Recruiting Forum Football Talk II

[drvenner]

Double check your math, Dr. Venner.

Seriously, thanks for the correction. I have no excuse so I am blaming it on COVID stress.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

You've got a decimal too far to the right in that scenario.

Still, I'm pretty mortified we're hypothetically trading millions of lives for the economy's hypothetical well-being.

If over a million people die (1.4 to 4.7 in SS's scenario) of a virus in a matter of weeks and tens of millions more end up hospitalized (of which more would die for lack or care), the economy's taking a hit one way or the other.

So, that means even if we sacrificed "a few million lives," we'd be sacrificing even more because we'd be out of beds, out of medical professionals, out of medicine, and out of life-saving equipment. Again, it's not just the deaths, a huge chunk will tie up hospital resources for one or more weeks per case.

This thing was going to hurt one way or the other. The only thing that could have helped is jumping on it from the start. We didn't. Here we are.

It will get to almost everybody..and that is a mathematical fact as far as I can tell. This ain't stopping it, it is just slowing it down. It is taking a horrific two month disaster, and turning into a horrific indefinite disaster. Lives will be assuredly saved by a slow burn, but what kind of life will there be left to live?

I am not disagreeing with you I just think people acting like this will stop it are fooling themselves..we all have to go to stores, and nobody will stay cooped up for six months...the world is not made up of Howard Hughes types...people will get sick of it and that will be that.

 

[Jimmy Football]

Still, I'm pretty mortified we're hypothetically trading millions of lives for the economy's hypothetical well-being.

It’s the way you’re framing it, in this sort of “dollars for bodies” exchange. But most people I know fretting about the economy are less worried about their 401k and more worried that long-term economic damage may end up costing more lives than the short-term effects of the virus.

They might end up being wrong, sure. But it’s not wrong to consider the possibility.

 

[jakez4ut]

I hope mandated measures are never used again. But I dont trust politicians. Period. Most are power hungry narcissists. Look at Pelosi during this tried to sneak in unrelated crap into a bill about this unprecedented pandemic. These people are mostly s**t heads.

oh, i don't disagree. i just trust "people" less than i trust the government, especially when me and my family's health and well being are at stake....we can't even get to work int he mornings w/out being cussed at or cussing at someone in traffic...and this is the group you want to trust the health of the population to? lol.


@Weezer mentioned it....but this isn't the sith taking over the senate and starting the gallactic empire...lol.

 

[WriterVol]

It will get to almost everybody..and that is a mathematical fact as far as I can tell. This ain't stopping it, it is just slowing it down. It is taking a horrific two month disaster, and turning into a horrific indefinite disaster. Lives will be assuredly saved by a slow burn, but what kind of life will there he to live?

I am not disagreeing with you I just think people acting like this will stop it are fooling themselves..we all have to go to stores, and nobody will stay cooped up for six months...the world is not made up of Howard Hughes types...people will get sick of it and that will be that.

I don't disagree. I don't think it will be done this summer in my extremely unqualified opinion.

BUT if we can get the numbers low enough, we can re-open a new normal until a vaccine is widely available. That's why getting the numbers down right now is so important. The best time to plant a tree is twenty years ago; the second best time is right now.

You want normal? Shelter now. Get everyone to follow. That's how we get out of this thing faster and with the least pain.

 

[scvolfan7]

 

[jakez4ut]

I feel exactly the same way...It amazes me that people are just like "whatever, no big deal"..

We all need to say the government very loudly and clearly...and f'n united for once..."This crap is only temporary, so don't get used to it".

surely, that's not what you've gotten from my thoughts on this, right?

and no one is arguing for it to be permenant? some of you have just assumed that's the REAL end game here, and off we went.........lol.

 

[Pepe]

Just read that nine people in Knox county had committed suicide in the last two days...who was it that said that would be an issue?

The longer this goes on the worse that will get..exponentially..just like the virus.

Social interaction is important for mental health

 

[Jimmy Football]

Seriously, thanks for the correction. I have no excuse so I am blaming it on COVID stress.

Lol. No problem, doc.

 

[chargervol]

hey, if your bound and determined to believe it is just gonna be that way, i'm not here to stop you....lol.

but i think it's still being overblown by quite a bit, given the circumstance.

as for the Patriot act....it's unrelated to this, but i'll just say......i've got nothing to worry about in regards to that...as do the vast majority of people in this country.
and besides, one thing that could be simialr is that we'l probably never know how much disaster that has saved us from, nor will we ever really know the extent of the invasion of privacy supposedly going on for "normal" folks. it's probably worse than i think it is, and probablly not as bad as you do...lol.

same with this pandemic, measures we take right now, for as long as we take, we really won't ever know just how many livest that might save.

i think, however, if nothing else, we've shown to have a firm grasp of ever single worst case scenario out there.....so i'm gonna guess "a lot".....

