Recruiting Forum Football Talk II

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#123,677
#123,677
Geaux_Vols said:
Can you cite another thing states wanted to right to choose over so strongly they tried to secede?
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Slavery was the main thing at the time that federal government was threatening to interfere with. I acknowledged that. But the South absolutely believed federal government favored the North. The South had a big issue with tariffs that protected the industry of the North while hurting the agriculture of the South. Economic concern was another factor for the South.
 
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#123,678
#123,678
MrVolton said:
As with most major historical events, there are almost always multiple complex causes. But if you take slavery out of the equation, it’s doubtful that the Civil War ever would have happened.
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It wouldn't have happened as quickly, but I don't think it fair to say it would never have happened. If the federal government kept passing laws that favored the North and its industry, I think it could still have happened, but probably later.
 
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#123,679
#123,679
Not a golfer and no pretension of expanded insight on the subject, but Nicklaus and the other greats before and after him are products of their era. Woods would be great anytime but he benefitted from modern clubs and his dad’s obsessive cultivation of his skills. As in any sport, “greatest of all time” is unprovable.
 
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#123,681
#123,681
Bassmaster_Vol said:
Because he is. I don’t have to go back and watch babe Ruth games to know that he wasnt better than mike trout
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Someday, there will be another Tiger/Jack/Hogan/Jones “greatest of their era” type player, and it will annoy you when some kid says, “Yeah, I’ve watched some Tiger highlights, but he doesn’t hold a candle to X.”

Tale as old as sports themselves.
 
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#123,683
#123,683
TrippieRedd said:
Besides WR's, who tf does Florida have that will beat us this upcoming season?

Offense
Kyle Trask - QB
Damien Pierce - RB
Trevon Grimes - WR
Jacob Copeland - WR
Kadarius Toney - WR
Kyle Pitts - TE
Their O-line will be alright


Defense
Zach Carter - DL
Dunlap Jr - DL
Campbell - DL
Cox Jr. - Buck
Houston - ILB
Miller - ILB
Wilson - Star
Jaydon Hill/ Kaiir Elam - CB
Dean - CB
Stiner - S
Stewart - S

I don't see a strong team. Prove me wrong.
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They’ll be overhyped and overrated as per usual but it’ll drive the narrative that they’re doing so much better than us and put them in the top 10
 
#123,684
#123,684
Jimmy Football said:
Someday, there will be another Tiger/Jack/Hogan/Jones “greatest of their era” type player, and it will annoy you when some kid says, “Yeah, I’ve watched some Tiger highlights, but he doesn’t hold a candle to X.”

Tale as old as sports themselves.
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If he is he is. No one has ever played the game the way tiger did in his day. They never “jack proofed” a course. Jack isn’t anywhere near the athlete Tiger is. Jack was great but did not dominate the way Tiger did. Tiger has more wins. Jack has 3 more majors. I wish Tiger hadn’t self destructed because if he hadn’t jack wouldn’t have that record either.
 
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#123,685
#123,685
butchna said:
Not a golfer and no pretension of expanded insight on the subject, but Nicklaus and the other greats before and after him are products of their era. Woods would be great anytime but he benefitted from modern clubs and his dad’s obsessive cultivation of his skills. As in any sport, “greatest of all time” is unprovable.
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Tiger has better equipment than Jack. But not better equipment than his peers. He dominated them.
 
#123,687
#123,687
GojiraVol17 said:
They’ll be overhyped and overrated as per usual but it’ll drive the narrative that they’re doing so much better than us and put them in the top 10
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I despise FL. But they are 10-3 and 11-2 the last 2 seasons while we’re 5-7 and 8-5. They have been doing better than us. Way better.

Hope that shite changes in 2020.
 
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#123,688
#123,688
TrippieRedd said:
Besides WR's, who tf does Florida have that will beat us this upcoming season?

Offense
Kyle Trask - QB
Damien Pierce - RB
Trevon Grimes - WR
Jacob Copeland - WR
Kadarius Toney - WR
Kyle Pitts - TE
Their O-line will be alright


Defense
Zach Carter - DL
Dunlap Jr - DL
Campbell - DL
Cox Jr. - Buck
Houston - ILB
Miller - ILB
Wilson - Star
Jaydon Hill/ Kaiir Elam - CB
Dean - CB
Stiner - S
Stewart - S

I don't see a strong team. Prove me wrong.
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Trask is a very smart, solid QB. We don’t know if we have that. Their RB room is stacked too.

Defense will probably be about even but I think we have the better secondary for once. Our Dline might be better depth-wise but I think they’ve got a bunch of high impact dudes there too.

We have them at home which helps but unless we get competent QB play we aren’t going to beat them
 
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#123,691
#123,691
Crazy Ivan said:
Nor should we glaze it over because it was a key issue, probably The key issue. My response was really only in regard to the Clint Smith tweet re: Frederick Douglas that you posted. While I agree with Douglas that there was an attempt in the South after the war to re-define the war as the noble Lost Cause, to me discounting that notion doesn't also mean that Lee and his army did not consider their fight for the preservation of Virginia, or whatever state they came from, as a noble cause.

Lee himself wrote even before the war that he did not agree with slavery and thought it would eventually end, but like most everyone else, he had grown up with it being a part of the way of life in the South. And he, like the majority of Virginians, when they finally did support secession, it was not over slavery, but over a state's right to own slaves if it chose to, or secede if it chose to. So while Lee found slavery distasteful, he found even more distasteful the idea of what he considered the federal government over-reaching its constitutional powers.

