George Floyd Protest/Riots

#7,552
#7,552
NashVol11 said:
“Here are some people who should be shot, here are some people who hate the USA, everyone else is indoctrinated...but where’s the brotherly love?” Lol
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Look man, you do not seem to be a racist like point guard or Ktown, both of which need only to speak their views to show what they are about, but you do seem intent on stoking the flames of division and making the protests about racism rather than police brutality. That means you and I are not going to agree. Pretty sure I have read every post in this thread, as well as most of the links.

I am a hardworking white guy with 2 black sisters that were raised by my parents, in our home, and I have loved and supported them for my entire life. We have absolutely nothing to prove to you or those 2 racists anymore than we have to white supremacists. We were raised to fear only God, and not entertain foolishness. These clowns from BLM rioting, looting, beating, and killing because they are morally bankrupt are no better than members of the Klan. All are a bunch of opportunistic fools trying to divide people so they can be controlled. I am not what you are about, and want no part of it....and neither do any of my 3 sisters. None of us will be protesting a black man killed by a garbage cop while 88% of blacks are killed by black men.

I raise my kids to be God fearing Christians and they share my conservative values. We keep to ourselves and mind our own. I will tell you just like I told a few rednecks right here in this forum in a thread about some fictional "race war" because BLM rioters will get the exact same treatment from us as white supremacists trying to harm my sisters.... we have 11 acres mostly on top of a ridge in Sevier County. Should ANY of you FOOLS be you white , black, green, or purple, seek to harm us or destroy our way of life...that is where we will be. There is 1 way in, and 1 way out. A long, steep, well maintained gravel driveway up to the well stocked homestead we have there. Anyone attempting to enter this property from the road below doesnt stand a chance unless they own a well armored tank. We will shoot "on sight " . This applies to everyone equally, death is not a respecter of persons.

The ignorant ideas such as defunding the police are not welcome around me and mine. Neither are socialism, liberalism, or any other foolish notions that run counter to the Bible or the Constitution. These are our beliefs. You are certainly welcome to believe whatever you choose to believe. If those core beliefs do not align with mine...we probably do not have much to talk about besides UT football. I dont come to VN to form my opinions or defend my beliefs. We are solidly comfortable in our skins, which tone varies greatly indeed. Those who are seeking to divide this Republic and stoke this irrational anger and hate do not have a voice in our lives. Just like the MSM, the ignorance that comes from their mouths falls on deaf ears of disinterest. Best wishes to you and yours.

Go Vols.
 
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#7,554
#7,554
NCFisher said:
He actually referred to the weekend rioting at the gates and perimeter grounds, the decision was made Monday morning to expand the perimeter.

As they began to do so, officers were already coming under assault. Protesters were asked several times to retreat a block, the protesters refused, and the police moved them. Have you seen an audiologist?

What I am doing is instructing a lawyer who can't comprehend a simple press conference, nor support his argument that the perimeter extension was unnecessary or a violation of rights, or that Barr is lying about it. (This is the point you provide your "verification")
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Somebody stopped listening halfway through Barr’s answer. Makes sense. He tends to drone when he’s lying.

The video(s) speak for themselves.
 
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#7,555
#7,555
DynaLo said:
Oh, so you want me to go back to a previous post of yours to find the lie you called out?

See, your post combined two things in item 1, one part being true, previous violent protests, and one being unverifiable, perimeter expansion.

Item 2 you posted is also true as evidenced in the video you posted where between the 27-30 minute time stamp, protestors throw things at LE/MP, protesters up by the rail turn and start shouting not to throw things. They are now considered a hostile crowd.
The only part unverifiable, by the video you posted, is reports that protesters were also throwing things at the LE off to the far left and out of that particular camera view.
Click to expand...

Oh so you want me to repeat myself to catch you up on a conversation that you jumped in the middle of?

I’ll mark these clearly so you don’t get confused, again.

Response to your post: To say that the gathering in Lafayette Park was a “violent protest” is a lie.

