The Impeachment Thread

#21,726
#21,726
Holmes painting quite the unpleasant portrait of Trump.
I loved the part about Trump saying "play the race card", I know Trumpers love the race card.
 
#21,727
#21,727
W.TN.Orange Blood said:
What the hell is this dude...Holmes......even talking about that everyone has yawned at now for 20 minutes ?
Is he giving us a History lesson from the day he was born & has moved up to his adult years ?
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His testimony is only I may have overheard a call at a nearby table...so I guess he is making sure he gets his face time
 
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#21,729
#21,729
RockyTop85 said:
Monmouth Poll: 62% of Trump Supporters Say Nothing He Does Will Sway Them
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I wonder if they ever conducted a similar poll when Clinton was impeached? It's insane how people will support someone no matter what. Even today there are people who defend Bill, even though he admitted to his crimes. It amazes me that some of those same people call out Trump supporters for their rabid support of Trump while at the same time dismissing the notion that Clinton should have been removed from office. One of the reasons I despise politics so much, people feel it's wrong only when the other side does it.

I don't believe in or support blind loyalty to a politician or a political party, but both sides are guilty of it. It always amazes me the hypocrisy that occurs when one side starts calling out the other side for it. The desire for truth and facts is quickly forgotten when one of their own comes under fire.
 
#21,732
#21,732
Weezer said:
I wonder if they ever conducted a similar poll when Clinton was impeached? It's insane how people will support someone no matter what. Even today there are people who defend Bill, even though he admitted to his crimes. It amazes me that some of those same people call out Trump supporters for their rabid support of Trump while at the same time dismissing the notion that Clinton should have been removed from office. One of the reasons I despise politics so much, people feel it's wrong only when the other side does it.

I don't believe in or support blind loyalty to a politician or a political party, but both sides are guilty of it. It always amazes me the hypocrisy that occurs when one side starts calling out the other side for it. The desire for truth and facts is quickly forgotten when one of their own comes under fire.
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I think there were polls and the Dems used them to fight it...that was back during the Dick Morris days
 
#21,734
#21,734
tvolsfan said:
Some of these halfwits actually think Trump was sent by God.
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I don’t care about that.

My point is that the progressive left sees the government as a substitute for religion, at this point. Government will provide for our education and our wellbeing and the government is responsible for our monetary needs etc... and the government, through the law, is the ultimate arbiter of right and wrong. And the government can do all of these things because the government is apparently infallible. It’s essentially a religious system.

The right, by promoting individual liberty, personal responsibility, and a morality derived from religion has generally pushed back on that and the resulting tension kept either side from getting too far in the weeds.

However, since the arrival of Donald Trump, the right has basically abandoned and begun to scoff at moral arguments and has retreated to the same moral position as the left: if an act is legal, it must be acceptable.
 
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#21,736
#21,736
RockyTop85 said:
I don’t care about that.

My point is that the progressive left sees the government as a substitute for religion, at this point. Government will provide for our education and our wellbeing and the government is responsible for our monetary needs etc... and the government, through the law, is the ultimate arbiter of right and wrong. And the government can do all of these things because the government is apparently infallible. It’s essentially a religious system.

The right, by promoting individual liberty, personal responsibility, and a morality derived from religion has generally pushed back on that and the resulting tension kept either side from getting too far in the weeds.

However, since the arrival of Donald Trump, the right has basically abandoned and begun to scoff at moral arguments and has retreated to the same moral position as the left: if an act is legal, it must be acceptable.
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Agreed, except for the bold. When it comes to Trump, it doesn’t matter whether or not it is legal.
 
#21,740
#21,740
Septic said:
I think it makes a shtty president look guilty and I think he'd rather look guilty than be found guilty. Congress has subpoena power and has the tools to enforce it, they're simply choosing not to do it because it takes time.

I absolutely think trump is unfit for the presidency, long before this - the only problem I have with trumps actions is that he was using taxpayer dollars to dig up dirt on a political rival. That's what dictators do. I don't think that's an impeachable offense. Scummy and unbecoming of the presidency, yes. Worth firing for, no.
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This is one of the most reasonable and rational thoughts you've expressed in quite a while (IMO. Yours will differ, lol). And as a centrist, moderate conservative republican, or however you phrase it, that wouldn't share too many agreements with you, this would be one of them that I would agree upon.

Having said that, the objection to this meddling should have applied unilaterally to all the Dem DC'ers that were absolutely engaged in the exact same conduct in digging up dirt and colluding with Russia and Ukraine to aid in an election bid against Trump. That did not receive the same fever pitch objection as it is with Trump. Furthermore, a president no one has yet to say under oath did anything wrong. I have stated previously I have no issues playing on a level field. I totally object to no balls rolling into "left" field.

I would differ somewhat in that he's not a bad president per se. He has accomplished quite a bit, and without bipartisan support. He has had to try and prove his worth while dodging Dem fire bombs from the get go. I totally agree that this all started the moment he got elected. The Dems have established no credibility in being able to say they tried to work with Trump, then went after him. Not speaking of his character (not fair considering the character of the others), just his job, and he has performed better in that regard than several predecessors. Whether you want to admit it or not he has. And if he wasn't producing I would absolutely be in the front of the line to say he has failed in his job duties. And I can prove that cause I was very open about saying he screwed the pooch on pulling out of Syria the way he did. Did we need to pull out? Maybe. But, not the way he planned it. He is a strange man, and should not be allowed to have social media accounts, but he is not afraid to do his job, make decisions, or step on toes.

The democratic approach to ousting Trump was never well thought out. There is a general lack of intelligence in that group that is targeting him, and the party liners that have a noggin and have to play along just step into place. They could have taken a bipartisan approach with Trump and let him elect himself out of office in 2020 and he probably would have. Instead they kept fueling the defiance that got him there in the first place, and played properly, he would have faired out decently as a president and still lost his second term. And they would have looked good. As is, Pelosi and Schiff and crew have done some pretty deep damage.
 
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#21,744
#21,744
RockyTop85 said:
That’s fair. I agree with most of what you’ve said.

I think the bribery statute thing is a stretch because it requires too broad an application of that statute, and would unreasonably hamper future presidents. But add the element that the exploitation of the office for personal gain was at the expense of the national interest and it fits the bill for removal.

I can’t conceptualize an impeachable offense if that isn’t it.
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It seems to me better characterized as extortion rather than bribery.
 
#21,746
#21,746
Septic said:
All public officials should be held to the same standard. They can all break rocks for all I care.
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I don't disagree but it's blatantly obvious that if there is an R beside the name your burden of proof is substantially lower and and your level of outrage is substantially higher than when there is a D beside their name. If it pertains to Trump, then presumption of innocence is out the window.
 
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#21,749
#21,749
NorthDallas40 said:
And you can thank the cry wolf narrative that has been continual since Nov 2016 for that. To quote Luther “it’s completely reasonable and rational”😂
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What??
Trump said exactly that before he was even elected.
I can shoot someone in the middle of Times Square and my followers would still worship me.
It has little to do with the cry wolf narrative.
It has everything to do with gaslighting and division. The two pillars on which Trump's success is built.
 
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