2020 qb comparison/talk/debate (merged)

[krichunaka]

12th in the SEC in rushing yards and last in rushing TDs indicates there are other pressing issues. Got to help whoever is playing QB a little by getting closer to 5 yards per attempt. The last 3 years have been sad up front and until we fix that, great QB play will only get us so far.

Agree. But, playing in Front of the defense, because of lack of confidence by the quarterback, or by the coaches' lack of confidence in that quarterback, to get the ball downfield, and especially across the middle of the field ...allows the linebackers (and, all too often, even Safeties) to hover right up next to the line of scrimmage, and guess what, no running game.
It got somewhat better later in the season, but admittedly against much weaker competition. And, the Missouri defense that we saw this season, at that point in the season, is a poor example of a "Great Defense."
With due respect to the controversial UT quarterback, or whichever one of them emerges next fall, we will know how good, or bad we are, if we see the linebackers start to take "normal" drops into coverage. Because, they FINALLY respect our ability to burn them downfield.

 

[1vol8]

Well you don't know the difference between an accurate and inaccurate qb. Not much of a stretch.

Let me point out that you and I would’ve had this exact argument over Joe Burrow last season. You would’ve claimed him as a qb that lacked accuracy because the “stats” showed he was 54%. I would’ve argued that he was extremely accurate and only needed time in the system to improve decision making. You can’t deny the results of who would’ve been eating crow this year and that is the EXACT argument we are having now over Maurer. So yes..... I know the difference in an accurate qb and an inaccurate one. The question is, do you?

 

[1vol8]

Agree. But, playing in Front of the defense, because of lack of confidence by the quarterback, or by the coaches' lack of confidence in that quarterback, to get the ball downfield, and especially across the middle of the field ...allows the linebackers (and, all too often, even Safeties) to hover right up next to the line of scrimmage, and guess what, no running game.
It got somewhat better later in the season, but admittedly against much weaker competition. And, the Missouri defense that we saw this season, at that point in the season, is a poor example of a "Great Defense."
With due respect to the controversial UT quarterback, or whichever one of them emerges next fall, we will know how good, or bad we are, if we see the linebackers start to take "normal" drops into coverage. Because, they FINALLY respect our ability to burn them downfield.

Quality post

 

[k-town_king]

. Aren’t you the one that doesn’t know the difference in accuracy and decision making because the “stats” show them as one? So in that regard it’s not me.... it’s you. You feel otherwise because you have an opinion and are too stubborn to be taught any more than you THINK you already know.

Nah pal. I have showed you the rate for accuracy and the rate for completion percentage. Both historically low.

 

[k-town_king]

Let me point out that you and I would’ve had this exact argument over Joe Burrow last season. You would’ve claimed him as a qb that lacked accuracy because the “stats” showed he was 54%. I would’ve argued that he was extremely accurate and only needed time in the system to improve decision making. You can’t deny the results of who would’ve been eating crow this year and that is the EXACT argument we are having now over Maurer. So yes..... I know the difference in an accurate qb and an inaccurate one. The question is, do you?

Burrow was 58% with 16 tds and 5 ints. Uncannily similar to what JG did in the same situation as a redshirt Junior.

He wasn't a freshman who was below 50% with a 2 to 5 td int ratio.

If Burrrow is brought up the only comparison is JG. BM was just an inaccurate freshman.

You still can't admit he played like a freshman. No shame in that. He just isn't ready. Doesn't mean he can't be great years from now if he stays at qb.

 

[1vol8]

Nah pal. I have showed you the rate for accuracy and the rate for completion percentage. Both historically low.

No.... you haven’t because you absolutely refuse to acknowledge the difference when he was prepared to play vs when he wasn’t. He was 52%. Simple as that.

 

[k-town_king]

No.... you haven’t because you absolutely refuse to acknowledge the difference when he was prepared to play vs when he wasn’t. He was 52%. Simple as that.

Go back and look. I schooled you like usual about Burrow too. You are welcome.

And no. He was 47% complete. 45.8% accurate

 

[1vol8]

Burrow was 58% with 16 tds and 5 ints. Uncannily similar to what JG did in the same situation as a redshirt Junior.

He wasn't a freshman who was below 50% with a 2 to 5 td int ratio.

If Burrrow is brought up the only comparison is JG. BM was just an inaccurate freshman.

You still can't admit he played like a freshman. No shame in that. He just isn't ready. Doesn't mean he can't be great years from now if he stays at qb.

I have admitted MANY times he played like a freshman. My argument isn’t that he didn’t. It’s that he was a 52% passer when prepared to play vs 25% when he wasn’t along with you putting more stock into his season stats KNOWING he scored 4 times in very limited action. You also refuse to acknowledge those 5 ints could just as easily been 2or 3. Not all ints are created equal. 5 ints doesn’t always mean 5 bad decisions. Sometimes it means someone didn’t do their job on the receiving end. So if you claim BM as inaccurate then you can only think the same about Burrow. See the difference in accuracy vs decision making yet?

