Systemic Racism

#276
#276
k-town_king said:
43% of troops are black. Leadership should reflect that or at least be in the 30% range. The discrepancy between the leadership and rank and file point to a institutional race problem.

It was also armed forces policy to be racist and a lot of the same mindsets still apply.

"The reasons there are so few people of color at the top lie deep in the history and culture of the United States military. A 1925 guidance for Army officers stated that black service members were a class “from which we cannot expect to draw leadership material.”
"Interviews with more than three dozen white, black and Hispanic service members and officers depict an entrenched and clubby system with near cement ceilings for minority groups."

"In December, West Point announced that its Black Knights football team had removed from its flag the initials G.F.B.D., for “God Forgives, Brothers Don’t,” after learning that it was a slogan demanding loyalty by the Aryan Brotherhood of Texas, a white supremacist prison gang.

The small sniper community in the Marine Corps has often used a Nazi symbol, the lightning bolt insignia of Hitler’s SS units, as a stand-in for “Scout Sniper.” Although the Marine Corps leadership moved quickly to stamp out the symbol after a photo of a unit posing with an SS flag surfaced in Afghanistan in 2012, it still persists, Marines say, much like a secret handshake.

All my ex military friends told me this a long time ago. Everyone knows about the racism in the military.
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Alright cool let’s set some diversity quotas and put people in high ranking positions based on color and not merit. Let’s do it across all walks of life. I need to see some white cornerbacks in the NFL and every NBA teams needs at least 2 white guys on the floor for them at all times. You bi*** about a lot of irrelevant supposedly racist s*** that has absolutely no bearing on your life or any other black person. The only thing I can gather is you’re offended way more by some sort of symbolic racism as opposed to people actually being oppressed.
 
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#277
#277
k-town_king said:
Exactly there is a race and sex discrimination problem in the military. Those two groups still aren't white men who occupy the top leadership positions. Even though women do not fill the same roles as men.

Either way more people of color would be leadership if there was no race issue.
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No there is not. There are combat arms and there are support personnel, the vast majority of combat arms (infantry, armor,ext) is white and male. From these positions is where high command usually comes from. If an officer wants to make flag rank and up to full General they need to get into combat arms, not logistics/personnel. Like in business you don't take a warehouse worker and put them as head of sales, gotta have the azz in the grass time.
 
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#278
#278
C-south said:
C’mon dude. You’re really reaching. I’ve served in the military and can’t remember a single racist incident. I had worked at the same place 24 years and I promise we never hired someone just because they were white. It always helps to have a connection somewhere you’re trying to get a job at but your skin color is irrelevant.
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Lol at your anecdotal evidence of the non existence of systemic workforce racism.

Nice phrasing on the bolded, company's may not hire people because they're white but they damn sure don't hire people because they're not.
 
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#279
#279
Equality of outcome is a really dangerous thing to try to engineer. Equality of opportunity is an imperfect system but it is the best and least dangerous option. An example of this being how colleges actively discriminate against Indians and Asians while lowering the standard of admissions for blacks and hispanics. That will have negative ramifications for decades.
 
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#280
#280
hog88 said:
No there is not. There are combat arms and there are support personnel, the vast majority of combat arms (infantry, armor,ext) is white and male. From these positions is where high command usually comes from. If an officer wants to make flag rank and up to full General they need to get into combat arms, not logistics/personnel. Like in business you don't take a warehouse worker and put them as head of sales, gotta have the azz in the grass time.
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You literally are arguing there isn't a racism problem because all the leadership comes from a group that is overwhelmingly white and male lol.
 
#281
#281
Septic said:
Lol at your anecdotal evidence of the non existence of systemic workforce racism.

Nice phrasing on the bolded, company's may not hire people because they're white but they damn sure don't hire people because they're not.
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Show me a company that doesn’t hire black people. Show me one that doesn’t go out of their way to hire black people.
 
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#283
#283
NashVol11 said:
Implicit racial bias and the anatomy of institutional racism | Centre for Crime and Justice Studies

Also these:
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I would say your article says more about a true bias than racism itself. It also doesnt address any of the reasons for these possible biases. And just assumes anyone with a racial bias is racist.

It also does one sided studies that I love so much. People of the UK are generally anti Muslim. Ok. No problem buying that. But it doesnt look at how Muslims in the UK look at the rest of the UK. Is there a similar feeling? Chicken or egg here on who is wrong, probably both, but ignoring one side of the data is a terrible way to influence the system instead of doing actual fact finding. If you look for one sided racism all you will find is one sided racism.

Not saying institutional racism doesnt exist. I just find this a poor argument for it.
 
