Purifier Nu-Calgon

 

[sjt18]

IMO, this is comparable to trying to claim victory in Vietnam based on daily body bag counts.

How is that?

Deaths and the IFR are dropping. We are discovering cases that would not have been counted previously. The gross death rates are dropping.... yet now the media has moved from counting "body bags" to counting "cases" to keep the public in a panic. Why? Why not solve the problem rather than distorting it?

 

[sjt18]

I stand by my original post. The first shutdowns saved thousands or tens of thousands of
lives. If we can protect the vulnerable, a 2nd shutdown should not occur. It will be too costly to our country long-term. You can analyze and criticize the CDC’s numbers all day long but they are the official numbers.

I'm not the one disagreeing with what the CDC's website says.

As for the first part... you can believe an objectively untrue thing if you want... but that doesn't make it stand up to the facts. The shutdowns were NEVER designed to save lives directly. They were designed to save lives by preventing medical facilities from being overwhelmed. In retrospect, we now know that was not going to happen.

 

[k-town_king]

And EVERY SINGLE YEAR healthy people catch the flu and die. Have we ever locked down the country or cancelled football season because people die of the flu?

Death rates are much higher.

Prove he didn’t have pre existing conditions beforehand.
(Also, condolences, for knowing him)

Why would I lie on this subject? It is pretty offensive to ask for proof of something like this.

I wasn't his Dr but from all I know he was a healthy 41 year old.

Why would he need to prove it. to you. I accept his statement and don’t have any reason to believe he is distorting facts. Not every one who died had pre-existing conditions.

Thanks.

Death and illness are nothing to play with. I have a few coworkers and friends who had family members out of town die as well. The others were all old or sick already.

 

[lostsheep]

How is that?

Deaths and the IFR are dropping. We are discovering cases that would not have been counted previously. The gross death rates are dropping.... yet now the media has moved from counting "body bags" to counting "cases" to keep the public in a panic. Why? Why not solve the problem rather than distorting it?

By most accounts, our government's handling of the Vietnam War was a disaster that cost many lives. This mishandling was only magnified when public mistrust grew and protests and riots became the norm. In order to flip the script and hopefully find a way to proclaim we were on our way to victory, the administration in charge at the time created a statistical model that would help them to proclaim things were going our way and that victory was imminent. In doing so, they portrayed a gross tone-deafness to the mood enveloping a great deal of the country.

By most accounts, this thing is currently spreading like wild-fire. Regardless of whether it means imminent death for me and my loved ones, IMO it is stupid for an administration to downplay and seemingly ignore the potential damage it can do. I'll wear a mask because at the end of the day it may keep me and my family (and the general public) safer than choosing to not wear one.

 

[Tennesseefan2019]

 

[johnsonbrewer]

Statistically, a healthy 18 year old - 22 year old has the same chance of dying from the Wuhan Flu as they do from ghosts or werewolves. But, it is important to ruin things people care about, like college football, so people get pissed off and vote a certain way in the election. Any appeal to science or facts is drowned out by nonsense. By fear. You are all being manipulated.

 

[Delmar]

On a separate note, the PGA Tour just announced that one of their biggest events, the WCG tournament in Memphis in late July, will be played but with no fans. They simply are not going to take the risk of letting thousands of fans be shoulder to shoulder even if it’s outside. We can talk all we want about what we want or what should happen but there are people in all these sports that will weigh a lot of factors before they let it happen. NCAA football may happen without fans too. Or it may not happen at all if more athletes and parents of athletes grow uncomfortable with the trends and won’t sign those liability waivers. All we can do is wait and see. The populace has no say in this.

 

[rdk4121]

I stand by my original post. The first shutdowns saved thousands or tens of thousands of
lives. If we can protect the vulnerable, a 2nd shutdown should not occur. It will be too costly to our country long-term. You can analyze and criticize the CDC’s numbers all day long but they are the official numbers.

I guess the problem is we didn't protect the vulnerable the first time. Certain governors sent the vulnerable back to where the other vulnerable people were causing an exponential amount of deaths in this certain states during the shutdown. If those four states in the Northeast had even a similar death rate to California (who has the second most cases, but didn't send nursing home patients back to nursing homes), there would be 44,700 less deaths in the US which would mean there would have been 91,458 currently. Don't get me wrong, that is bad, but a far cry from a world ending disease.

While I would like to agree that the shutdown could have been effective, due to really bad governing strategies, it really had no effect. Any positives it could have had were negated by those bad decisions.

 

[Vols1891]

Statistically, a healthy 18 year old - 22 year old has the same chance of dying from the Wuhan Flu as they do from ghosts or werewolves. But, it is important to ruin things people care about, like college football, so people get pissed off and vote a certain way in the election. Any appeal to science or facts is drowned out by nonsense. By fear. You are all being manipulated.

The mortality rate is far from the only thing that matters. Several recent studies have shown relatively high incidence rates of people developing lasting damage to the kidneys, lungs, and heart, as well as neurological complications. Some of these effects are expected to be long-term and may stay with people for the rest of their lives. And this is not just happening in people with severe cases of the virus...they are seeing it in young people who only had mild cases as well. I really feel like the long-term effect of this disease is the big thing many people are missing...instead, people are only focused on the deaths. Look at the recent studies and what the scientific and medical communities are saying, not the politicians.

 

[Vols1891]

Guess what it could potentially NOT last a lifetime.....its only been 6 to 8 months that this has even become a thing....no one knows....if you're scared stay home....

