Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

#23,576
#23,576
volinbham said:
I get what TT is saying that you don't allocate by population, you allocate by need.

That said, even the hottest of hotspots is sitting on thousands of unused vents at this time. Given it might take 5 days max to transport them there's no need at this time to pull from the national reserve to send to NY.
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But Cuomo says Trump won't give them to him.... Trump is the mean bad orange man letting people die.

This really is a political shitshow and certain people are eating it up. It's not enough to blame Trump for his actual missteps. They have to make **** up as well.

Plenty of people I dislike. I don't have to make crap up not to like them. Trump is an obnoxious ass hat. That's reason enough not to like him. Stop making **** up.
 
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#23,577
#23,577
Stew Cook said:
Well, Trump said Cuomo didn't need them. maybe he should seize Cuomo's shipments of ventilators coming in from other places and put them in a central warehouse.
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Has Cuomo presented data to bolster his claimed need? He must have some basis; what is it?
 
#23,578
#23,578
VolStrom said:
Once the demand outstrips supply is when the crap is going to hit the fan. How do they decide where to distribute the available ventilators when they don't have enough to ship.
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I doubt it will every outstrip supply in this country. There may be geographic issues but given the ramp in production and projections of total needed I think we will have it covered.
 
#23,579
#23,579
MOOOOONEY said:
Isn’t wishing death and sickness on Americans for political gain the very definition of a sociopath?

Sociopath tendencies:

1. Mourn the death of a terrorist
2. Defend China after they released the wuhan virus on the world.
3. Sensationalize a ventilator shortage in New York. Saying thousands are dying because of the lack of ventilators. Saying multiple patients are hooked up to one ventilator. While in fact a thousand are in storage.
4. Hoping the economy crashes and millions lose their job and 401k savings.
5. Wishing death and sickness on Americans.

I hate to break the good news to you but no matter how much you and your ilk wish the destruction of America it’s not happening. Patriots we will rise up and keep America great.

Now to break the bad news to you. Just like every other scam over the last 3 plus years this will not end well for the radical liberal left. Every time you fools think “we got him now ” President Trump comes out stronger while you idiots have egg on your face.

Keep America Great!
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OMG!!!!!!!!!

Every single one of the things you listed are flat out lies!!!!!!

You can’t back any of it up. The best you would be able to do is grab a story related to the topic, then greatly distort it so that it slightly resembles the garbage you spew.
You’re sick.
 
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#23,580
#23,580
Stew Cook said:
Well, Trump said Cuomo didn't need them. maybe he should seize Cuomo's shipments of ventilators coming in from other places and put them in a central warehouse.
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Well, if he did that, I'd actually side with you on Trump doing something wrong, but since he hasn't...

And good on Cuomo if he has ventilators coming in from other places. Imagine that, a governor doing what he was elected to do, take care of his state's needs. Novel concept in these times.
 
#23,582
#23,582
Stew Cook said:
Sure, that's another perspective.. but these things stack pretty well on a transport plane/chopper. Remember those "heroic" Coast Guard guys dropping off those test kits on the cruise ship. I'm sure we would see more of this heroism, with the expediency.
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yes - 5 days was a conservative estimate.
 
#23,584
#23,584
NCFisher said:
I disagree; that's terrible supply management and terribly unfair. The potential life that may need a ventilator in Birmingham, Tulsa, or Casper is just as important as the potential life in NY. Let's say we transfer them to NY, and within two weeks they're using them all. Do you unplug Joe Brooklyn and equitably distribute to Susie Birmingham when she gets sick? That won't happen. Therefore, you made the decision prior that potential NY lives were more important than potential AL lives.

Okay, bad example since any lives are worth more than Bama lives, but you get the point.
You establish usage thresholds for determining when to reallocate resources. You absolutely don't give NY all the toys and stiff LA, for example.
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If you have 100,000 ventilators in a federal stockpile and NY needs 10,000 more today, I’m saying you send them 10,000. You don’t only send them 2,000 and tell them to let people die because that’s their share of the US population (2.3%) so that’s all they get. Unless other places need them now. Most of the country is far behind NYC - you don’t hold 98% in reserve because of supply chain theory if you know that the need won’t be everywhere else right away.

My point in summary is that if NY needs them now you send them. You don’t stockpile elsewhere for the 3+ week scenario down the road so that everyone gets their equitable distribution. You save lives now. This is particularly true as we expect more and more to come available as manufacturers ramp up.

I can’t imagine the opposite - a scenario of letting people die in NY because we want to keep the rest of the nation’s stock that they don’t need for some time or might not need ever in storage?
 
