Orangeslice13, a blessing to those around him…..Again

#7,476
#7,476
Behr said:
What issues? And how did you confirm they were issues and incorrect?

My Concordance is Strong's. I don't use it either but my issue with it was it seemed to be overkill and I just didn't like it. I have an Ungers and Strong's Bible dictionary I use instead.
Click to expand...

Strong’s is good
 
#7,480
#7,480
Orangeslice13 said:
Oh, and @Behr
Talk about whatever you want in here.

You’re my boi Blue!
Click to expand...

Remember us briefly discussing Hebrews 6 in particular 4-6? I wasn't completely "sold" on my interpretation, I think I even said that later. Its been on my mind ever since and when I got my new commentary's, that was the second thing I dove into. Genesis 1 was the first.

That's part of the reason I asked what you used to study and research. I like having books. Using my phone or computer is more convenient at times, but I just like having books.

I have a complete 6 volume set by Warren W. Wiersbe, a complete 6 volume set by Matthew Henry and a NT one volume by Adam Clark, Matthew Henry and John Wesley.

I tell you all of this because I want you and whoever else reading my posts/opinions/ on my beliefs, to have an idea where I get my information from. I've always been a KJV only reader, but I use a NASB now also. 1 reason is so I know what you are reading.

There is a difference in the KJV and NASB on Hebrews 6:4-6. At first I thought it changed the meaning totally, but I don't think it does.

If you're interested I'll share what I've got. Its not a whole lot but its in books so I'll have to type it Lol.

I will say this, Job has always been my favorite book in the Bible, but Hebrews is now challenging for that spot.

Obviously I'm not trying to change your mind, but I do think you'll enjoy it, whether you believe any of it or not.
 
#7,481
#7,481
Behr said:
Remember us briefly discussing Hebrews 6 in particular 4-6? I wasn't completely "sold" on my interpretation, I think I even said that later. Its been on my mind ever since and when I got my new commentary's, that was the second thing I dove into. Genesis 1 was the first.

That's part of the reason I asked what you used to study and research. I like having books. Using my phone or computer is more convenient at times, but I just like having books.

I have a complete 6 volume set by Warren W. Wiersbe, a complete 6 volume set by Matthew Henry and a NT one volume by Adam Clark, Matthew Henry and John Wesley.

I tell you all of this because I want you and whoever else reading my posts/opinions/ on my beliefs, to have an idea where I get my information from. I've always been a KJV only reader, but I use a NASB now also. 1 reason is so I know what you are reading.

There is a difference in the KJV and NASB on Hebrews 6:4-6. At first I thought it changed the meaning totally, but I don't think it does.

If you're interested I'll share what I've got. Its not a whole lot but its in books so I'll have to type it Lol.

I will say this, Job has always been my favorite book in the Bible, but Hebrews is now challenging for that spot.

Obviously I'm not trying to change your mind, but I do think you'll enjoy it, whether you believe any of it or not.
Click to expand...
My wife loves books too and her fav is Job.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Behr
#7,482
#7,482
Yea, my home library makes me look smart...

7f04839a25d450c05467a8e72755a2b0.jpg
 
#7,486
#7,486
Orangeslice13 said:
Awesome.
I like it a bunch.

Hebrews, I’ve been threatening to do it for a while now. I’m very busy at work which will make my answers slow but let’s do it.
Click to expand...
Cool. I'm done for the night but I get up early and will post a few things and you can check them out whenever you get a chance.

Although I told you I disagreed with you on Hebrews being "crap", Ive never been to interested in it myself. Ive really enjoyed understanding it better these past few days.
 
#7,487
#7,487
I'll start by saying I've always felt Paul was responsible for writing Hebrews, but that was mostly because what I'd heard others that I respected say. In the introduction to Hebrews, Matthew Henry mentioned other possibilities like Clemens of Rome, Luke, Barnabas etc and explained why they were possibilities, but had this to say about Paul....

'Some think that the apostle Peter refers to this epistle, and proves Paul to be the penman of it, by telling the Hebrews, to whom he wrote, of Paul's having written to them, 2 Pet. 3:15. We read of no other epistle that he ever wrote to them but this. And though it has been objected that, since Paul put his name to all his other epistles, he would not have omitted it here; yet others have well answered that he, being the apostle of the Gentiles, who were odious to the Jews, might think fit to conceal his name, lest their prejudices against him might hinder them from reading and weighing it as they ought to do."

