Systemic Racism

#151
#151
GoBigOrangeUT said:
Bad decisions? Someone should be punished for the rest of their life for one mistake? Two mistakes? Mistakes made to help provide?
Click to expand...
This is the crux of the issue. Some believe people shouldn’t be held accountable for their own choices. If I choose to rape or kill someone I’m pretty sure that my choices have effects on the rest of my life
 
  • Like
Reactions: TrumpedUpVol and FLVOL_79
#152
#152
GAVol said:
Don’t lay that entirely at the feet of conservatives. Liberals also wrecked the black family with entitlement programs that disincentivized marriage and created dependence.
Click to expand...
"Entitlement programs" were only needed to help overcome the stealing of black wealth and the active hindrance against black success that the impoverished communities faced. See Black Wall Street and also acknowledge the fact most lynchings were of middle class or wealthy blacks who would then have their property stolen and redistributed to the locals.


The marriage clauses that encourage staying single were conservative policies. Also the clauses in the "entitlement programs" that many white families took advantage of in the 40-60s to build family wealth and acquire property that excluded black people were all from conservatives.

Democrats and liberals are not always the same. There have been plenty of moderate Democrats that hurt the black community.

These issues still hurt the black community.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lerxtwood
#154
#154
Rickyvol77 said:
This is the crux of the issue. Some believe people shouldn’t be held accountable for their own choices. If I choose to rape or kill someone I’m pretty sure that my choices have effects on the rest of my life
Click to expand...
The issue isn’t rape or murder. It’s almost always drugs. The War on Drugs has done more harm than good.
 
#155
#155
allvol123 said:
And what kind of policies are about to be generated from the current mess? I think you know.
Click to expand...
Well, that was the game plan all along. Incite a civil unrest and create enough panic and chaos (COVID) that people will be clamoring for govt to come in and crack down even harder. Pretty soon, your dystopian police state will be here before you know it.
 
#156
#156
On the off chance your question was serious...

A lot of what we're experiencing in this country comes down to sowing and reaping. We're reaping now what was long sown into the fabric of this country.

A great example of systemic racism is looking back to the mid 20th century and how African Americans were deliberately excluded from the home wealth boom. I can't imagine anyone even arguing against this part. Here is a great video showing what happened...

Segregated By Design

Black Americans were segregated into certain sections of cities by design. Even middle class AA's who could certainly have afforded to move into the sprawling suburbs were denied loans, or the only loans they could get were so bad that at the time it made more sense to move into the black neighborhoods the government was corraling them into. Then redlining took place, where neighborhoods were rated based on perceived ability to pay back loans. The predominantly black districts were rated the lowest, making it extremely difficult for an AA to get a loan. So they were stuck where they were placed with no ability to get out until decades later, meaning an entire generation missed out on the wealth boom, you know that period of time our parents or grandparents call "the good ol' days". Those neighborhoods often turned into slums because of the growing wealth gap combined with the fact that services such as garbage collection ran much slower in those areas so it just looked worse.

Another example is the freeway system in some cities that destroyed what once were "good" black neighborhoods. In Richmond where I live, the construction of I-195 that cuts through an area of downtown demolished certain neighborhoods that at the time were decent AA neighborhoods. Now those are areas of town known as "lock your doors" territories.

I think your argument is going to be, "yeah, but that was like like 50 years ago. All they have to do is leave and go to better neighborhoods now." When centuries of blatant racist government policies have beaten down a group of people, it makes it extremely hard to get out of that cycle. Some have, but most haven't. We see the same pattern in the most impoverished white areas. I have participated in missions to a certain town in West Virginia that is as poor as any 3rd world country out there. The people there have no means to leave to go somewhere better. Psychologically, they believe there's nothing out there for them so they stay there living in conditions unimaginable. Now, it's not because of racism that they're in that position, but that's just kind of what happens generationally. Patterns and habits are handed from parent to child along with the wealth (or lack thereof) and on and on we go.

