See my secondary post with blasphemy verses as to why I interpret Hebrews 6 as I do.
However, I do believe a person saved can be in God, and for unforeseen life experiences allow Satan into their hearts to the point that they turn and curse God and the Spirit, losing salvation. See the fallen angel that was cast to hell. I think verses on blasphemy pertain to the saved and unsaved alike. however, a person that curses God, yet has not know him in salvation yet, can be saved (see Paul). Because losing salvation pertains to one who has tasted God, yet in turn rejected him. See Paul.
As far as when salvation occurs, many do believe that they first received salvation, then were baptized later as an act of obedience because Jesus was baptized, etc. I'm on the fence on this sort of. If you were baptized for remission of sin and to receive the gift of God as I was also, should it be a stumbling block to me, or a point of contention between us, if you believe you were saved before immersion, and I believe I was saved at immersion when we both completed the full act. (believing, repenting, immersion). Personally, I believe Salvation is a gift bestowed by God upon the realization you need to and respond to it in completion. How can one come to believe and not see the need to be baptized and say they are saved. The whole premise of belief, repentance, and baptism is a complete act of obedience. It cannot be accomplished in part. And every example I find in the NT, says that when people heard and believed, they immediately went down to the water. We this this multiple times. Therefore, I see salvation as a one step process where all realization comes together at one point and you are then baptized. (Mark 16:16, Matt 28:19, John 3:22, Rom 6:3-4). Now concerning receiving the holy Ghost, I find that it was received by believers when they were baptized as well as immediately prior upon believing as they were to be baptized. Again, why I contend that salvation is a process whereas everything falls into a bucket at one time and is not spread out over a sequence of buckets. (Jn 3:15, Acts 2:38, 1Cor 12:13, Mk 1:8, Acts 8:15-17, Titus 3: 5-6, Acts 10:44-47). But, in all instances I see where baptism occurred upon believing and they went into the water, all at that point of convergence.
We will not likely agree on baptism as a requirement and again that’s ok, but it might be because we come from a different place of belief.
It is my contention that people were saved by faith in the exact same way before and after Messiah. We also likely view Torah very differently.
Many seem to think.....and I would say most....that the death, burial and reserection of Messiah ended the law. I find that to be odd as Messiah said that nothing passes from the law till heaven and earth pass away. The line “Messiah fulfilled the law” gets thrown around a lot but that’s what Jesus/Yeshua said he was here to do. He immediately clarified that it wouldn’t mean it’s end.
The way most Christians believe seems odd to me
For example if you (someone) committed a crime and was convicted. Then they were told someone else has paid your penalty and you are free to go. Those people then leave but on their way out are told “oh, by the way...it’s not a crime anymore so feel free to do it again”. I know that’s not exciting how most view what happened but for some reason everyone seems to think that the rules/definition of sin has changed and I see no support for such a concept. On the contrary Paul, James John and others address the law as being the definition of sin. Yet none say that it’s over.
even Paul is clear that it’s the punishment that’s done away with.
Romans 8.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
vs 1 ...no condemnation for those in Union with Messiah.
Vs 1 and 3 we are weak and carnal without Messiah. With Messiah we are of the spirit.
Vs7. Those carnal can’t submit themselves to the law of G-d.
once again I tell you all that ^^^^^^to say this.
it’s my contention that baptism is a part of Torah. In Torah it’s a method for new beginnings. John baptised in the desert after people repented and even baptized Messiah as Messiah began his ministry. Baptism is absolutely the first step of the believer but it’s just that. The first step. But like the rest of the things you do in service of G-d it doesn’t save you (generally, not you specifically) in my opinion
like I said not likely to agree but that’s ok