 

[rikberry31]

Agree. But, playing in Front of the defense, because of lack of confidence by the quarterback, or by the coaches' lack of confidence in that quarterback, to get the ball downfield, and especially across the middle of the field ...allows the linebackers (and, all too often, even Safeties) to hover right up next to the line of scrimmage, and guess what, no running game.
It got somewhat better later in the season, but admittedly against much weaker competition. And, the Missouri defense that we saw this season, at that point in the season, is a poor example of a "Great Defense."
With due respect to the controversial UT quarterback, or whichever one of them emerges next fall, we will know how good, or bad we are, if we see the linebackers start to take "normal" drops into coverage. Because, they FINALLY respect our ability to burn them downfield.

For most of the season teams were not loading the box against us.

 

[krichunaka]

For most of the season teams were not loading the box against us.

Then I will better-explain: There are times when the linebackers are in their "normal" depths ...BEFORE the ball is snapped, but their very first reaction is to rush forward. Now, this "rush forward" could easily be construed as "reading" the running back, fullback (a somewhat antiquated example), or even the quarterback's hand motion/fakes/play action, whatever ...but, with Tennessee's opponents, it was more an unhesitating, rushing forward, many of them all-out, or delayed blitzes, regardless of play action, etc. ...because they did not respect (and certainly did not fear) our downfield passing game, and especially those intermediate routes.
I am not here to pick on our quarterback. He appeared to take several steps forward as the season progressed. But, it's fair to assert that there were as many steps backward. Granted, we must run the ball better. But (and, Only My Opinion), in today's game, if you can't pass - Down Field - you, by the nature of the game, cannot run.
So, load the box, or not, they were coming! And, apparently everybody in the free world knew this, except for our staff, who never got the memo.

 

[rikberry31]

Then I will better-explain: There are times when the linebackers are in their "normal" depths ...BEFORE the ball is snapped, but their very first reaction is to rush forward. Now, this "rush forward" could easily be construed as "reading" the running back, fullback (a somewhat antiquated example), or even the quarterback's hand motion/fakes/play action, whatever ...but, with Tennessee's opponents, it was more an unhesitating, rushing forward, many of them all-out, or delayed blitzes, regardless of play action, etc. ...because they did not respect (and certainly did not fear) our downfield passing game, and especially those intermediate routes.
I am not here to pick on our quarterback. He appeared to take several steps forward as the season progressed. But, it's fair to assert that there were as many steps backward. Granted, we must run the ball better. But (and, Only My Opinion), in today's game, if you can't pass - Down Field - you, by the nature of the game, cannot run.
So, load the box, or not, they were coming! And, apparently everybody in the free world knew this, except for our staff, who never got the memo.

I disagree. Many of the defensive plays against Tennessee this season (that weren’t obvious running downs) were defending the deeper passing routes. Just going on play calls, it looked to me that most defenses had a greater respect for our explosive capabilities than for our running game or short game.

 

[GAVol]

Agree. But, playing in Front of the defense, because of lack of confidence by the quarterback, or by the coaches' lack of confidence in that quarterback, to get the ball downfield, and especially across the middle of the field ...allows the linebackers (and, all too often, even Safeties) to hover right up next to the line of scrimmage, and guess what, no running game.
It got somewhat better later in the season, but admittedly against much weaker competition. And, the Missouri defense that we saw this season, at that point in the season, is a poor example of a "Great Defense."
With due respect to the controversial UT quarterback, or whichever one of them emerges next fall, we will know how good, or bad we are, if we see the linebackers start to take "normal" drops into coverage. Because, they FINALLY respect our ability to burn them downfield.

There’s definitely an element of truth there; especially early on. But the opposite also occurred at times... we couldn’t get blockers to the second level and defenses knew they could stop the run with just 6 or 7 and play coverage.

 

[k-town_king]

I have admitted MANY times he played like a freshman. My argument isn’t that he didn’t. It’s that he was a 52% passer when prepared to play vs 25% when he wasn’t along with you putting more stock into his season stats KNOWING he scored 4 times in very limited action. You also refuse to acknowledge those 5 ints could just as easily been 2or 3. Not all ints are created equal. 5 ints doesn’t always mean 5 bad decisions. Sometimes it means someone didn’t do their job on the receiving end. So if you claim BM as inaccurate then you can only think the same about Burrow. See the difference in accuracy vs decision making yet?

Why would I claim Burrow was inaccurate like BM? He wasn't. Even in his down year he was about as accurate as JG this year. I think both are way more accurate than what BM did.

45% accurate passing and 47% completion to 58% and 59% for Burrow last year and JG this year.

JB and JG both accurate. BM below 50% and inaccurate.

It is literally a fact that cannot be disputed.

And if he is getting credit for throwing his two TDs in what you deem "very limited action" then he needs to get even more doubts due to the extremely high number of turnovers in "very limited action."

 

[CR-vol]

We will see tomorrow night, if we don't put up 40 points we still have a long ways to go. Tomorrow night will give us a glimpse of what we wil look like next year with jg as qb. I hope its good.

I defend JG but if we haven't seen that all year it ain't likely we're gonna see it tonight. Next season who knows.

