The Atlanta Braves

#67,351
#67,351
If Bud Selig gets to be in the HOF, then any steroid user gets to be in too
 
#67,354
#67,354
vols 30 said:
Maybe,

But, maybe the greatest player wasn't from his time ?

Maybe it's Trout.
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If Mike Trout starts putting up seasons where he’s 200 points better than the second guy in OPS for four straight years I will gladly listen to that debate.
 
#67,355
#67,355
From 2001-2004 Barry Bonds’ wRC+ was 232. Albert Pujols was second at 166. Pujols was just as close to league average as he was to Barry Bonds.
 
#67,357
#67,357
zjcvols said:
If Mike Trout starts putting up seasons where he’s 200 points better than the second guy in OPS for four straight years I will gladly listen to that debate.
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Knowing Bonds juiced up ends any comparison with me. I just can't get passed it. Same with Clemons. Just my opinion.

Bonds was a terrific player with Pittsburgh. He almost was a Brave at one time
 
#67,358
#67,358
GAVol said:
They’re very similar. Basically the same OPS and AVG- Aaron with more pop.
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Mays was also a super duper elite CF while Aaron was a solid corner OF. I mean I’m not going to try and guess the difference in defense for guys I never watched play, but just based on what I’ve read even if Aaron was slightly better offensively Mays makes up for his defense.
 
#67,359
#67,359
What’s more impressive... Bonds’ 162 WAR aided by PEDs or Ruth’s 162 WAR aided by Yankee Stadium and segregation?
 
#67,360
#67,360
zjcvols said:
Mays was also a super duper elite CF while Aaron was a solid corner OF. I mean I’m not going to try and guess the difference in defense for guys I never watched play, but just based on what I’ve read even if Aaron was slightly better offensively Mays makes up for his defense.
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The joke is that the difference between Mays and Aaron’s defense was that all the plays got made but Mays’ hat flew off.
 
#67,361
#67,361
vols 30 said:
Knowing Bonds juiced up ends any comparison with me. I just can't get passed it. Same with Clemons. Just my opinion.

Bonds was a terrific player with Pittsburgh. He almost was a Brave at one time
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Hank Aaron and Willie Mays both played on greenies and admitted it helped them perform better as ball players. They just didn’t have the technology at the time.
 
#67,362
#67,362
zjcvols said:
Mays was also a super duper elite CF while Aaron was a solid corner OF. I mean I’m not going to try and guess the difference in defense for guys I never watched play, but just based on what I’ve read even if Aaron was slightly better offensively Mays makes up for his defense.
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Mays might be the best player ever.
 
#67,363
#67,363
GAVol said:
What’s more impressive... Bonds’ 162 WAR aided by PEDs or Ruth’s 162 WAR aided by Yankee Stadium and segregation?
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Bonds by far. Ruth also played where nobody threw over 85 MPH lol. But that’s not exactly fair to Ruth in his defense.

It’s like trying to judge Russell/Chamberlain with the NBA greats, it’s basically impossible because of the physical advantages they had.
 
#67,366
#67,366
zjcvols said:
Bonds by far. Ruth also played where nobody threw over 85 MPH lol. But that’s not exactly fair to Ruth in his defense.

It’s like trying to judge Russell/Chamberlain with the NBA greats, it’s basically impossible because of the physical advantages they had.
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Just look at babe ruth. Greatest ever at what? Not dying of a heart attack while playing a professional sport?
 
#67,367
#67,367
Imagine if Barry actually got to swing the bat. He would have hit 1000

Imagine if he played in philly, STP or yankee stadium.

Ludicrous!
 
#67,369
#67,369
zjcvols said:
Bonds by far. Ruth also played where nobody threw over 85 MPH lol. But that’s not exactly fair to Ruth in his defense.

It’s like trying to judge Russell/Chamberlain with the NBA greats, it’s basically impossible because of the physical advantages they had.
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Only reason I asked is I just happened to notice the WAR was the same.
 
#67,370
#67,370
TBrown said:
Imagine if Barry actually got to swing the bat. He would have hit 1000

Imagine if he played in philly, STP or yankee stadium.

Ludicrous!
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What’s crazy is I think Bonds has something like 400 more BBs than #2 on the all time list.
 
#67,372
#67,372
TBrown said:
Lower OPS than former great Carlos Delgado. Sad!
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Don’t think anybody has heard of the OBP part of the equation before about 1980 lol.

Aaron must have outslugged him by a ton.

Edit: He really didn’t. Just 10-15 points. Nuts to outhomer him by 300, but slug within 15 points. Looking at his career, it’s pretty obvious Hank should’ve retired after he broke the record. The last 1000 ABs or so are kind of sad. OPS was basically .680
 
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#67,373
#67,373
TBrown said:
That’s the case of why he should be in the HoF regardless of your stance on PEDs.

The case for him being the 🐐 are the numbers. They exist in black and white as stone cold fact.
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I don't give a crap who's in the HOF anymore, so I don't care if they put him in or not. I don't disagree with you about the numbers except insofar that if you're unwilling to admit that they're tainted, then you're more or less setting in stone forever that Bonds was the greatest player who ever will be. And that seems like BS because Mike Trout, who really is the best player who's ever lived, is already more than 20 WAR ahead of Bonds at the same age but has zero chance to put up the same numbers, since unless everybody goes back to juicing again there's no way Trout is going to put up 50 WAR (hahaha) after the age of 35 like Bonds did.
 
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#67,374
Vercingetorix said:
I don't give a crap who's in the HOF anymore, so I don't care if they put him in or not. I don't disagree with you about the numbers except insofar that if you're unwilling to admit that they're tainted, then you're more or less setting in stone forever that Bonds was the greatest player who ever will be. And that seems like BS because Mike Trout, who really is the best player who's ever lived, is already more than 20 WAR ahead of Bonds at the same age but has zero chance to put up the same numbers, since unless everybody goes back to juicing again there's no way Trout is going to put up 50 WAR (hahaha) after the age of 35 like Bonds did.
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Well if we keep the juiced ball he might have a chance lol
 
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