Argument Supporting of Response: A violent protest isn’t something you have to watch three or four times to catch. You know it when you see it. I did eventually find the footage of the one styrofoam cup that got tossed. Probably a half-dozen people turned and shouted not to throw things, which you could then hear echoed by dozens of others behind them. For the other 28 minutes of the video preceding the “assault” by police, nothing was thrown and no new debris ends up on the ground when the camera would pan away. There was no contact between police and protestors other than one officer carefully pushing a woman away to give himself a bit of space in front of the barricade. She complied. It appeared mutually respectful. Most of the protestors were on their knees with their hands raised after the police approached the barricade. Furthermore, there are numerous eyewitness accounts available for anyone willing to google and read them. These too say it was nonviolent.

Conclusion of Response: The video speaks for itself. It makes clear that this wasn’t a riot or a violent protest sufficient to warrant the government applying that level of force against the entire crowd. The crowd was overwhelmingly peaceful, policed itself with regard to one incident, and was clearly not a threat to the police or endorsing dangerous behavior.

My Main Idea: The context of Barr’s statement isn’t simply that the protest was violent, but that this was part of the justification for the timing of “expanding the perimeter.“ Even if reasonable minds could differ about the nature of the protest, to say that this was part of the justification is clearly a lie.

Argument Supporting Main Idea: The police launched tear gas and smoke at the crowd at approx. 28:30 in the video, but they had been redeploying in anticipation of moving on the crowd for almost the entire video. You can see more officers arriving and see them all redeploying. By the time anything was thrown, they’re already moving into position and advancing on the barricade. Other officers formed up on H Street about 5 minutes before they launch the gas. This is consistent with eyewitness accounts and yoi can see people pointing and looking and talking about it. This clearly signals theit intent to move the crowd and it happens well before the police in front of the camera walk up to the barricade (which is when the lone styrofoam cup is thrown.) So they had already decided to move the protestors before anything happened.

But wait there’s more: still argument supporting main idea Trump walked into the rose garden for a press conference while the protest was still ongoing. He delivered a 10ish minute speech and ends by announcing his intent to walk to St. John’s Episcopal. If the decision to gas the protestors prior to curfew was a spontaneous reaction to their violence, Trump would not have known the path would be clear for him to go to the Church. He had to know before the speech started that they would be gone when his speech was concluded. Presidential schedules being what they are, he knew when they would start removing the protestors. It was preplanned.

Conclusion of Main Idea: The timing of the redeployment, and Trump’s own words prove that this was premeditated and not a reaction to nonexistent violence, which was half of Barr’s justification.

Dispensing with the other half of Barr’s excuse: Premeditation is partially consistent with but not conclusive of “expanding the perimeter.” However, the timing is inconsistent with the reasoning. The perimeter expansion was supposed to be a safety measure. Timing it during an ongoing, lawful protest and using force to expel the protestors was clearly not safe for either the protestors or the officers. This is why Barr had to lie about the violence. I see no need to accept the word of a liar AG from a lying administration who offers a self-serving justification that is half unverifiable and half lie.

Why this argument, picked by NCFisher, doesn’t matter: The need to expand the perimeter, even if true, is too remote to justify what happened. Ok it’s less humiliating than clearing Trump’s path but it’s still not a justification for what happened. It’s just an excuse to pander to people who already think those protestors deserved what they got based on their beliefs, but aren’t willing to say that out loud.
 
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#7,560
#7,560
RockyTop85 said:
Oh so you want me to repeat myself to catch you up on a conversation that you jumped in the middle of?

I’ll mark these clearly so you don’t get confused, again.

Response to your post: To say that the gathering in Lafayette Park was a “violent protest” is a lie.

Argument Supporting of Response: A violent protest isn’t something you have to watch three or four times to catch. You know it when you see it. I did eventually find the footage of the one styrofoam cup that got tossed. Probably a half-dozen people turned and shouted not to throw things, which you could then hear echoed by dozens of others behind them. For the other 28 minutes of the video preceding the “assault” by police, nothing was thrown and no new debris ends up on the ground when the camera would pan away. There was no contact between police and protestors other than one officer carefully pushing a woman away to give himself a bit of space in front of the barricade. She complied. It appeared mutually respectful. Most of the protestors were on their knees with their hands raised after the police approached the barricade. Furthermore, there are numerous eyewitness accounts available for anyone willing to google and read them. These too say it was nonviolent.

