Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

#50,978
#50,978
volfan_89 said:
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lol well i can think BOTH protests are dumb or right or wrong, and its STILL two different things.

My issue with Kap's kneeling (he had every right to) is that he expected the NFL to go along with it (they dont have to), that he was pushing the false BLM narrative of "the police like to kill blacks for no reason", and he himself comes from a rich white family, so he is really hypocritical
 
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#50,980
#50,980
LouderVol said:
I had mentioned it earlier in the thread the final tallies will paint the picture, even with our government pulling the Anti China and counting too much as CV instead of too little. Both sides are doing it for the agenda angle.

Like going back to people hating on Trump for not shutting down the country in early March. Why would he if the numbers were low? I have no doubt shelter in place helped the CV numbers, but with how transmission works and the impact it has on 98% of the infected I dont see why we reacted anywhere close to the way we did. Which is why I am ticked at the bad numbers everywhere.

I think the time period we have already been thru are the worst numbers we will see. And I am still willing to bet real money or at least a real dinner (ask McDad) that the numbers hit now will take away from them average at the end of the year. Even if it's a 5% increase for april to may the average tells the real picture.

But it all depends on consistent number reporting which is why states counting any death as CV or anyone positive as CV skews the numbers. And generally in a way that makes a real look at this impossible.
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MD has counted less than 100 deaths as CV deaths without a positive test.

The only other state to my knowledge that is doing that is NY. And those deaths are easily separated by the CDC. And we can do it too. The number is about 25% of the total.

And even in NY I do not think that any death is a CV death for those that don’t have a positive test. But if medical examiner lists probable CV among other things like pneumonia and flu them it gets counted for now in the heat of the epidemic. I’m just not wired to see that as conspiracy or a problem. We can see what the counts are in both cases. And I would highly encourage the probable cases to be listed in a separate category but for now they aren’t.

(I have no problem with a medical examiner ruling a death as CV if several people in a home had tested positive and grandma had the same symptoms but was too sick to go get tested and died at home - or same thing in a nursing home. But I would take issue with a medical examiner walking into a ‘clean’ nursing home and saying - oh, old person died? CV death.)
 
#50,982
#50,982
utvolpj said:
You hit one of the biggest which is economic cost. Figure that in per death and most may not believe it
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We are averaging just under 4 million jobless claims a week in response to this.

By april 15 we had added 26.3 million unemployed. That doesnt cover who have seen their pay decrease.

We are looking at 400 job losses per death.

It varies by the individual on where their line is on how many should suffer to save 1 life. But I doubt too many lines are at 400 people without jobs to do so.
 
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#50,983
#50,983
rjd970 said:
I'm just going to throw this question out there. Had there been a large group of black people openly carrying firearms into the state, does anybody think they get treated differently than these protesters?
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Good question. There would have probably been some shots fired.
 
#50,984
#50,984
Behr said:
Like what?

I hadn't thought about it until he asked and that was what I came up with in a short period. Seemed reasonable to me, but I'm all ears.

I've been in the food industry my whole life and I can see where the sanitation in a place that deals with raw beef, poultry and pork could be a hotspot more than places that don't deal in any food whatsoever.
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Demographics? Living conditions? I just suspect those contribute. They may be getting infected outside the plant more so than inside. The plant may have nothing to do with it other than they all happen to show up there for work.
 
#50,985
#50,985
volfan_89 said:
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And they call antifa cowards for covering their faces, someone please find the picture of the group standing in front of the governors office with their faces covered. I am for the 2nd Amendment but the way they're going about this is so over the top moronic and it makes them look like mental midgets.
 
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#50,986
#50,986
volfan_89 said:
I’ve actually thought about this since I saw your question to and my the best example I can of is the civil rights protests in the 1950’s-60’s. They marched and protested peacefully and believed nonviolence to be the way to get their movement to work. Even when they themselves were attacked and jailed multiple times.

How do you think these protesters would’ve responded to the same attacks and had been arrested and jailed? Nobody will ever know the answer but I’d venture to guess that it wouldn’t be as peaceful.

I fully respect gun ownership and gun rights but marching around with military style guns on a state capital does seem at least a little excessive, imo.
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MLK was peaceful. But there was a TON of violence all around the civil rights movement, on both sides. That's what set MLK apart.

That doesnt answer why they ended up being succesful.

I think the guns here are a red herring.

1 guy with 1 gun, 10 guns etc, that was as peaceful as Michigan as hers nothing done.
10 guys with 10 guns gets nothing done.

1000 people with maybe 100 guns, got something done. And the guns were complete non factors in what happened as they were never used. Might as well blame the amount of blue jeans that were worn.

It's the number of people that matter. It's their collective voices that matter. Whether that was MLK or Michigan (not saying michigan anywhere close to MLK), it's people that made their voices heard. Like I said it's not so easy for lawmakers to make one decision when they have people protesting it in numbers that cant be ignored.
 