#284
#284
Rickyvol77 said:
again, EVERYTHING with you is about race. What if the managers said "this guy has no experience, or doesn't have the right personality for the job".

It doesn't always have to do with race, not every one is a white bogeyman hellbent on keeping black people down.
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K Town calls out racism while being a racist. He plays the victim card.
 
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#288
#288
LouderVol said:
This is saying that racism is based on outcome instead of opprotunity.

Apparently Ryan is privileged because his grandad saved money on education by serving in the military. Uuuh, Jamal's family COULDNT do that?

Apparently its instutiotnal racism because Ryan has a family friend in engineering. Seriously?

You could strip the races away and it would not be any different for those kids. Like seriously make it trailer park Ricky Bobby (white) instead of Jamal and that same exact scenario plays out the exact same.

This is literally an apples and orange case of different situations leading to different results. And apparently that makes it racist?

At least they go in there an list specific case studies of specific racism (names on job applications) but it never ties it together to show how its institutional racism. It's funny they mention how poor people have it worse but assume that it's only poor black people held back by the circumstance of being poor.
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Exactly, people like K-town want to make it all about race every time when it's not.

just because you weren't hired by a hiring manager because he doesnt think you were a good fit, doesn't mean it is racist
just because the police pulled you over for speeding, doesn't mean it is racist
just because a bank denies your loan because you have bad credit, doesn't mean it is racist
just because your white friend's family has money because they saved it, and you and your single mom are struggling, doesn't mean it is racist
 
#289
#289
Septic said:
Lol at your anecdotal evidence of the non existence of systemic workforce racism.

Nice phrasing on the bolded, company's may not hire people because they're white but they damn sure don't hire people because they're not.
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what companies do this?
 
#290
#290
Rickyvol77 said:
Exactly, people like K-town want to make it all about race every time when it's not.

just because you weren't hired by a hiring manager because he doesnt think you were a good fit, doesn't mean it is racist
just because the police pulled you over for speeding, doesn't mean it is racist
just because a bank denies your loan because you have bad credit, doesn't mean it is racist
just because your white friend's family has money because they saved it, and you and your single mom are struggling, doesn't mean it is racist
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I guess I grew up around too many poor people to understand the distinction they are trying to make. But based on my first hand experience every problem they described wasnt race based but money based.

It reads as simple conformation bias.
 
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#291
#291
LouderVol said:
I guess I grew up around too many poor people to understand the distinction they are trying to make. But based on my first hand experience every problem they described wasnt race based but money based.

It reads as simple conformation bias.
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The ones that make this about race want us divided. I dont believe all in the black community actually feel that white people are racist. I believe its an idea fed to them to keep the classes separated.
 
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#292
#292
It’s impossible to have open dialogue about it because everything a white person says will be deemed “insensitive” or “racist”. People get admonished for saying nothing then when they do they get attacked. Drew Brees had to apologize for saying absolutely nothing wrong as did the Broncos head coach and FSU’s head coach. It’s apparent some people want to be outraged no matter what.
 
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#293
#293
LouderVol said:
I would say your article says more about a true bias than racism itself. It also doesnt address any of the reasons for these possible biases. And just assumes anyone with a racial bias is racist.

It also does one sided studies that I love so much. People of the UK are generally anti Muslim. Ok. No problem buying that. But it doesnt look at how Muslims in the UK look at the rest of the UK. Is there a similar feeling? Chicken or egg here on who is wrong, probably both, but ignoring one side of the data is a terrible way to influence the system instead of doing actual fact finding. If you look for one sided racism all you will find is one sided racism.

Not saying institutional racism doesnt exist. I just find this a poor argument for it.
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Not to mention that being anti Muslim is a completely different thing than being anti black. The English population is almost completely different in values and religious beliefs than the incoming Muslim population. I really wouldn't define that sort of thing as racism. Prejudiced, sure. But all forms of prejudice don't amount to racism
 
#297
#297
hog88 said:
No there is not. There are combat arms and there are support personnel, the vast majority of combat arms (infantry, armor,ext) is white and male. From these positions is where high command usually comes from. If an officer wants to make flag rank and up to full General they need to get into combat arms, not logistics/personnel. Like in business you don't take a warehouse worker and put them as head of sales, gotta have the azz in the grass time.
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Good thing this was addressed too.

"The African-Americans who do become officers are often steered to specialize in logistics and transportation rather than the marquee combat arms specialties that lead to the top jobs.
Interviews with more than three dozen white, black and Hispanic service members and officers depict an entrenched and clubby system with near cement ceilings for minority groups."

So yes even the railroading into positions without room for advancement are part of the racism.
 
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