If we are going to condemn Lee, then we can also have to condemn the Founding Fathers, who knowingly protected slavery in the Constitution. Or, like Lee, we can examine their actions through the lens of their time, not through the lens we get to look back through today. And while protecting slavery was distasteful to them, the alternative, the southern states refusal to sign and ratify the Constitution, was even more problematic, so they made the compromise because they believed ratification of the Constitution was critical to the young nation. And I think with Southerners like Lee we have to apply the same understanding; worry about slavery down the road but deal with the more immediate issue now, which was to protect what he felt was protected rights of states.
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I’m going to respond to this, but I have to sign off for a bit to hang some sheetrock. Really enjoyed the discussion, y’all. Makes these quarantine days fly by.
 
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#123,692
#123,692
Bassmaster_Vol said:
If he is he is. No one has ever played the game the way tiger did in his day. They never “jack proofed” a course. Jack isn’t anywhere near the athlete Tiger is. Jack was great but did not dominate the way Tiger did. Tiger has more wins. Jack has 3 more majors. I wish Tiger hadn’t self destructed because if he hadn’t jack wouldn’t have that record either.
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Look, Bass. I actually think Tiger might be better than Jack, and Tiger still has a career left to remove all doubt.

But it’s eminently debatable, and I don’t think you’re giving Jack his due. If you did, you'd be just as on the fence about it as I am. He was incredible. I was just as amazed watching him growing up as I was watching Tiger. I also recognize that there were arguably comparably good players before Jack even teed up his first drive.

When you have your arguments with Hank, I can tell it bugs you that he thinks no one could play basketball before the year 2000. Same thing here.
 
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#123,693
#123,693
Geaux_Vols said:
Can you cite another thing states wanted to right to choose over so strongly they tried to secede?
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Taxes, oversight on their local government or extent of such. Still exists. Too many powerful figures either had a personal investment in legal slavery or had financial backing from those who did...still exists but is called lobbying and special interests. War wouldn’t have broken out without slavery but the vast bulk had no stake in the institution. Newt brought up the movie Cold Mountain. Something that stood out that was truly fact based was the peer pressure and “home guard”. There was no such thing as conscientious objector. Your Nazi soldier analogy was off base because most of the GERMANS weren’t Nazi’s. Nazi’s were in control and the “Jewish Solution” was on a need to know basis. Millions of German soldiers died maybe suspecting that Jewish family that disappeared had a bad ending but KNOWING nothing close to the ghastly truth. The war was needed to end this crap...everything else is ancillary.
 
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#123,694
#123,694
Jimmy Football said:
Look, Bass. I actually think Tiger might be better than Jack, and Tiger still has a career left to remove all doubt.

But it’s eminently debatable, and I don’t think you’re giving Jack his due. If you did, you'd be just as on the fence about it as I am. He was incredible. I was just as amazed watching him growing up as I was watching Tiger. I also recognize that there were arguably comparably good players before Jack even teed up his first drive.

When you have your arguments with Hank, I can tell it bugs you that he thinks no one could play basketball before the year 2000. Same thing here.
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I’m not saying Jack wasn’t great. Tiger is just a phenom. Changed the game
 
#123,696
#123,696
Bassmaster_Vol said:
So anytime we acknowledge that someone is the greatest ever it’s recency bias? My dad watched Jack’s career and believes Tiger is the greatest. The opposite also happens. People are so attached to the past they can’t acknowledge that anyone younger is better. There are people who still believe that Babe Ruth is the best baseball player ever. He’s not. That’s what is happening here.
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Acknowledging an OPINION is just that. Don’t delude yourself into making it more.
 
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#123,697
#123,697
Florida is ****. We better beat them this year, no excuses. We have the better O and Dlines and the better secondary for once. Our RB’s are just as good.
 
#123,699
#123,699
Bassmaster_Vol said:
82 wins. “Tiger proofed” courses. Jack was great but come on. Nobody has ever played the game the way Tiger did in his prime. Just a fact
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Nope. Obviously not a golfer. Level of competition during the eras, differences in equipment, as well as the number of second place finishes in addition to wins in the majors tell a different story. The golf world said the same thing about Nicklaus in his prime. Nicklaus was a bomber as well. His iron play far surpassed Tiger's. Tiger is a better putter and chipping around the green. Jack had serious eye problems and in his late 30's and 40's had no depth perception - which made the Masters win at age 46 even more phenomenal. He did not have the advantages of LASIK eye surgery multiple times like Tiger has - it did not exist. Most of the time he had to be told by his caddie where the shot ended up. Totally dependent on the caddie for distances. Just like Tiger did after him, he made serious modifications in his swing to fit his physical condition multiple times. Jack had serious left hip issues that affected his swing and his back in his early 20's. His back was so bad he took many cortisone injections as a 19 year old. Tiger has serious neck and knee problems that affected him in a similar way.

Look at the 82 wins. How many are concentrated into a handful of tournaments/courses. Buick Invitational, Firestone/Bridgestone, Torey Pines tourneys, etc. Because of his success in the majors, Tiger was able to refine his schedule to playing courses his game fit more so than any player during his era. It helped to have Nike bankrolling his life from the beginning. Nicklaus had to create his own brands and business interests, which took away practice and playing time. There were no big sponsor contracts back then. The Golden Bear on his cap was his creation of his own brand.

I can go with best of his era, but no way Tiger is the goat. Too many technological and other advantages in each succeeding era to declare it for any player.
 
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