I've been 100% with you thru this discussion. But the main reason is because I don't believe in pre- worrying. Have no reason to believe these policies are anything but temporary, for and during a declared state of emergency.

But not a fan of permanent laws like the Patriot Act. I'm sure it has saved countless lives. And they could take away several more rights and save countless others. But that's the polar opposite of the entire design.

Some may think I'm being hypocritical but the difference between temporary, like we've done countless times during wars etc., and truly "taking our liberties" - permanently, is huge to me.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Social interaction is important for mental health

Yes it is.

 

[jakez4ut]

I don't disagree. I don't think it will be done this summer in my extremely unqualified opinion.

BUT if we can get the numbers low enough, we can re-open a new normal until a vaccine is widely available. That's why getting the numbers down right now is so important. The best time to plant a tree is twenty years ago; the second best time is right now.

You want normal? Shelter now. Get everyone to follow. That's how we get out of this thing faster and with the least pain.

yup. i'm in. let's do it now. and for as long as we need to.
if we have to do this again in the late summer/fall, it'll be worse the 2nd time around.....likely because the measures will be a lot stricter.....we need to buy as much time as we can right now.....

 

[WriterVol]

It’s the way you’re framing it, in this sort of “dollars for bodies” exchange. But most people I know fretting about the economy are less worried about their 401k and more worried that long-term economic damage may end up costing more lives than the short-term effects of the virus.

They might end up being wrong, sure. But it’s not wrong to consider the possibility.

That is an excellent point, and I'm glad you framed it that way. I'm extremely worried about the economy. I think the best path forward from here is to get the infection numbers as low as possible immediately. Then, we can re-open with mitigation efforts. Aggressive case monitoring and contact tracing. Regional shut-downs may be necessary.

All with the goal of getting to a vaccine. Re-opening after the first curve doesn't get us there. If cases go back up again, many people won't go out--government mandate or not. The economic pain continues. Get to the vaccine. Keep yourself healthy.

Anyone who thinks life and the economy was going to chug along while our hospitals were being overrun and refrigerator trucks were being used is kidding themselves.

 

[Kristy*]

On a different note, thanks to those who recommended Outlander. Excellent show so far!

 

[jakez4ut]

I've been 100% with you thru this discussion. But the main reason is because I don't believe in pre- worrying. Have no reason to believe these policies are anything but temporary, for and during a declared state of emergency.

But not a fan of permanent laws like the Patriot Act. I'm sure it has saved countless lives. And they could take away several more rights and save countless others. But that's the polar opposite of the entire design.

Some may think I'm being hypocritical but the difference between temporary, like we've done countless times during wars etc., and truly "taking our liberties" - permanently, is huge to me.

and i don't have an issue with that....fundamentally, i agree. if i had a real say in the matter, i'd rather not have big brother with access to err'thing either....

but the pre worrying is what gets me....not to discount others pov here, but what we're debating here is a completely made up problem, based on an outcome that is a complete unknown presently... in a situation that is unpredented in our modern history....

and it all started with some dummie in FL doing something stooopid....stop me if you've heard this one before.......lol.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

surely, that's not what you've gotten from my thoughts on this, right?

and no one is arguing for it to be permenant? some of you have just assumed that's the REAL end game here, and off we went.........lol.

No I don't, but I don't think the prospect of government overreach concerns you nearly enough. It is as dangerous, or even more dangerous than thos stupid virus.

Do you want to take a guess at how many people were killed, and were often tortured extensively before being killed, in the previous century be their own governments enforcing "Law"..." for the welfare of the people"..?

Covid-19 if let run completely wild would never come close in a hundred years.

Government overreach scares me way more than any virus ever will.

 

[RikidyBones]

oh, i don't disagree. i just trust "people" less than i trust the government, especially when me and my family's health and well being are at stake....we can't even get to work int he mornings w/out being cussed at or cussing at someone in traffic...and this is the group you want to trust the health of the population to? lol.


@Weezer mentioned it....but this isn't the sith taking over the senate and starting the gallactic empire...lol.

It isnt the sith until it is and when it is, it's too late. See Venezuela, Cuba, Russia and many examples throughout history.

