Systemic Racism

#1,026
#1,026
Chris4Vols22 said:
Ok, I have a stupid and legitimate question...

Can anyone succinctly explain the plight of the Jewish people to me? I've never had any Jewish friends (that I'm aware of) that have ever touched on that subject. Why did Hitler hate them so much? Why are there anti-Jew hate groups?

I'm sincerely ignorant and curious.
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@Orangeslice13
 
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#1,027
#1,027
Chris4Vols22 said:
Ok, I have a stupid and legitimate question...

Can anyone succinctly explain the plight of the Jewish people to me? I've never had any Jewish friends (that I'm aware of) that have ever touched on that subject. Why did Hitler hate them so much? Why are there anti-Jew hate groups?

I'm sincerely ignorant and curious.
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They were a wealthy religious minority. Jews already had faced persecution and had a bad image as money hungry etc. When a depression hit they were an easy target. They also had many assets to seize.
 
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#1,028
#1,028
Chris4Vols22 said:
Ok, I have a stupid and legitimate question...

Can anyone succinctly explain the plight of the Jewish people to me? I've never had any Jewish friends (that I'm aware of) that have ever touched on that subject. Why did Hitler hate them so much? Why are there anti-Jew hate groups?

I'm sincerely ignorant and curious.
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Pretty good summation
Anti-Semitism
 
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k-town_king said:
They were a wealthy religious minority. Jews already had faced persecution and had a bad image as money hungry etc. When a depression hit they were an easy target. They also had many assets to seize.
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I see. I kinda gathered those pieces, but I never put them all together.
 
#1,032
#1,032
k-town_king said:
Wrong. Stop making excuses for racism.

Employers Prefer White Felons Over Blacks With No Criminal Record; So, How Will Blacks Feed Their Families? - Rolling Out

White High School Drop-Outs Are As Likely To Land Jobs As Black College Students

African-Americans With College Degrees Are Twice As Likely to Be Unemployed as Other Graduates

A Black College Student Has The Same Chances Of Getting A Job As A White High School Dropout
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I actually linked to and quoted a black man's article.

Your first link doesn't even link to any data.

Your second link linked to a report that no longer exists, but the article itself said:

The report ventures numerous theories to explain the employment gap between the races and a list of proposed solutions.
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So even the report itself can't and hasn't actually tied it back top racism, which is understandable since statistical correlation != causation.

Your third link states a statistical reality (I guess. I didn't check the stats.) But it NEVER comes out and states the underlying cause. They allude and try to help us reach our own assumptions. A couple of questions would be whether there are any other data correlations that could explain the phenomena. How did the potential employers know the applicants' race?

Interestingly from the fourth link:

The study attributes the employment gap mainly to hiring discrimination, high incarceration rates for black people, and African Americans’ lack of inherited wealth from past generations due to a long history of discrimination. Less inherited wealth results in low homeownership rates and high deficits among African Americans: While a college-educated white American has an average net worth of $75,000, a college-educated black American has a net worth of less than $17,500.
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Interestingly, the study attributed this to discrimination, but the article didn't show what statistical proof moved this from a statistical correlation to a statistical cause. As well as a poverty gap, which I have stated is the major problem in the country.
 
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#1,033
#1,033
Orange_Crush said:
This was born out by Thomas Howell in the article Midnight posted yesterday (such a great read!).



That's not a racial issue. It's a cultural disparity issue. In colonial America, there wasn't much race to divide over, but there were cultural differences that divided, and certain assumptions per people groups, depending on where they immigrated from. There may be perceived cultural differences today between the professional working culture and a certain subculture.

If you attached this picture to a resume, would they get the call-back? Would it be because of racial issues, or assumptions about the individual based on the subculture they're identified with?

White_Weezy2.jpg

If the following two pictures were attached to resumes, which one do you think would get a call-back?

redneck_t1200.JPG

SulaimanRahman.jpg


Is it racial? Or tied to perceptions about certain sub-cultures?
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That's my thinking. Its complete crap that a name can influence a resume. Crap as in it's bad, not that the names dont influence. But considering that a name is just a name I have a hard time assigning racial values to it. The first L'amonjello I met was white. I know two La'Michaels (spelling slightly different) both white.

It's kinda amazing I can sit there and read these lists and assign everything in them to white people, until they get to actual race.

Maybes it because I grew up around more poor white people than I did middle class, but in all these "racist" lists and problems I assign all those qualities to white people I know rather than any AA i know. And it always shocks me that the argument is that these are racially AA issues.
 
#1,034
#1,034
Chris4Vols22 said:
I would think that would be a significant factor. I'm all ears :)
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From a prophetic perspective, Israel is Yahweh's chosen people, through whom God had promised to bless the world by producing the Messiah, thus crushing Satan's head. More so, they are called to be His chosen, holy (different) people.