Conclusion of Response: The video speaks for itself. It makes clear that this wasn’t a riot or a violent protest sufficient to warrant the government applying that level of force against the entire crowd. The crowd was overwhelmingly peaceful, policed itself with regard to one incident, and was clearly not a threat to the police or endorsing dangerous behavior.

My Main Idea: The context of Barr’s statement isn’t simply that the protest was violent, but that this was part of the justification for the timing of “expanding the perimeter.“ Even if reasonable minds could differ about the nature of the protest, to say that this was part of the justification is clearly a lie.

Argument Supporting Main Idea: The police launched tear gas and smoke at the crowd at approx. 28:30 in the video, but they had been redeploying in anticipation of moving on the crowd for almost the entire video. You can see more officers arriving and see them all redeploying. By the time anything was thrown, they’re already moving into position and advancing on the barricade. Other officers formed up on H Street about 5 minutes before they launch the gas. This is consistent with eyewitness accounts and yoi can see people pointing and looking and talking about it. This clearly signals theit intent to move the crowd and it happens well before the police in front of the camera walk up to the barricade (which is when the lone styrofoam cup is thrown.) So they had already decided to move the protestors before anything happened.

But wait there’s more: still argument supporting main idea Trump walked into the rose garden for a press conference while the protest was still ongoing. He delivered a 10ish minute speech and ends by announcing his intent to walk to St. John’s Episcopal. If the decision to gas the protestors prior to curfew was a spontaneous reaction to their violence, Trump would not have known the path would be clear for him to go to the Church. He had to know before the speech started that they would be gone when his speech was concluded. Presidential schedules being what they are, he knew when they would start removing the protestors. It was preplanned.

Conclusion of Main Idea: The timing of the redeployment, and Trump’s own words prove that this was premeditated and not a reaction to nonexistent violence, which was half of Barr’s justification.

Dispensing with the other half of Barr’s excuse: Premeditation is partially consistent with but not conclusive of “expanding the perimeter.” However, the timing is inconsistent with the reasoning. The perimeter expansion was supposed to be a safety measure. Timing it during an ongoing, lawful protest and using force to expel the protestors was clearly not safe for either the protestors or the officers. This is why Barr had to lie about the violence. I see no need to accept the word of a liar AG from a lying administration who offers a self-serving justification that is half unverifiable and half lie.

Why this argument, picked by NCFisher, doesn’t matter: The need to expand the perimeter, even if true, is too remote to justify what happened. Ok it’s less humiliating than clearing Trump’s path but it’s still not a justification for what happened. It’s just an excuse to pander to people who already think those protestors deserved what they got based on their beliefs, but aren’t willing to say that out loud.
Click to expand...
I was watching it live on a periscope and saw several water bottles thrown and other things that I couldn't identify. It wasnt just a styrofoam cup. FOH.
 
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#7,561
#7,561
marcusluvsvols said:
Look man, you do not seem to be a racist like point guard or Ktown, both of which need only to speak their views to show what they are about, but you do seem intent on stoking the flames of division and making the protests about racism rather than police brutality. That means you and I are not going to agree. Pretty sure I have read every post in this thread, as well as most of the links.

I am a hardworking white guy with 2 black sisters that were raised by my parents, in our home, and I have loved and supported them for my entire life. We have absolutely nothing to prove to you or those 2 racists anymore than we have to white supremacists. We were raised to fear only God, and not entertain foolishness. These clowns from BLM rioting, looting, beating, and killing because they are morally bankrupt are no better than members of the Klan. All are a bunch of opportunistic fools trying to divide people so they can be controlled. I am not what you are about, and want no part of it....and neither do any of my 3 sisters. None of us will be protesting a black man killed by a garbage cop while 88% of blacks are killed by black men.