Why haven't Asian Americans faced the same dilemma? Well, it wasn't for a lack of trying by White America last century. But then, for some reason we became a little less racist towards Asians than we were African Americans. Studies have been done showing that at one time, Asians were being paid the same or less than Blacks doing the same job. But then we started paying them more for the same job. Then we started paying them the same as white people. I think that was the main factor. Yes, education and family structure was a priority for Asians, and that helped. But the wealth gap didn't destroy them like it did African Americans.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PhoenixAZVol, Lerxtwood, Septic and 3 others
#158
#158
wtmvol said:
On the off chance your question was serious...

A lot of what we're experiencing in this country comes down to sowing and reaping. We're reaping now what was long sown into the fabric of this country.

A great example of systemic racism is looking back to the mid 20th century and how African Americans were deliberately excluded from the home wealth boom. I can't imagine anyone even arguing against this part. Here is a great video showing what happened...

Segregated By Design

Black Americans were segregated into certain sections of cities by design. Even middle class AA's who could certainly have afforded to move into the sprawling suburbs were denied loans, or the only loans they could get were so bad that at the time it made more sense to move into the black neighborhoods the government was corraling them into. Then redlining took place, where neighborhoods were rated based on perceived ability to pay back loans. The predominantly black districts were rated the lowest, making it extremely difficult for an AA to get a loan. So they were stuck where they were placed with no ability to get out until decades later, meaning an entire generation missed out on the wealth boom, you know that period of time our parents or grandparents call "the good ol' days". Those neighborhoods often turned into slums because of the growing wealth gap combined with the fact that services such as garbage collection ran much slower in those areas so it just looked worse.

Another example is the freeway system in some cities that destroyed what once were "good" black neighborhoods. In Richmond where I live, the construction of I-195 that cuts through an area of downtown demolished certain neighborhoods that at the time were decent AA neighborhoods. Now those are areas of town known as "lock your doors" territories.

I think your argument is going to be, "yeah, but that was like like 50 years ago. All they have to do is leave and go to better neighborhoods now." When centuries of blatant racist government policies have beaten down a group of people, it makes it extremely hard to get out of that cycle. Some have, but most haven't. We see the same pattern in the most impoverished white areas. I have participated in missions to a certain town in West Virginia that is as poor as any 3rd world country out there. The people there have no means to leave to go somewhere better. Psychologically, they believe there's nothing out there for them so they stay there living in conditions unimaginable. Now, it's not because of racism that they're in that position, but that's just kind of what happens generationally. Patterns and habits are handed from parent to child along with the wealth (or lack thereof) and on and on we go.

Why haven't Asian Americans faced the same dilemma? Well, it wasn't for a lack of trying by White America last century. But then, for some reason we became a little less racist towards Asians than we were African Americans. Studies have been done showing that at one time, Asians were being paid the same or less than Blacks doing the same job. But then we started paying them more for the same job. Then we started paying them the same as white people. I think that was the main factor. Yes, education and family structure was a priority for Asians, and that helped. But the wealth gap didn't destroy them like it did African Americans.
Click to expand...
Well said.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tennvols77
#159
#159
Rasputin_Vol said:
Abortion, removing religion from schools, removing the father from homes and incentivizing single motherhood are liberal policies.

Conservative policies mainly focused on heavy handed law enforcement, mandatory sentencing and the so-called war on drugs.
Click to expand...
The war on drugs has taken more black fathers out of the home than any other thing.

Abortion is a non factor.

Religion in schools is a non factor. Black people are the most religious group in the U.S. Always has been. Doesn't help against racism or racist policies.

The marriage stipulations in welfare programs are conservative inventions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NashVol11
#161
#161
GoBigOrangeUT said:
Capitalism has its merits, but it’s also one of the main causes of the issues at hand. It’s a system set up to help the wealthiest and hurt the poorest.
Click to expand...
That isn't really true.

Any system that rewards success and punishes failure results in a Pareto distribution. That doesn't mean it is a rigged game.

The poorest acrue wealth faster in capitalism than any other form of exchange.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TN-POSSUM, allvol123, Rickyvol77 and 2 others
#163
#163
GoBigOrangeUT said:
The issue isn’t rape or murder. It’s almost always drugs. The War on Drugs has done more harm than good.
Click to expand...
Murder and other violent crimes are absolutely a big one. You can make a strong case a lot of those are just second order consequences of drug crimes, though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: allvol123
#165
#165
k-town_king said:
The war on drugs has taken more black fathers out of the home than any other thing.