So it would be considered a spiritual war against them by this fallen world system and the demonic powers that run it. It would be considered cultural integration problems as well.
 
#1,035
#1,035
k-town_king said:
Wrong. Stop making excuses for racism.

Employers Prefer White Felons Over Blacks With No Criminal Record; So, How Will Blacks Feed Their Families? - Rolling Out

White High School Drop-Outs Are As Likely To Land Jobs As Black College Students

African-Americans With College Degrees Are Twice As Likely to Be Unemployed as Other Graduates

A Black College Student Has The Same Chances Of Getting A Job As A White High School Dropout
Click to expand...
Wait this is the issue we are dealing with? A 5% at worst difference?
Among black and white men who have earned bachelor’s degrees, the unemployment gap is only 5%. For black women who have bachelor’s degrees, the gap with whites is just 3%. For blacks and whites who earn professional degrees, the gap almost disappears.
Click to expand...
 
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#1,036
#1,036
LouderVol said:
That's my thinking. Its complete crap that a name can influence a resume. Crap as in it's bad, not that the names dont influence. But considering that a name is just a name I have a hard time assigning racial values to it. The first L'amonjello I met was white. I know two La'Michaels (spelling slightly different) both white.

It's kinda amazing I can sit there and read these lists and assign everything in them to white people, until they get to actual race.

Maybes it because I grew up around more poor white people than I did middle class, but in all these "racist" lists and problems I assign all those qualities to white people I know rather than any AA i know. And it always shocks me that the argument is that these are racially AA issues.
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I'm not claiming it's right. I'm just saying that it's most likely not racist as much as it is cultural assumptions and conformist mindset from professional America. And I work in professional America. It is incredibly conformist-demanding, though Millennials in the workplace are pushing change there.
 
#1,037
#1,037
The following statistics come from the National Registry of Exonerations in the Newkirk Center for Science and Society at The University of California, Irvine. This information was published on March 7, 2017 by Samuel R. Gross, Senior Editor and Maurice Possley, Senior Researcher.

Executive Summary: African-Americans are only 13% of the American population, but they comprise a majority of the innocent defendants wrongfully convicted of crimes and later exonerated. African-Americans constitute 47% of the 1,900 exonerations listed in the National Registry of Exonerations (as of October 2016), and the great majority of more than 1,800 additional innocent defendants who were framed and convicted of crimes in 15 large-scale police scandals and later cleared in "group exonerations". We see this racial disparity for all major crime categories, but they were more closely examined in this report in the context of the three types of crime that produce the largest numbers of exonerations from within the Registry: Murder, Sexual Assault, and Drug Crimes.

MURDER

  • Judging from exonerations, innocent black people are about seven times more likely to be convicted of murder than innocent white people. A major cause of the high number of black murder exonerations is the high homicide rate in the black community.
  • African-American prisoners who are convicted of murder are about 50% more likely to be innocent than other convicted murderers. Part of that disparity is tied to the race of the victim. African-Americans imprisoned for murder are more likely to be innocent if they were convicted of killing white victims. However, only about 15% of murders by African-Americans involve a white victim, even though 31% of innocent African-American murder exonerees were convicted of killing white people.
  • The convictions that led to murder exonerations with black defendants were 22% more likely to include misconduct by police officers than those with white defendants. In addition, on average black murder exonerees, and those sentenced to death spent four years longer.
SEXUAL ASSAULT

  • Judging from exonerations, a black prisoner serving time for sexual assault is three and a half times more likely to be innocent than a white sexual assault convict. The major cause for this huge racial disparity appears to be the high danger of mistaken eyewitness identification by white victims in violent crimes involving black assailants.
  • Assaults on white women by African-American men comprise a small minority of all sexual assaults in the United States, but they constitute half of sexual assaults with eyewitness misidentifications that lead to exonerations. The unreliability of cross-racial eyewitness identification also appears to have contributed to racial disparities in false convictions for other crimes, but to a lesser extent.
  • African-American sexual assault exonerees received much longer prison sentences than white sexual assault exonerees, and they spent on average almost four and a half years longer in prison before exoneration. It appears that innocent black sexual assault defendants receive harsher sentences than whites if they are convicted, and then face greater resistance to exoneration even in cases in which they are ultimately released.
DRUG CRIMES