#23,586
#23,586
#23,587
#23,587
VolStrom said:
Once the demand outstrips supply is when the crap is going to hit the fan. How do they decide where to distribute the available ventilators when they don't have enough to ship.
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They will have to distribute equitably. If two thousand are in stock and fifty locales have ten thousand "needs' waiting, each locale will get a representative share based upon their percentage of needs waiting. It's the only way to do it.

I'm not convinced it will come to that.
 
#23,589
#23,589
TennTradition said:
I’m saying that if NY patients get sick first and there aren’t enough ventilators, you give them the ones you have. You don’t let people die now because people might be dying in three weeks in Chicago. If we run out then I think you can make a strong case that those ventilators provided by the government should be appropriated based on a distributed need across the country. I don’t think you take patients off as much as you don’t put new patients on as they become available and you move those ventilators to other areas of need. It’s a horrible thought. I’m hopeful we won’t have to make those decisions.
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And the question becomes, does NY really need them, or does Cuomo just want them there "just in case"? And once he has them, how do you take them back if he's unwilling to give them up? By force?

I get what you're saying, but you're taking a simplistic approach that would only work in an ideal world. In case you haven't noticed, that's not the world we live in.
 
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#23,590
#23,590
volinbham said:
I doubt it will every outstrip supply in this country. There may be geographic issues but given the ramp in production and projections of total needed I think we will have it covered.
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I'm not really all that clear on what the actual supply is. These aren't mailboxes that they can stamp out by the thousands, they are very intricate machines and I'm not sure how many are made in the US anymore. I don't think many people understand that you don't take a factory that used to make seatbelts and in 2 days you're making ventilators. In fact I'd be surprised if they could make these things in less than a month unless they are just assembling parts and then again where do the parts come from.
 
#23,591
#23,591
TennTradition said:
If you have 100,000 ventilators in a federal stockpile and NY needs 10,000 more today, I’m saying you send them 10,000. You don’t only send them 2,000 and tell them to let people die because that’s their share of the US population (2.3%) so that’s all they get. Unless other places need them now. Most of the country is far behind NYC - you don’t hold 98% in reserve because of supply chain theory if you know that the need won’t be everywhere else right away.

My point in summary is that if NY needs them now you send them. You don’t stockpile elsewhere for the 3+ week scenario down the road so that everyone gets their equitable distribution. You save lives now. This is particularly true as we expect more and more to come available as manufacturers ramp up.

I can’t imagine the opposite - a scenario of letting people die in NY because we want to keep the rest of the nation’s stock that they don’t need for some time or might not need ever in storage?
Click to expand...

I wonder what mortality rates are when there are ventilators available vs when they are maxed out and those in need go without. Is that why Italy's deaths are so high?
 
#23,592
#23,592
volinbham said:
I get what TT is saying that you don't allocate by population, you allocate by need.

That said, even the hottest of hotspots is sitting on thousands of unused vents at this time. Given it might take 5 days max to transport them there's no need at this time to pull from the national reserve to send to NY.

They currently have more in storage (in NY) then they are using. In other words they have vent capacity 3 to 4 times the current need now. They may end up needing more but there is time to get them there if that appears likely.
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I agree. No reason to way over-supply them. I think you need to get extra ventilators to NYC, Detroit and NOLA now. Maybe LA but they seem to be trending better. You stage ready to distribute to Chicago, Atlanta, Miami, Philly, etc.
 
#23,594
#23,594
Stew Cook said:
I'll look into it later, as I haven't seen the recent ones. I think some posting here may have more familiarity, maybe they'll chime in.
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He's using the same projections - at least he was today.

I'm questioning when his experts updated said projections. They appear to be inline with the original Imperial model that has since been revised substantially.

IOW it gets to the point of "does he need 30k vents". Trump is right when he says he doesn't (based on some models/projections); Cuomo is right when he says he does (based on different models/projections). It's not black and white that Trump is wrong and Cuomo is right and the latest evidence better supports Trump's contention than Cuomo's.

TL;DR - both Trump and Cuomo are right/wrong depending on which model you use.
 
#23,596
#23,596
evillawyer said:
I wonder what mortality rates are when there are ventilators available vs when they are maxed out and those in need go without. Is that why Italy's deaths are so high?
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As I understand it Italy's rates are high because:

1. Not enough ventilators for the surge they got
2. Lot's of poor health people (smokers, etc)

#1 seems to be the big driver but #2 put higher demand (greater % of people needing them).
 
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