Abortion is a non factor.

Religion in schools is a non factor. Black people are the most religious group in the U.S. Always has been. Doesn't help against racism or racist policies.

The marriage stipulations in welfare programs are conservative inventions.
Click to expand...

Excuses are always best to solve actual problems.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TN-POSSUM, allvol123, Rickyvol77 and 1 other person
#166
#166
wtmvol said:
On the off chance your question was serious...

A lot of what we're experiencing in this country comes down to sowing and reaping. We're reaping now what was long sown into the fabric of this country.

A great example of systemic racism is looking back to the mid 20th century and how African Americans were deliberately excluded from the home wealth boom. I can't imagine anyone even arguing against this part. Here is a great video showing what happened...

Segregated By Design

Black Americans were segregated into certain sections of cities by design. Even middle class AA's who could certainly have afforded to move into the sprawling suburbs were denied loans, or the only loans they could get were so bad that at the time it made more sense to move into the black neighborhoods the government was corraling them into. Then redlining took place, where neighborhoods were rated based on perceived ability to pay back loans. The predominantly black districts were rated the lowest, making it extremely difficult for an AA to get a loan. So they were stuck where they were placed with no ability to get out until decades later, meaning an entire generation missed out on the wealth boom, you know that period of time our parents or grandparents call "the good ol' days". Those neighborhoods often turned into slums because of the growing wealth gap combined with the fact that services such as garbage collection ran much slower in those areas so it just looked worse.

Another example is the freeway system in some cities that destroyed what once were "good" black neighborhoods. In Richmond where I live, the construction of I-195 that cuts through an area of downtown demolished certain neighborhoods that at the time were decent AA neighborhoods. Now those are areas of town known as "lock your doors" territories.

I think your argument is going to be, "yeah, but that was like like 50 years ago. All they have to do is leave and go to better neighborhoods now." When centuries of blatant racist government policies have beaten down a group of people, it makes it extremely hard to get out of that cycle. Some have, but most haven't. We see the same pattern in the most impoverished white areas. I have participated in missions to a certain town in West Virginia that is as poor as any 3rd world country out there. The people there have no means to leave to go somewhere better. Psychologically, they believe there's nothing out there for them so they stay there living in conditions unimaginable. Now, it's not because of racism that they're in that position, but that's just kind of what happens generationally. Patterns and habits are handed from parent to child along with the wealth (or lack thereof) and on and on we go.

Why haven't Asian Americans faced the same dilemma? Well, it wasn't for a lack of trying by White America last century. But then, for some reason we became a little less racist towards Asians than we were African Americans. Studies have been done showing that at one time, Asians were being paid the same or less than Blacks doing the same job. But then we started paying them more for the same job. Then we started paying them the same as white people. I think that was the main factor. Yes, education and family structure was a priority for Asians, and that helped. But the wealth gap didn't destroy them like it did African Americans.
Click to expand...
NOW THIS IS A GREAT RESPONSE. thank you, i can see this point
 
#169
#169
It's not good to have a victim mindset. There is opportunity for just about everybody in America and it can hold you back. But the bottom line is, some people, across all walks of life are going to play the victim. When a group is victimized, rather than an individual, it exacerbates those feelings. People will look for reasons to feel victimized. Victims tend to think they are justified in their victimhood and others are not. The perfect illustration of this is the white people who dismiss black protesters as victims, all the while crying about PC culture and reverse racism. They do not see the irony at all. But it's inherent in our nature to play the victim and some people never grow out of that.

If the goal is to de-victimize everybody, dismissing people and telling them to stop being victims is not effective. We've been doing this to blacks for years. As soon as equal protection under the law was passed, people acted like blacks had no more complaints. Blacks told us the war on drugs was destroying their communities. White America laughed and jeered at their lack of accountability. 40 years later it's so clear to any reasonable person that they were right. That the war on drugs has been one of the worst policies in US history and that it disproportionately hits blacks and minorities. Everybody knows it's ****ed up and it's still in full swing. Imagine how insanely mad you would be if you were a minority and a government program existed that everybody knew was wasteful, futile, and was destroying urban communities and Latin America and nobody ever cared enough to fix anything. If you were in their shoes, do you think you would feel like a victim, guy who feels victimized by an Afro-Studies professor's radical opinions?