It would add a color to my rainbow if we could get through something like this and we go right back to life before but history tells us that itll be unlikely.

There is an avenue to have less bureaucracy by ridding of Chinas hold, by breaking away from WHO and other "world" organizations (which have seemed the most corrupt), etc. I hope we come out of this without much regret.

 

[WriterVol]

and i don't have an issue with that....fundamentally, i agree. if i had a real say in the matter, i'd rather not have big brother with access to err'thing either....

but the pre worrying is what gets me....not to discount others pov here, but what we're debating here is a completely made up problem, based on an outcome that is a complete unknown presently... in a situation that is unpredented in our modern history....

and it all started with some dummie in FL doing something stooopid....stop me if you've heard this one before.......lol.

I get the worry. I worry about eroding individual rights, the taking of privacy, and other measures we've seen come through over time.

This isn't one of those times for me. This is actively, tangibly saving lives. Still, I can understand the idea of keeping an eye on that issue as we move through this thing.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

I don't disagree. I don't think it will be done this summer in my extremely unqualified opinion.

BUT if we can get the numbers low enough, we can re-open a new normal until a vaccine is widely available. That's why getting the numbers down right now is so important. The best time to plant a tree is twenty years ago; the second best time is right now.

You want normal? Shelter now. Get everyone to follow. That's how we get out of this thing faster and with the least pain.

I would really love to for myself..but I and my wife have obligations...I simply cannot in good conscience.

Quitting our jobs is tempting, especially since we don't really have to have the money from working. I mean I am human, but I would rather spit in this things face while dying, than go down knowing I walked away from my obligation out of fear.

 

[GiggerVol]

View attachment 269388

Everyone needs some coffee in their diet. The dinosours didn't and look what happened to them!

 

[RikidyBones]

No I don't, but I don't think the prospect of government overreach concerns you nearly enough. It is as dangerous, or even more dangerous than thos stupid virus.

Do you want to take a guess at how many people were killed, and were often tortured extensively before being killed, in the previous century be their own governments enforcing "Law"..." for the welfare of the people"..?

Covid-19 if let run completely wild would never come close in a hundred years.

Government overreach scares me way more than any virus ever will.

To me it's like when a murder or kidnapping happens in a neighborhood and the most common thing you hear is "I never thought it would happen here". Well now it's too late, it happened and you're stuck with it.

 

[Weezer]

oh, i don't disagree. i just trust "people" less than i trust the government, especially when me and my family's health and well being are at stake....we can't even get to work int he mornings w/out being cussed at or cussing at someone in traffic...and this is the group you want to trust the health of the population to? lol.


@Weezer mentioned it....but this isn't the sith taking over the senate and starting the gallactic empire...lol.

You sure?

 

[chargervol]

and i don't have an issue with that....fundamentally, i agree. if i had a real say in the matter, i'd rather not have big brother with access to err'thing either....

but the pre worrying is what gets me....not to discount others pov here, but what we're debating here is a completely made up problem, based on an outcome that is a complete unknown presently... in a situation that is unpredented in our modern history....

and it all started with some dummie in FL doing something stooopid....stop me if you've heard this one before.......lol.

Yeah, we've had mentions of the "when it goes wrong", The Patriot Act and so on but there's been way more temporary accounts that had no long lasting laws.

There's been countless shelter in place orders during wartime and riots. They're not being mentioned because they're not notable. As long as there is no permanent policies, it's somewhat standard. We've just been fortunate not to have many reasons to enact for quite some time.

 

[rekinhavoc]

No I don't, but I don't think the prospect of government overreach concerns you nearly enough. It is as dangerous, or even more dangerous than thos stupid virus.

Do you want to take a guess at how many people were killed, and were often tortured extensively before being killed, in the previous century be their own governments enforcing "Law"..." for the welfare of the people"..?

Covid-19 if let run completely wild would never come close in a hundred years.

Government overreach scares me way more than any virus ever will.

Look what happened to Joe Exotic.

 

[WriterVol]

I would really love to for myself..but I and my wife have obligations...I simply cannot in good conscience.

Quitting our jobs is tempting, especially since we don't really have to have the money from working. I mean I am human, but I would rather spit in this things face while dying, than go down knowing I walked away from my obligation out of fear.

Do what you can and don't take unnecessary risks. That's all I can ask of anyone. We all have our obligations. Just take the best care of yourself you can. Not everyone can shelter in place. I get that.

But take care of yourself, McGill. We're going to need you on the other side of this thing.

That goes for all you other morans here.