I raise my kids to be God fearing Christians and they share my conservative values. We keep to ourselves and mind our own. I will tell you just like I told a few rednecks right here in this forum in a thread about some fictional "race war" because BLM rioters will get the exact same treatment from us as white supremacists trying to harm my sisters.... we have 11 acres mostly on top of a ridge in Sevier County. Should ANY of you FOOLS be you white , black, green, or purple, seek to harm us or destroy our way of life...that is where we will be. There is 1 way in, and 1 way out. A long, steep, well maintained gravel driveway up to the well stocked homestead we have there. Anyone attempting to enter this property from the road below doesnt stand a chance unless they own a well armored tank. We will shoot "on sight " . This applies to everyone equally, death is not a respecter of persons.

The ignorant ideas such as defunding the police are not welcome around me and mine. Neither are socialism, liberalism, or any other foolish notions that run counter to the Bible or the Constitution. These are our beliefs. You are certainly welcome to believe whatever you choose to believe. If those core beliefs do not align with mine...we probably do not have much to talk about besides UT football. I dont come to VN to form my opinions or defend my beliefs. We are solidly comfortable in our skins, which tone varies greatly indeed. Those who are seeking to divide this Republic and stoke this irrational anger and hate do not have a voice in our lives. Just like the MSM, the ignorance that comes from their mouths falls on deaf ears of disinterest. Best wishes to you and yours.

Go Vols.
Click to expand...

Yes, I am “stoking division and anger” compared to the wonderfully unifying sentiment that those who disagree are clowns on par with Klan members who wish to destroy your way of life and start a race war.

It’s nothing personal, but it seems the “brotherly love” extends to those with Republican values only
 
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#7,562
#7,562
Tyler Durden said:
Cop shows are propaganda that trick people into believing cops are problem solvers, when in fact they only create or escalate problems.
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LOL.

Yes. Its cops are to blame for all the crime. Totally makes sense. I am sure that these progressive cities who are de-funding their police are going to see a HUGE drop in crime...

HAHAHA
 
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#7,563
#7,563
NashVol11 said:
Yes, I am “stoking division and anger” compared to the wonderfully unifying sentiment that those who disagree are clowns on par with Klan members who wish to destroy your way of life and start a race war.

It’s nothing personal, but it seems the “brotherly love” extends to those with Republican values only
Click to expand...
Brotherly love isn't fostered in the partisan threads unfortunately. But if you post in the OT which is non political, there's no doubt you will feel the camaraderie.
 
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#7,565
#7,565
Hayezb said:
Completely agree. Just curious where your stance was. There are a lot of people that disagree unfortunately.
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Very true. The far left has often told me that minorities don't hold power therefore they cannot be racist. This was told to me even during the 8 yrs Obama was President.
 
#7,566
#7,566
BP4Prez said:
There are over 350 million people in this country. There were 50 or so deaths last year to “unarmed” at the hands of the police. 19 white. 9 black. I’m sure there were a handful to other races.

Hardly “so many”.
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Again where did I mention race or racism?

This cop basically told Daniel Shaver I’m killing you and he walked away free. In case you wanted to know Shaver was white.

 
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#7,569
#7,569
MOOOOONEY said:
Again where did I mention race or racism?

This cop basically told Daniel Shaver I’m killing you and he walked away free. In case you wanted to know Shaver was white.

Click to expand...

Unreal. That cop murdered him for losing a game of Simon says. What a hero, the kid crying his eyes out right before he shot him was clearly a huge threat. I'm sure the boys in blue gave him a medal too. Shoot, he'll probably be police commissioner soon.
 
#7,572
#7,572
NashVol11 said:
Yes, I am “stoking division and anger” compared to the wonderfully unifying sentiment that those who disagree are clowns on par with Klan members who wish to destroy your way of life and start a race war.

It’s nothing personal, but it seems the “brotherly love” extends to those with Republican values only
Click to expand...
It’s one thing to protest..... it’s another when riots break out, businesses get looted and burned, etc.
 
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