  • The best national evidence on drug use shows that African-Americans and whites use illegal drugs at about the same rate. Nonetheless, African-Americans are about five times as likely to go to prison for drug possession as whites and judging from exonerations, innocent black people are about 12 times more likely to be convicted of drug crimes than innocent white people.
  • In general, very few ordinary, low-level drug convictions result in exoneration because the stakes are too low. In Harris County, Texas, however, there have been 133 exonerations in ordinary drug possession cases in the last few years. These are cases in which defendants pled guilty, and were exonerated after routine lab tests showed they were not carrying illegal drugs. Sixty-two percent of the Harris County drug-crime guilty plea exonerees were African-American in a county with only 20% black residents.
  • The main reason for this racial disproportion in convictions of innocent drug defendants is that police enforce drug laws more vigorously against African-Americans than against members of the white majority, despite strong evidence that both groups use drugs at equivalent rates. African-Americans are more frequently stopped, searched, arrested, and convicted - including in cases in which they are later proven to be innocent. The extreme form of this practice is systematic racial profiling in drug-law enforcement.
  • Since 1989, more than 1,800 defendants have been cleared in "group exonerations" that followed 15 large-scale police scandals in which officers systematically framed innocent defendants. The great majority were African-American defendants who were framed for drug crimes that never occurred.

********************

There is overwhelming evidence to support the belief that a black person in the United States is more likely to be falsely convicted of a crime than a white person, and that black people are disproportionately targeted by the police for drug-related law enforcement. To argue otherwise, is to either be ignorant of the statistics, or to be in denial of the facts. If I was to start with examples of systemic racism in the United States, I would start with law enforcement and our system of justice. Whether a conscious racial bias is at work or not... black people do not receive equal protection under the law as white people.
 
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#1,038
#1,038
System of justice....public defenders are not a system nor do they do their jobs, for the most part.

This is an example that needs to be used more, as it carries real weight.

Not crime, or committing crime, or getting caught, or reasons for it, but, the inability to pay for better representation.
 
#1,039
#1,039
Reformation of the justice system is what these people should be protesting. If people on trial had the same resources to defend themselves as the prosecutor does in trying to convict them much of the policing problems would fix themselves.
 
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#1,040
#1,040
BowlBrother85 said:
The following statistics come from the National Registry of Exonerations in the Newkirk Center for Science and Society at The University of California, Irvine. This information was published on March 7, 2017 by Samuel R. Gross, Senior Editor and Maurice Possley, Senior Researcher.

Executive Summary: African-Americans are only 13% of the American population, but they comprise a majority of the innocent defendants wrongfully convicted of crimes and later exonerated. African-Americans constitute 47% of the 1,900 exonerations listed in the National Registry of Exonerations (as of October 2016), and the great majority of more than 1,800 additional innocent defendants who were framed and convicted of crimes in 15 large-scale police scandals and later cleared in "group exonerations". We see this racial disparity for all major crime categories, but they were more closely examined in this report in the context of the three types of crime that produce the largest numbers of exonerations from within the Registry: Murder, Sexual Assault, and Drug Crimes.

MURDER

  • Judging from exonerations, innocent black people are about seven times more likely to be convicted of murder than innocent white people. A major cause of the high number of black murder exonerations is the high homicide rate in the black community.
  • African-American prisoners who are convicted of murder are about 50% more likely to be innocent than other convicted murderers. Part of that disparity is tied to the race of the victim. African Americans imprisoned for murder are more likely to be innocent if the were convicted of killing white victims. However, only about 15% of murders by African-Americans involve a white victim, even though 31% of innocent African American murder exonerees were convicted of killing white people.
  • The convictions that led to murder exonerations with black defendants were 22% more likely to include misconduct by police officers than those with white defendants. In addition, on average black murder exonerees, and those sentenced to death spent four years longer.
SEXUAL ASSAULT

  • Judging from exonerations, a black prisoner serving time for sexual assault is three and a half times more likely to be innocent than a white sexual assault convict. The major cause for this huge racial disparity appears to be the high danger of mistaken eyewitness identification by white victims in violent crimes involving black assailants.
  • Assaults on white women by African-American men comprise a small minority of all sexual assaults in the United States, but they constitute half of sexual assaults with eyewitness misidentifications that lead to exonerations. The unreliability of cross-racial eyewitness identification also appears to have contributed to racial disparities in false convictions for other crimes, but to a lesser extent.
  • African-American sexual assault exonerees received much longer prison sentences than white sexual assault exonerees, and they spent on average almost four and a half years longer in prison before exoneration. It appears that innocent black sexual assault defendants receive harsher sentences than whites if they are convicted, and then face greater resistance to exoneration even in cases in which they are ultimately released.
DRUG CRIMES