Whether or not the war on drugs was intentional systemic racism, or it just shook out that way, it does not matter. It creates racially inequitable results. To me, it's not so important why they are oppressed, it only matters that they are oppressed and that people who claim to value responsible government don't give a **** about fixing it.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: SamRebel35 and NashVol11
#170
#170
k-town_king said:
"Entitlement programs" were only needed to help overcome the stealing of black wealth and the active hindrance against black success that the impoverished communities faced. See Black Wall Street and also acknowledge the fact most lynchings were of middle class or wealthy blacks who would then have their property stolen and redistributed to the locals.


The marriage clauses that encourage staying single were conservative policies. Also the clauses in the "entitlement programs" that many white families took advantage of in the 40-60s to build family wealth and acquire property that excluded black people were all from conservatives.

Democrats and liberals are not always the same. There have been plenty of moderate Democrats that hurt the black community.

These issues still hurt the black community.
Click to expand...
Ktown, not being argumentive, I'd truly like your take on this.

Rough estimates put the cost of programs aimed to better the lives of AAs in the neighborhood of 4 trillion, going back 60ish years.

Do you feel like this is enough? Too much? allocated improperly?
Would building state of the art schools, drug outreach programs and free birth control be better uses of funds?

I had a close friend growing up that was somewhat ostracized by other minorities because he grew up in a two parent home, lived in a single family residence that they owned and dressed well.

What needs to happen to change this perception in the AA community?
 
#171
#171
k-town_king said:
The war on drugs has taken more black fathers out of the home than any other thing.

Abortion is a non factor.

Religion in schools is a non factor. Black people are the most religious group in the U.S. Always has been. Doesn't help against racism or racist policies.

The marriage stipulations in welfare programs are conservative inventions.
Click to expand...
75% of fatherless homes in the black communities are NOT because of just drugs. The first thing that community can do to succeed is have strong father role models.

Abortion is a factor only in terms of sewing seeds from the above statement

Black people are not the most religious group in the US

Generations being in welfare is a choice
 
  • Like
Reactions: allvol123 and volfanjustin
#173
#173
JCP201 said:
SIAP

Click to expand...

ok and you are talking about poverty not race. It is not a "race issue" that a child has a loving mother and father and in a better situation than one that does not.

I mean "did you have a computer or cell phone?" Again this has absolutely nothing to do with race
 
#174
#174
n_huffhines said:
It's not good to have a victim mindset. There is opportunity for just about everybody in America. But the bottom line is, some people, across all walks of life are going to play the victim. When a group is victimized, rather than an individual, it exacerbates those feelings. The perfect illustration of this is the white people who dismiss black protesters as victims, all the while crying about PC culture and reverse racism. They do not see the irony at all. But it's inherent in our nature.

If the goal is to de-victimize everybody, dismissing people and telling them to stop being victims is not effective. We've been doing this to blacks for years. As soon as equal protection under the law was passed, people acted like blacks had no more complaints. Blacks told us the war on drugs was destroying their communities. White America laughed and jeered at their lack of accountability. 40 years later it's so clear to any reasonable person that they were right. That the war on drugs has been one of the worst policies in US history and that it disproportionately hits blacks and minorities. Everybody knows it's ****ed up and it's still in full swing. Imagine how insanely mad you would be if you were a minority and a government program existed that everybody knew was wasteful, futile, and was destroying urban communities and Latin America and nobody ever cared enough to fix anything. If you were in their shoes, do you think you would feel like a victim, guy who feels victimized by an Afro-Studies professor's radical opinions?
Click to expand...


Nobody cares about people protesting any cause they want. A couple things though. Going out of your way to irritate people makes them care less. Using it as an excuse to loot, riot, vandalize, and assault innocent people will make people not care at all. The war on drugs was and is absolutely necessary. If it disproportionately affects certain people so be it. It seems a lot laws disproportionately affect some people and I’m ok with that.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement





Back
Top