Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

[Grey_pilgrim]

Waits because their healthcare system sucks

I’d much rather wait a little longer than have to pay obscene prices for the same medication and medical care.

 

[0nelilreb]

Where’d you hear that? From Trump? If they are it’s mostly because of the wait times, not cost.

How many people from the US are going to Canada for health care ? So the only strain on their system in that sparsely populated country is from Canadians . Now let’s do a quick look at what “ healthcare for all would mean to this country and then tell me how a government ran program with our population ( not to mention anyone that comes into the country ) is going to be better , and cheaper ?

 

[0nelilreb]

I’d much rather wait a little longer than have to pay obscene prices for the same medication and medical care.

Not if you are dying you wouldn’t , you’d be making / scheduling those tests ASAP regardless of cost , because you could and didn’t have to wait .

 

[NCFisher]

I'm sure this is just an anomaly...

Which is Worse: The Coronavirus Pandemic or Trump? (Man on the Street)

 

[West Vol]

I'm sure this is just an anomaly...

Which is Worse: The Coronavirus Pandemic or Trump? (Man on the Street)

Oh my gosh. Metropolitan area doesn’t like the Republican president. Sound the alarm!

 

[allvol123]

So you don’t think that is a factor? You don’t think dividing a nation into fiftieths and having each one behave a little different makes things more complex and therefore necessarily more difficult to predict?

I’m interested in progressing the discussion. You seem to want focus on inventing things I’ve said so you can “win”.

Regardless, what are you getting at by bringing up the errors made in April? Are you suggesting all decisions made by models were misguided?

You seem to not want to budge from a claim even though it has been shown to be false.

 

[West Vol]

You seem to not want to budge from a claim even though it has been shown to be false.

Remember when Jon Crompton lost us all those games and then later became a decent QB and won us some games? He didn’t retroactively have blame taken away for his 2008 failures.

You cited models being bad. I mentioned a confounding variable. You then mentioned a specific date. I immediately granted that the aforementioned variable would not be applicable for that specific date and mentioned another. And here we are a million comments later.

 

[#JuanVol]

OK, time for me to be a bit of a Debbie Downer.​

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Caveat: Cuomo says hospital admissions are going down - and that is solid data. So hopefully will be a positive sign for things to come. However, I'm not as confident as I was before today that this actually reflects cases peaking. It could - but the testing actually doesn't support that. Again - I wonder if hospital admission is dropping because more and more people are being given hydroxychloroquine before arriving at the hospital. But - that should be an easy question? Did Cuomo lift his ban on prescribing HCQ outside of urgent care or hospitals? If not, then I would have to question if that is what is causing the drop.​

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Anyway - the reason I'm not confident that the testing suggests we have reached peak NY new cases/day is below.​

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I pulled all the positive + negative test data from New York and compared their trend in positive /day vs. total tests / day. We are basing a lot of our optimism in New York around the fact that new cases / day are dropping. However, here are the data.​

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Optimistic: Cases/Day Peaked in NY​

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3/30 6984​

3/31 9298​

4/1 7917​

4/2 8669​

4/3 10482 (Peak)​

4/4 10841 (Peak)​

4/5 8327​

4/6 8658​

4/7 8174​

4/8 10453 (Uh-Oh)​

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Pessimism Total Tests / Day Peak in NY​

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3/30 14108​

3/31 18718​

4/1 15694​

4/2 18085​

4/3 21555 (Peak)​

4/4 23101 (Peak)​

4/5 18659​

4/6 18531​

4/7 19247​

4/8 25095 (Hmm....)​

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We cleared about 40,000 pending tests over the weekend of April 3/4 nationally. Some of these must have been in NY because you see a clear spike up over that weekend in tests/day. But, you also see that is what we "saw" as the peak cases in NY. In fact, we ran about 3-4k new cases, and surprise, we had 1.5-2k more cases on those days because we are basically running at 50% positive tests in NY.​

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I'm not so confident this is peaking there.​

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Hopefully I'm wrong.​

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Or at least, hopefully hospital admissions are peaking due to treatments (if not case numbers) and we'll see fewer deaths/day starting sometime next week perhaps.​

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Honestly it is better if cases are still growing but deaths start going down. Because we'll hit herd immunity with fewer deaths that way vs. keeping people from getting infected by social distancing, but then having a hard time getting back to work without it blowing up again.​

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Is there a chance that more and more testing is spreading to even mild cases and people who weren’t tested last week are getting tested now just to see if they had it?

