2020 Presidential Race

#19,252
#19,252
Weezer said:
Why does it make him unelectable?
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vfh already answered, but I would add that a lot of religious folks, and older people , and people in the South won't vote for him either. Pete picked a fight with Pence and the religious crowd back in the Spring. He can't be elected. He also strikes me as a know it all elitist and a phony with a thin resume. He has an answer for everything, and strikes me as a focus group driven candidate.
 
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#19,253
#19,253
615vols said:
Lol I’m not clicking that sh**. There’s nothing phony about what I posted. You are either born male or female. That’s a fact, your feelings don’t matter.
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While not common, there are many ambiguous circumstances in how we classify gender. One prominent example would be an individual who has all the physical characteristics and external genitalia of a woman and fails to become pregnant. The doctor diagnoses possible reasons for a lack of fertility to discover that the apparent female is actually an XY male despite appearance. The reason being the patient has something called androgen insensitivity syndrome, meaning that despite having an XY DNA makeup, they lack the ability to physiologically respond to male hormones, and as a result they look like a female and have female genitalia. But they are XY, cannot reproduce, and lack a uterus.

So I ask this first question. Do we define this person has a male, or do we define them as a female?

Now let’s say that this patient happened to be your “daughter”, does your answer to the question change?
 
#19,254
#19,254
1972 Grad said:
vfh already answered, but I would add that a lot of religious folks, and older people , and people in the South won't vote for him either. Pete picked a fight with Pence and the religious crowd back in the Spring. He can't be elected. He also strikes me as a know it all elitist and a phony with a thin resume. He has an answer for everything, and strikes me as a focus group driven candidate.
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I have nothing against opposing someone over politics or even personality to a degree, I just don't support dismissing a candidate completely simply because they are gay. Being gay does not make one a bad person.
 
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#19,255
#19,255
1972 Grad said:
vfh already answered, but I would add that a lot of religious folks, and older people , and people in the South won't vote for him either. Pete picked a fight with Pence and the religious crowd back in the Spring. He can't be elected. He also strikes me as a know it all elitist and a phony with a thin resume. He has an answer for everything, and strikes me as a focus group driven candidate.
Click to expand...

What makes somebody an elitist, in your opinion? You use that a lot.
 
#19,256
#19,256
RockyTop85 said:
What makes somebody an elitist, in your opinion? You use that a lot.
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He gives off an air of superiority to me. Like he thinks he is smarter (and he is smart) and better than everyone else. It's hard to quantify it. I just get a sense from certain people. I couldn't see him fitting in with a room full of steel workers or baseball players or football fans (everyday people) for instance. Maybe I could see him as a college professor type, where he could lecture everyone. Biden does not give off the same vibe, nor does Kamala Harris for example. He just doesn't seem like one of us. He looks like he would eat a hot dog with a knife and fork.
 
#19,257
#19,257
Weezer said:
I have nothing against opposing someone over politics or even personality to a degree, I just don't support dismissing a candidate completely simply because they are gay. Being gay does not make one a bad person.
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I don't believe anybody said he was a bad person.
 
#19,258
#19,258
1972 Grad said:
He gives off an air of superiority to me. Like he thinks he is smarter (and he is smart) and better than everyone else. It's hard to quantify it. I just get a sense from certain people. I couldn't see him fitting in with a room full of steel workers or baseball players or football fans (everyday people) for instance. Maybe I could see him as a college professor type, where he could lecture everyone. Biden does not give off the same vibe, nor does Kamala Harris for example. He just doesn't seem like one of us. He looks like he would eat a hot dog with a knife and fork.
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Growing up, my dad's description of people who made him feel similar was " he must think his **** don't stink". lol
 
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#19,259
#19,259
Weezer said:
Growing up, my dad's description of people who made him feel similar was " he must think his **** don't stink". lol
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That's better than what I had. Like I said, it's hard to quantify, but I know it when I see it. He reminds me of a sheltered child who went to private schools. He reminds me of a gay Al Gore or John Kerry. Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, Lyndon Johnson, and Hubert Humphrey were not like that at all.
 
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#19,261
#19,261
RockyTop85 said:
As to the first one: Potentially. I don’t feel particularly put upon by learning that if I illegally murder or beat a gay man it might be a hate crime.

The civil rights act is what makes it illegal to refuse to serve a protected class. I suppose there’s more of a beef there, but it’s still equal treatment since the civil rights act just outlaws bases for discrimination. It doesn’t say you can’t discriminate against black people, it says you can’t discriminate on the basis of race, so it just enforces treating everyone equally. You’d still have the religious basis to refuse to serve as that’s not recognized under the 1A and the civil rights act cannot countermand that.