  • The best national evidence on drug use shows that African Americans and whites use illegal drugs at about the same rate. Nonetheless, African-Americans are about five times as likely to go to prison for drug possession as whites and judging from exonerations, innocent black people are about 12 times more likely to be convicted of drug crimes than innocent white people.
  • In general, very few ordinary, low-level drug convictions result in exoneration because the stakes are too low. In Harris County, Texas, however, there have been 133 exonerations in ordinary drug possession cases in the last few years. These are cases in which defendants pled guilty, and were exonerated after routine lab tests showed they were not carrying illegal drugs. Sixty-two percent of the Harris County drug-crime guilty plea exonerees were African-American in a county with only 20% black residents.
  • The main reason for this racial disproportion in convictions of innocent drug defendants is that police enforce drug laws more vigorously against African-Americans than against members of the white majority, despite strong evidence that both groups use drugs at equivalent rates. African-Americans are more frequently stopped, searched, arrested, and convicted - including in cases in which they are later proven to be innocent. The extreme form of this practice is systematic racial profiling in drug-law enforcement.
  • Since 1989, more than 1,800 defendants have been cleared in "group exonerations" that followed 15 large-scale police scandals in which officers systematically framed innocent defendants. The great majority were African-American defendants who were framed for drug crimes that never occurred.

********************

There is overwhelming evidence to support the belief that a black person in the United States is more likely to be falsely convicted of a crime than a white person, and that black people are disproportionately targeted by the police for drug-related law enforcement. To argue otherwise, is to either be ignorant of the statistics, or to be in denial of the facts. If I was to start with examples of systemic racism in the United States, I would start with law enforcement and our system of justice. Whether a conscious racial bias is at work or not... black people do not receive equal protection under the law as white people.
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Lawyers vs public defendants.

Even if you get a lawyer doing his good deed there is no way they have the resources they would if they were getting paid their standard rate.

My cousin is a public defender in Nashville. He tells horror stories of what he comes up against. It's mostly that a good defense costs money, more than most can afford. There a number of things that he cant do on his own/with his case load. The other half is the defendant taking things into their own hands. Blurting something out, yelling at the judges or even getting physical while in court.

But again based on his input I still believe this is largely a money issue when it comes to actual court cases. Which is all types of wrong, not racial.

No idea about the targeting, because obviously there are cases of that being racial.
 
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#1,041
#1,041
LouderVol said:
Lawyers vs public defendants.

Even if you get a lawyer doing his good deed there is no way they have the resources they would if they were getting paid their standard rate.

My cousin is a public defender in Nashville. He tells horror stories of what he comes up against. It's mostly that a good defense costs money, more than most can afford. There a number of things that he cant do on his own/with his case load. The other half is the defendant taking things into their own hands. Blurting something out, yelling at the judges or even getting physical while in court.

But again based on his input I still believe this is largely a money issue when it comes to actual court cases. Which is all types of wrong, not racial.

No idea about the targeting, because obviously there are cases of that being racial.
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Now, as my earlier posts pointed out... Combine that with the entitlements programs that have more blacks living in public housing and poverty, which are high crime rate areas... Of course there will be an inordinate amount of black arrests, and once arrested, poor blacks that can't afford to pay for a defense.

I'll say it again... There is definitely institutional racism. I just don't think it exists where everyone is pointing as much as it's what keeps getting voted back in to run the districts they live in.
 
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#1,042
#1,042
Orange_Crush said:
Now, as my earlier posts pointed out... Combine that with the entitlements programs that have more blacks living in public housing and poverty, which are high crime rate areas... Of course there will be an inordinate amount of black arrests, and once arrested, poor blacks that can't afford to pay for a defense.

I'll say it again... There is definitely institutional racism. I just don't think it exists where everyone is pointing as much as it's what keeps getting voted back in to run the districts they live in.
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It certainly does exist in law enforcement. Particularly, in how drug-related crimes are enforced. The statistics are clear.
 
#1,044
#1,044
tennvols77 said:
How they are prosecuted, or worse, plead down, by pathetic public defenders.
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That is a part of the problem no doubt, but it's more than that. Predominantly African-American communities are targeted for drug-law enforcement. Racial profiling is real and the rights of black people are more likely to be violated during the course of an investigation or sting operation than the rights of white people.
 
#1,045
#1,045
BowlBrother85 said:
It certainly does exist in law enforcement. Particularly, in how drug-related crimes are enforced. The statistics are clear.
Click to expand...

I say again, it starts in the courtroom. It's easy to get convictions/guilty pleas from poor people of any color so if you want to reform policing start with reform in the justice system.
 
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#1,047
#1,047
hog88 said:
I say again, it starts in the courtroom. It's easy to get convictions/guilty pleas from poor people of any color so if you want to reform policing start with reform in the justice system.
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Except that it literally starts with the arrest.
 
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