 

[Stew Cook]

How many people from the US are going to Canada for health care ? So the only strain on their system in that sparsely populated country is from Canadians . Now let’s do a quick look at what “ healthcare for all would mean to this country and then tell me how a government ran program with our population ( not to mention anyone that comes into the country ) is going to be better , and cheaper ?

Are you going to examine the insurance cost trends and at which point insurance premiums become unsustainable for the majority of the population?

At what point do costs reach such a level that our healthcare system caters to the top 50, then the top 40... 30 wealth percentile? When does the taxpayer contribution pool become a necessity to sustain the system as a whole, rather than relying on the perpetual debt of those who can't afford premiums of any substantial value?

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

How many people from the US are going to Canada for health care ? So the only strain on their system in that sparsely populated country is from Canadians . Now let’s do a quick look at what “ healthcare for all would mean to this country and then tell me how a government ran program with our population ( not to mention anyone that comes into the country ) is going to be better , and cheaper ?

Calling Canada sparsely populated is misleading. 80% of Canada’s population lives in urban areas. Sure they have miles and miles of nothing, but their urban areas are densely populated.

 

[NCFisher]

Oh my gosh. Metropolitan area doesn’t like the Republican president. Sound the alarm!

Oh, it's a bit more than that when you have MOST people answering "yeah, I'd opt for a longer pandemic and more deaths - a million deaths, yeah, fine - no, there's no limit I'd place on the number of deaths" than have Trump in office.

It's not dislike; it's actually like 20th century socialism and fascism; gotta' break some tens of millions of eggs to make the omelet.

 

[West Vol]

Oh, it's a bit more than that when you have MOST people answering "yeah, I'd opt for a longer pandemic and more deaths - a million deaths, yeah, fine - no, there's no limit I'd place on the number of deaths" than have Trump in office.

It's not dislike; it's actually like 20th century socialism and fascism; gotta' break some tens of millions of eggs to make the omelet.

That says a lot more about those idiots than it does Trump. I’ll sign up for eight more years of Obama right now if it means avoiding millions of dead Americans.

Also, those people are almost certainly full of **** and answering an obviously impossible hypothetical in a way they never would if it they were magically be offered such a choice.

 

[NCFisher]

Not if you are dying you wouldn’t , you’d be making / scheduling those tests ASAP regardless of cost , because you could and didn’t have to wait .

These people...it's so easy to be blase about healthcare when you don't need it. "Wait weeks or months for treatment or diagnostic? Baah...it's 'free." Dying and suffering from forceful absence of care is free, too.

 

[NCFisher]

That says a lot more about those idiots than it does Trump. I’ll sign up for eight more years of Obama right now if it means avoiding millions of dead Americans.

Also, those people are almost certainly full of **** and answering an obviously impossible hypothetical in a way they never would if it they were magically be offered such a choice.

"Impossible hypothetical?" How hard is it to say "No, I simply don't wish more death and suffering because I don't want someone in office, and certainly not millions dead...hell no! man and you fk'd up for even asking it" - ?

That's a slam-dunk, 24 x 7 x 365.
This is the level of derangement on the left, no excuses.

 

[Volsfaninva917]

I’d much rather wait a little longer than have to pay obscene prices for the same medication and medical care.

Really, so your child has just been diagnosed with leukemia and you're told since you have free Canadian health insurance you must wait 6 months for treatment

 

[Stew Cook]

"Impossible hypothetical?" How hard is it to say "No, I simply don't wish more death and suffering because I don't want someone in office, and certainly not millions dead...hell no! man and you fk'd up for even asking it" - ?