Don’t know enough about the last two to comment on that.
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As others have said, all crimes are hate crimes. Why does someone face a worse punishment for attacking one person over another? Creates a second class citizen and plays favorites. The government shouldnt be doing that.

Why is there a protected class? Why is some discrimination ok but others arent? Even avoiding the religious issue. Seems like a distinction without difference. Thank God for gingers right? People we can still discriminate openly against. Each business should be free to do business with whoever they want. only thing I can see as valid is requiring them to post their biases at the door. Complete freedom of association.
 
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#19,262
#19,262
Persian Vol said:
While not common, there are many ambiguous circumstances in how we classify gender. One prominent example would be an individual who has all the physical characteristics and external genitalia of a woman and fails to become pregnant. The doctor diagnoses possible reasons for a lack of fertility to discover that the apparent female is actually an XY male despite appearance. The reason being the patient has something called androgen insensitivity syndrome, meaning that despite having an XY DNA makeup, they lack the ability to physiologically respond to male hormones, and as a result they look like a female and have female genitalia. But they are XY, cannot reproduce, and lack a uterus.

So I ask this first question. Do we define this person has a male, or do we define them as a female?

Now let’s say that this patient happened to be your “daughter”, does your answer to the question change?
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Many as in what, less than 1000 documented cases the world over?
 
#19,267
#19,267
LouderVol said:
As others have said, all crimes are hate crimes. Why does someone face a worse punishment for attacking one person over another? Creates a second class citizen and plays favorites. The government shouldnt be doing that.

Why is there a protected class? Why is some discrimination ok but others arent? Even avoiding the religious issue. Seems like a distinction without difference. Thank God for gingers right? People we can still discriminate openly against. Each business should be free to do business with whoever they want. only thing I can see as valid is requiring them to post their biases at the door. Complete freedom of association.
Click to expand...

This has the same fundamental flaw as the post I was responding to in the post you quoted.

Hate crime laws punish crimes motivated by demographic feature (I.e. race, gender, religion), they don’t distinguish between classes within those features (black, white, male, female, etc.) and would be subject to strict scrutiny under the equal protection clause, if they did.

So, to the extent they create lesser classes, we’re both part of the lesser class since we have a race, gender, nationality, and religious belief).

Hate crimes are rarely charged and even less frequently convicted. They’re largely just symbolic of the fact that we as a society have determined not to approve of discrimination.

If you’re seriously questioning the reason for their existence, I’d simply refer you to the whole of human history and the first 188 years of American history... if you've got an example of a civilization that, left to their own devices, formed a non-discriminatory pluralistic society, I’d be interested to read up on it.

As with affirmative action, I agree with criticisms about the efficacy and there is some interesting commentary (that I haven’t touched since law school) about the unintended consequences of legally enforced equal protection, but I don’t agree with your arguments.
 
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#19,268
#19,268
LouderVol said:
Many as in what, less than 1000 documented cases the world over?
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Many different diseases could cause gender ambiguity. I provided one specific one, androgen insensitivity syndrome. The prevalence is about 1 in 20,000-50,000 births. So roughly 6000-16000 cases in America.
 
#19,270
#19,270
RockyTop85 said:
This has the same fundamental flaw as the post I was responding to in the post you quoted.

Hate crime laws punish crimes motivated by demographic feature (I.e. race, gender, religion), they don’t distinguish between classes within those features (black, white, male, female, etc.) and would be subject to strict scrutiny under the equal protection clause, if they did.

So, to the extent they create lesser classes, we’re both part of the lesser class since we have a race, gender, nationality, and religious belief).

Hate crimes are rarely charged and even less frequently convicted. They’re largely just symbolic of the fact that we as a society have determined not to approve of discrimination.

If you’re seriously questioning the reason for their existence, I’d simply refer you to the whole of human history and the first 188 years of American history... if you've got an example of a civilization that, left to their own devices, formed a non-discriminatory pluralistic society, I’d be interested to read up on it.

As with affirmative action, I agree with criticisms about the efficacy and there is some interesting commentary (that I haven’t touched since law school) about the unintended consequences of legally enforced equal protection, but I don’t agree with your arguments.
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If the few cases that have gone threw I am willing to bet, with no real evidence to support, that those charged have largely been white. And that there probably hasnt been a straight white (male) victim.

It's one thing for the law to be there to protect everyone from any discrimination. But the application, admitted to my confirmation bias, has been fairly targeted. Let me put it this way, when the laws got passed, I very much doubt they were intended for everyone. And I think that is wrong.

An assault is an assault. No matter their skin color, gender, sexual preference, or what they had for lunch. People are crap to each other. The differences dont really matter, they are an excuse, not a cause. Look at history, you can find more evidence of "self crime" than hate crimes. It's not something special.
 
#19,271
#19,271
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