The intro ends with....

"It must be acknowledged that there are many things in this epistle hard to be understood, but the sweetness we shall find therein will make us abundant amends for all the pains we take to understand it. And indeed, if we compare all the epistles of the New Testament, we shall not find any of them more replenished with divine, heavenly matter than this to the Hebrews."

I'm fully aware that you probably know all of that and I'm not telling you anything new. I have an idea where youre coming from, But again, its important to me that you know where I'm coming from.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Orangeslice13 and vol445
#7,488
#7,488
From the NASB..Hebrews 6:1-3 and 4-6

1.Therefore leaving the [a]elementary teaching about the [b]Christ, let us press on to [c]maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 ofinstruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do, if God permits.

Hebrews 6:1-3 is pretty clear, You have laid the foundation, you know your ABC's now move forward and let God carry you along to maturity.

4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,6 and then have fallen away, it isimpossible to renew them again to repentance, [d]since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

"For In the case of those" seems like the writer is describing a hypothetical case to prove his point that a true believer cannot lose his salvation. 6:9 seems to support that. ...."9. But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that[h]accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way."

Look at 4 compared to 1-3, the writer changed the pronouns from "we" and "us" to "those".
 
  • Like
Reactions: Orangeslice13
#7,489
#7,489
Please remember, I don't think I'm "teaching" anyone anything, except for what I've learned.

Interestingly, when I started this I used my KJV Bible. I was so excited about what I'd learned that I wanted to discuss it with you, but thought I'd better look at the NASB first.

I can only say for certain this is true about Hebrews 6:1-9. It is written different enough between the two that it seems to have different meanings. But although they take a different path, they ended up at the same place. It was awesome.

And obviously this is completely my opinion and my personal experience.
 
#7,490
#7,490
Behr said:
I'll start by saying I've always felt Paul was responsible for writing Hebrews, but that was mostly because what I'd heard others that I respected say. In the introduction to Hebrews, Matthew Henry mentioned other possibilities like Clemens of Rome, Luke, Barnabas etc and explained why they were possibilities, but had this to say about Paul....

'Some think that the apostle Peter refers to this epistle, and proves Paul to be the penman of it, by telling the Hebrews, to whom he wrote, of Paul's having written to them, 2 Pet. 3:15. We read of no other epistle that he ever wrote to them but this. And though it has been objected that, since Paul put his name to all his other epistles, he would not have omitted it here; yet others have well answered that he, being the apostle of the Gentiles, who were odious to the Jews, might think fit to conceal his name, lest their prejudices against him might hinder them from reading and weighing it as they ought to do."

The intro ends with....

"It must be acknowledged that there are many things in this epistle hard to be understood, but the sweetness we shall find therein will make us abundant amends for all the pains we take to understand it. And indeed, if we compare all the epistles of the New Testament, we shall not find any of them more replenished with divine, heavenly matter than this to the Hebrews."

I'm fully aware that you probably know all of that and I'm not telling you anything new. I have an idea where youre coming from, But again, its important to me that you know where I'm coming from.
Click to expand...

I’ll give the rest the respect it deserves later tonight but....even the southern baptism preacher next door to me conceded that it’s not written by Paul as it says the information inside the book was learned from those who got it from Messiah and then confirmed to “us” who never heard or saw Messiah. Paul received his knowledge from Messiah directly and not from his followers.

Hebrews 2:3
3 how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? [d]After it was at the first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard,

The writer of Hebrews has no direct contact with Messiah.
 
#7,491
#7,491
Orangeslice13 said:
it’s not written by Paul as it says the information inside the book was learned from those who got it from Messiah and then confirmed to “us” who never heard or saw Messiah. Paul received his knowledge from Messiah directly and not from his followers.

Hebrews 2:3
3 how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? [d]After it was at the first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard,

The writer of Hebrews has no direct contact with Messiah.
Click to expand...
I don't know what you mean by "the information inside this book".

It seems clear to me that the writer isn't talking about the book of Hebrews, he's speaking to the Hebrews about the word of God. Verse one says in the old testament days he spoke at sundry times (in several parts) and in divers manner (ways he saw fit to communicate his mind...dreams, visions, audible voice, commandments on stone etc).