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#50,987
#50,987
zeppelin128 said:
I'll just tuck this vehement support of protest in my hat. Next time any Red Hat gets pissy about a protest, I can just bring this up.
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As long as the protest is peaceful and they aren’t blocking the roadways , I will say the same about any protesters . It’s their right to protest peacefully .
 
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#50,990
#50,990
SmokyRiverDog said:
Demographics? Living conditions? I just suspect those contribute. They may be getting infected outside the plant more so than inside. The plant may have nothing to do with it other than they all happen to show up there for work.
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Okay how? Answer your own question. What is unique about meat packing employees that make them more susceptible? Other than what I've already mentioned, I'm not seeing it.
 
#50,992
#50,992
LouderVol said:
We are averaging just under 4 million jobless claims a week in response to this.

By april 15 we had added 26.3 million unemployed. That doesnt cover who have seen their pay decrease.

We are looking at 400 job losses per death.

It varies by the individual on where their line is on how many should suffer to save 1 life. But I doubt too many lines are at 400 people without jobs to do so.
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I’m trying to get some GDP numbers but can’t find them. I would like to compare GDP in January vs April, take the amount drop, and divide it by deaths in that time frame. I suspect you will see some really crazy numbers.
 
#50,993
#50,993
SmokyRiverDog said:
Demographics? Living conditions? I just suspect those contribute. They may be getting infected outside the plant more so than inside. The plant may have nothing to do with it other than they all happen to show up there for work.
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So they test positive. How many are showing symptoms, and even dying? This is a question that needs to be asked. Contracting the virus, in and of itself, isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
 
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#50,995
#50,995
rjd970 said:
I’m trying to get some GDP numbers but can’t find them. I would like to compare GDP in January vs April, take the amount drop, and divide it by deaths in that time frame. I suspect you will see some really crazy numbers.
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Yup. And I think overtime will be telling too. Not just a year out, but several. Jobs dont come back as fast as they go away.
 
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#50,997
#50,997
TennTradition said:
I agree with this. There are lessons to learn here about who needs to shut down and how soon. There will be areas that will need to shut down again once we open back up (in my opinion). I hope that we use discretion around those areas and don't shut down areas that don't need to.

A problem for the US is that a HUGE portion of our GDP is generated by the cities. And the cities are the most likely to have to shut down. And while on one hand, keeping a factory running in Crossville (my home town) is great - it won't continue for long if the GDP is tanking because we had to lock down a lot of urban areas again.

So, that is where I hope we have learned our biggest lessons. How do we open up and stay opened without overwhelming our systems and having real fear (not what people are calling fear now, which in my opinion is just caution) shut things down.
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Why do cities have to shut down as opposed to targeted entities/populations in the cities?
 
#50,998
#50,998
Volsfaninva917 said:
wtf is wrong with people
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This is another example of people over sensationalizing a story. That is not blackface, its a Halloween mask. Its no different than if she wore a Ronald Reagan or Trump mask. Quit trying to use the race card. And just for gits and shiggles, I do think that this is done in poor taste, buts its not blackface.
 
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#50,999
#50,999
TennTradition said:
I would think the right math to do is $/death avoided.

The government generally considers the value of a life to be $10MM. That is whether they are 2 or 82.

So, by spending $2T, we would hope to avoid 200,000 lives lost. We likely did "save" those lives during this period - however, they aren't saved forever unless we have very good treatments developed during this period or we cut the time to a vaccine. So the question is was the $2T spent well?

This gets back to the questions @volinbham was asking. If we are just delaying deaths by spreading the curve, are we saving any lives? So, have we figured out how to treat this better and used that time wisely? Did we avoid overwhelming medical centers and therefore saved lives? That question is definitely yes in places like NYC, Detroit, and probably even places like Atlanta. But the answer is probably not in places less populated.
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I don’t disagree.

Look, I really do appreciate running the numbers and looking at hard data. I’m an engineer by trade with a minor in statistics and mathematics.

At some point though, we need to step away from the computer and look at reality. It’s going to be really hard to convince me that a healthy person in a small town in Florida, or a healthy bake shop owner in Paducah, shouldn’t have been at work over the last month and shouldn’t be at work now...even knowing what we knew then. Multiply that times millions of Americans.

An interpretation of data may suggest a one size fits all response is best, but the reality on the ground says otherwise.

Somebody on here already said it before and I thought it was great. Shutting down the economy the way we did so we could maybe protect some elderly is some next level boomer selfishness.
 
#51,000
#51,000
Rickyvol77 said:
lol well i can think BOTH protests are dumb or right or wrong, and its STILL two different things.

My issue with Kap's kneeling (he had every right to) is that he expected the NFL to go along with it (they dont have to), that he was pushing the false BLM narrative of "the police like to kill blacks for no reason", and he himself comes from a rich white family, so he is really hypocritical
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I agree that both are going about it the wrong way. Memes aren’t necessarily meant to be honest more to evoke a response.
 
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