 

[krichunaka]

I disagree. Many of the defensive plays against Tennessee this season (that weren’t obvious running downs) were defending the deeper passing routes. Just going on play calls, it looked to me that most defenses had a greater respect for our explosive capabilities than for our running game or short game.

Fair enough. However, except for bumping/stalling a TE or Slot, you very rarely use Linebackers in defending those "explosive" capabilities. The most likely way linebackers come into such a scenario is via the blitz. I'm not trying to out-coach you, rick. I'm relying solely on what I've seen this past season, and the one previous. A big part of the "deficiency" of our OL was often too many folks to block. It isn't difficult to defend the swing patterns or check downs. In fact, by using those plays too often, which we surely did, the defense has nothing to do but "rush forward."
FWIW: I think our team (and our quarterback) has grown and improved. But until such time as we can consistently drive the linebackers out of the box, or force them to stay put, or even take a step back, we will be limited with our rushing game.
Happy New Year, Rick!

 

[lexkyvol]

Well you don't know the difference between an accurate and inaccurate qb. Not much of a stretch.

EXACTLY! The comment i was referring to was when one of them said wr play isnt much different from the high school level, which is beyond stupid!

 

[lexkyvol]

Are you seriously insinuating that I don’t know the difference in a D-1 vs a D-2 WR? wow

when it comes to football, your whole IQ is in question. especially from reading a lot of your comments

 

[1vol8]

Why would I claim Burrow was inaccurate like BM? He wasn't. Even in his down year he was about as accurate as JG this year. I think both are way more accurate than what BM did.

45% accurate passing and 47% completion to 58% and 59% for Burrow last year and JG this year.

JB and JG both accurate. BM below 50% and inaccurate.

It is literally a fact that cannot be disputed.

And if he is getting credit for throwing his two TDs in what you deem "very limited action" then he needs to get even more doubts due to the extremely high number of turnovers in "very limited action."

52% vs 58% isn’t much of a difference. If Maurer is inaccurate in your eyes this year then your opinion of Burrow last year couldn’t be any different. Stop backpedaling.

 

[1vol8]

when it comes to football, your whole IQ is in question. especially from reading a lot of your comments

Funny YOU have that opinion when Most actually say just the opposite of my football IQ. Even some that don’t like my posting style have at least admitted I’m no dummy. Although I don’t expect to please everyone anyway. You don’t think I know no matter how strong my arguments are that yourself, K town and Pulaski are going to disagree? I’ve known that quite a while now. I just enjoy exposing your bias.

 

[rikberry31]

Fair enough. However, except for bumping/stalling a TE or Slot, you very rarely use Linebackers in defending those "explosive" capabilities. The most likely way linebackers come into such a scenario is via the blitz. I'm not trying to out-coach you, rick. I'm relying solely on what I've seen this past season, and the one previous. A big part of the "deficiency" of our OL was often too many folks to block. It isn't difficult to defend the swing patterns or check downs. In fact, by using those plays too often, which we surely did, the defense has nothing to do but "rush forward."
FWIW: I think our team (and our quarterback) has grown and improved. But until such time as we can consistently drive the linebackers out of the box, or force them to stay put, or even take a step back, we will be limited with our rushing game.
Happy New Year, Rick!

I agree, lots of blitzes no doubt. I feel that JG’s biggest weakness reading pre-snap blitz particularly if they come from the secondary. He missed many hot reads either didn’t see them or missed the throws. We do better in that area, and I believe we would have had monster offensive year.

 

[k-town_king]

52% vs 58% isn’t much of a difference. If Maurer is inaccurate in your eyes this year then your opinion of Burrow last year couldn’t be any different. Stop backpedaling.

He wasn't 52%. He was 47% and even less were actually accurate passes at 45.83% accurate passes thrown.
47% to 58% is a huge difference

 

[whodeycin85]

@lexkyvol. may i ask what position you played in high school and or college?

I myself play tight end and then defensive tackle

 

[1vol8]

He wasn't 52%. He was 47% and even less were actually accurate passes at 45.83% accurate passes thrown.
47% to 58% is a huge difference

I see your bias STILL won’t allow you to admit that actually being PREPARED to play in a game makes a HUGE difference. Why should any players practice at all then K town? If they are just “plug and play” then why not save the energy?

 

[k-town_king]

I see your bias STILL won’t allow you to admit that actually being PREPARED to play in a game makes a HUGE difference. Why should any players practice at all then K town? If they are just “plug and play” then why not save the energy?

So lets just erase the first couple of games from JG this year and Burrow last year to adjust for time to be comfortable in a new offense. Then BM looks even worse once again.

 

[1vol8]

So lets just erase the first couple of games from JG this year and Burrow last year to adjust for time to be comfortable in a new offense. Then BM looks even worse once again.

Why would you think that would even give you hint of an argument? JG was prepared to play in those games. He lit it up in practice and that’s when everyone was hearing Pruitt publicly criticizing Maurer and Shrout. Bottom line is practice didn’t translate to the game. That is a completely ridiculous attempt. Try again