Of course no one knows for sure; I said that exact same thing in my post. You can smoke your entire life and never get cancer...still doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. I choose to put my trust in scientists and doctors though, and based on the best available information we have, there does appear to be a relatively high risk of long term organ damage from this virus. I certainly put a lot more faith in that than what my local politician believes. There is a reason the US has handled this worse than any other country on the planet, and it is due to the fact we have politicized the issue, and a certain segment of the population refuses to believe in science.

 

[508mikey]

Lou Holtz complains about the Big Ten cancelling out-of-conference games, saying risk is everywhere and “People stormed Normandy.”

 

[rdk4121]

On a separate note, the PGA Tour just announced that one of their biggest events, the WCG tournament in Memphis in late July, will be played but with no fans. They simply are not going to take the risk of letting thousands of fans be shoulder to shoulder even if it’s outside. We can talk all we want about what we want or what should happen but there are people in all these sports that will weigh a lot of factors before they let it happen. NCAA football may happen without fans too. Or it may not happen at all if more athletes and parents of athletes grow uncomfortable with the trends and won’t sign those liability waivers. All we can do is wait and see. The populace has no say in this.

I think there is zero chance there will be fans in the stadium if there is a season. Or they have to be distanced to such an extent that it doesn't matter. Vandy is already used to that.

 

[njvols]

In time, after the public is no longer paying close attention and the political costs to the media and "leaders" has lessened... you will see studies showing that the shutdowns were either not necessary at all or lasted too long. There have been a few VERY isolated instances when medical facilities were stressed... but they were never overwhelmed and would not have been had the shutdowns either not occurred or had ended at Easter as originally planned.
That is objectively untrue. Many people repeat it. Many apparently believe it. But it isn't true. The WORST you can say based on the information that we ACTUALLY have access to is that 130 or so million have died WITH Covid-19. Being killed by and dying "with" something are two entirely different things.

According to the CDC website as of the last month, only 7% of those listed as Covid fatalities have Covid listed as THE cause of death. CDC has not released a public breakdown of the rest to my knowledge. We KNOW that Birx instructed medical officials to list Covid as a cause of death in ANY case where the person was positive or suspected of being positive whether Covid actually killed them or not.

The average Covid fatality is around 80 years old and has 2.5 comorbidities. From CDC's numbers, well over 40% have some serious lung condition... well over 40% have a serious heart condition.

You have about 6 states all led by Dems that have BADLY mismanaged the response. Start with what they did WRONG... and part of it was their shutdowns.

The CDC KNOWS that it undercounts the flu (source CDC). In fact, Oregon and possibly other states have NOT REPORTED flu deaths. Why? Because they most often lead to another illness or aggravate existing health conditions.... EXACTLY how Covid impacts deaths in 93% of the supposed "Covid deaths". If the flu were counted as carefully and "liberally" as Covid is being counted then we would have 100-200K flu deaths every year.

LOL... so if you were +6 on the front 9 and -3 on the back nine that would give you a different score than if you were +3 on both? Delaying a death by a few months does not mean you have less deaths.

The objective was to flatten the curve... not prevent deaths. But the shutdown is NOT what ended the outbreak in NYC. Time did. Exposure did.

We had states that mismanaged the virus WHILE SHUT DOWN. That is where most of the deaths occurred.

The viruses are not the same species. They are not completely comparable when it comes to treatment. They ARE comparable when it comes to impact.

PROVE objectively that the virus itself has done more damage. You cannot objectively use the death counts because of the way the two are counted differently. Hospitalizations? Nope. Not even close. Number of total cases? Closer to half at worst.

The only reason Covid has done more damage is the lockdowns. The economic damage has been profound. Damage to mental and emotional health has been significant. "Deaths of despair" have risen.

Even physical health deaths are being impacted. People are going to die who otherwise would not have due to missing or delaying other medical treatments. Unlike the average Covid victim, these are often people with many potentially healthy years of life left.... specifically cancer patients and those needing other corrective surgeries.


Me too but that MUST start with an honest perspective on the virus as an objective, measurable problem. We cannot let the media continue to lead us around with hysterical reporting. We NEED CDC to do an honest comparative analysis between the flu and Covid so we can KNOW what kind of threat we're dealing with. If they were counted the same... I would bet my paycheck they would be very similar in impact OR flu would actually impact more deaths than Covid. If you did just a little research it is very likely you could find a relative who died when the flu pushed them over the edge... whose death certificate says "natural causes".

Notice how this has evolved in the media. They rushed out with the claims that millions were going to die in the US from this virus if radical action wasn't taken. That was NEVER true. They told us that children were vulnerable and schools had to be closed... that wasn't true. They told us the WHOLE COUNTRY had to be shut down at once instead of restrictions on areas with outbreaks... that was never true. They told us it spread easily on surfaces which made touching the door handle at Walmart a life-threatening choice... that wasn't true. They told us the virus would spread to MORE people MUCH FASTER than it has even in the "open" states the media are now frenzied over. They told us our medical facilities were going to be overwhelmed... that didn't even happen in NYC where the virus did in fact get out of control.

You can assign whatever motives you want to the narrative we've been fed and the people who have pushed it... but they've been consistently wrong about most things. But in the end... you have to compare the narrative to the numbers. Absent the inflated death numbers that have been intentionally and systematically overcounted (using flu death counts as the standard for viruses)... the numbers do NOT support the hysterical response.

OK...I guess all those folks in Florida are just hanging out in the maxed out ICU's for the hell of it. It's all a big conspiracy.