That's a slam-dunk, 24 x 7 x 365.
This is the level of derangement on the left, no excuses.

How hard is it to pick the few smartazzez and put them in a montage to create the sensationaliization being sought?

 

[OHvol40]

Means nothing. For that percentage to matter you would have to look at population density, average incomes, employment and several other stats. What matters is whether or not ACA is causing the closure of rural hospitals or not and 5 of the 10 states facing the most closures are states that have expanded medicare.

Lol it doesn’t mean nothing, you just wish it weren’t true.

 

[0nelilreb]

Calling Canada sparsely populated is misleading. 80% of Canada’s population lives in urban areas. Sure they have miles and miles of nothing, but their urban areas are densely populated.

It’s not misleading at all , it’s a sparsely populated country by definition . They have a population of 37.59 with 80 % living in urban settings . The US has a pop of 350 million with 82% living in urban settings . Both have roughly the same land mass ( Canada actually has more ) , so yes ...“ Canada is sparsely populated “

 

[TennTradition]

Is there a chance that more and more testing is spreading to even mild cases and people who weren’t tested last week are getting tested now just to see if they had it?

Possible. I really don't know. But percent positive isn't really moving in NY....same basic number around 45-50%. So doesn't seem to be a big shift in who is getting tested.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

These people...it's so easy to be blase about healthcare when you don't need it. "Wait weeks or months for treatment or diagnostic? Baah...it's 'free." Dying and suffering from abstinence of care is free, too.

If it’s a true emergency you’ll get the care you need. If it’s something that can wait, then it can wait. That another problem with America healthcare. Unnecessary emergency medical treatment. In Canada for example, if you go to the ER with a gallbladder attack they schedule your surgery and send you home with a diet to follow to help prevent future attacks. In the US they’d do the surgery right away, which further drives up the cost of care. Many times a gallbladder attack isn’t life threatening and doesn’t need emergency treatment but in the US it’s treated like it does.

 

[West Vol]

"Impossible hypothetical?" How hard is it to say "No, I simply don't wish more death and suffering because I don't want someone in office, and certainly not millions dead...hell no! man and you fk'd up for even asking it" - ?

That's a slam-dunk, 24 x 7 x 365.
This is the level of derangement on the left, no excuses.

Because if you were handed a button that and told, “Push this and ten million random Americans die and Trump is immediately out of office,” these people aren’t pushing the button.

 

[NCFisher]

How hard is it to pick the few smartazzez and put them in a montage to create the sensationaliization being sought?

He acknowledged that fortunately it wasn't the case for all, but that most would surveyed would take more C19.
Surprising you find that surprising in a leftist enclave.

 

[MurphyVol]

Calling Canada sparsely populated is misleading. 80% of Canada’s population lives in urban areas. Sure they have miles and miles of nothing, but their urban areas are densely populated.

Here's a fun fact, 60-70% of Canadians live south of Seattle

 

[0nelilreb]

Are you going to examine the insurance cost trends and at which point insurance premiums become unsustainable for the majority of the population?

At what point do costs reach such a level that our healthcare system caters to the top 50, then the top 40... 30 wealth percentile? When does the taxpayer contribution pool become a necessity to sustain the system as a whole, rather than relying on the perpetual debt of those who can't afford premiums of any substantial value?

As long as you screeching “ government ran and health care for all “ . I have zero interest in it “ until you can show me ONE program that the government has ran successfully that didn’t go into the red and at the cost quality . These are known facts not hypothetical situations , history is screaming at us to pay attention .

 

[Stew Cook]

He acknowledged that fortunately it wasn't the case for all, but that most would surveyed would take more C19.
Surprising you find that surprising in a leftist enclave.

I don't find it surprising at all that Ben Shapiro would try to fuel the hate that the right desperately seeks on a daily basis, it's sort of his thing, after all.