In verse 2 he's speaking of the new testament being spoken by Jesus, which is confusing if you don't believe in the trinity, but its only confusing by wordage. It doesn't change anything.

Whoever the writer of Hebrews is, is saying we all should pay attention to the Word of God and be careful not to " slip" or drift. He's encouraging all of us including him to seek and believe in the word because salvation is everything.

So, the way I understand 2:3, the writer is simply saying ...how will we (all of us) escape if we neglect such a great salvation that compares to nothing, which was told to us in the beginning of man in the old testament by God and was confirmed to us by those that heard him. Continue with 4.. God also testifying with them, both by signs and wonders and by various[m]miracles and by [n]gifts of the Holy Spiritaccording to His own will.

Edit: where did "The writer of Hebrews has no direct contact with Messiah." come from?
 
Last edited:
#7,492
#7,492
“It was spoken first by the Lord, then confirmed to us by those who heard”

The us (person including themselves with the audience the letter is intended for) writing the letter to the Hebrews heard from those who directly heard it from Messiah.

It’s my opinion that Appolos wrote Hebrews. It would explain why the author makes so many small errors that a Pharisee (Paul) would not make.
 
  • Like
Reactions: vol445
#7,493
#7,493
Paul references Appolos in a way that makes it clear he had a huge following and was writing letters.

1 cor 3

For when (H)one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not mere (I)men?

5 What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? (J)Servants through whom you believed, even (K)as the Lord gave opportunity to each one.6 (L)I planted, (M)Apollos watered, but (N)God was causing the growth. 7 So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will (O)receive his own [b]reward according to his own labor. 9 For we are God’s (P)fellow workers; you are God’s [c](Q)field, God’s (R)building.
 
#7,494
#7,494
I thought you might be interested in this. Its just the 3rd section of Matthew Henry's introduction to Hebrews. I found it very informational.
​
As to the scope and design of this epistle, it is very evident that it was clearly to inform the minds, and strongly to confirm the judgment, of the Hebrews in the transcendent excellency of the gospel above the law, and so to take them off from the ceremonies of the law, to which they were so wedded, of which they were so fond, that they even doted on them, and those of them who were Christians retained too much of the old leaven, and needed to be purged from it.

The design of this epistle was to persuade and press the believing Hebrews to a constant adherence to the Christian faith, and perseverance in it, notwithstanding all the sufferings they might meet with in so doing. In order to this, the apostle speaks much of the excellency of the author of the gospel, the glorious Jesus, whose honour he advances, and whom he justly prefers before all others, showing him to be all in all, and this in lofty strains of holy rhetoric.
 
#7,495
#7,495
Orangeslice13 said:
“It was spoken first by the Lord, then confirmed to us by those who heard”

The us (person including themselves with the audience the letter is intended for) writing the letter to the Hebrews heard from those who directly heard it from Messiah.
Click to expand...
Could have been confirmed to Paul by Peter and John and the rest of the disciple's. And Jesus did show himself to Paul also. So he technically heard him(Jesus).
Just my two cents.. I will see myself out.
 
#7,497
#7,497
Orangeslice13 said:
“It was spoken first by the Lord, then confirmed to us by those who heard”

The us (person including themselves with the audience the letter is intended for) writing the letter to the Hebrews heard from those who directly heard it from Messiah.

It’s my opinion that Appolos wrote Hebrews. It would explain why the author makes so many small errors that a Pharisee (Paul) would not make.
Click to expand...

Okay, Lol so we disagree on who wrote it. I'm not convinced it was Paul but I don't see enough evidence to the contrary.

It (the word) was spoken first by the Lord (God) then confirmed (by the word..the Bible) to us (everyone) by those who heard.
 
#7,500
#7,500
Behr said:
Okay, Lol so we disagree on who wrote it. I'm not convinced it was Paul but I don't see enough evidence to the contrary.

It (the word) was spoken first by the Lord (God) then confirmed (by the word..the Bible) to us (everyone) by those who heard.
Click to expand...
We’ve got to back up and cover a lot later but you’re going to find out I’m very much not anti-Paul. I’m very pro Paul. The true Paul. Not the distorted Paul who’s being taught these days.

Paul who went too the temple and took a vow to affirm the law so that those who we’re already misunderstanding him in their day would know that the law was still the standard according to G-d. And the Messiah whom G-d sent.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement

Back
Top