Recruiting Forum Football Talk II

[jave36]

Based on what? 2017 Florida was 4-7, 2017 Vols were 4-8. Recruiting at Florida under McElwain was an average class rating of 14.7, Recruiting at Tennessee under Butch was an average class rating of 11.7 during the same period.

Ya I was going yo say, how was UF situation that much better than UT 2 years ago? They said "screw stability we're going to can coaches we don't think are cutting it" and it doesn't seem to be hurting them. They even tried to screw Mac out of his buyout, which should have really scared off coaching prospects much more than firing coaches too soon that we claim scares off potential coaches.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

And in the two years prior to 2017, UF won the East. As for recruiting records, go back and see how many recruits panned out for those classes. Rankings mean very little in hindsight when you can look back and see which players actually succeeded.

What means very little is to have people dismiss Mullen's success because of the high level of player talent he got while in the same breathe dismiss Pruitt's failure because he still needs to flip the roster. I mean come on now?

4-7 to 10-4 from a coach who built Miss. State from nothing in the SEC West, during the Les Miles/Gus/Saban era. But he wasn't a better hire than Pruitt, with zero HC experience?

Please. I want Pruitt to figure it out and be elite, but he wasn't the best option when we hired him.

 

[Kingston Vol]

And in the two years prior to 2017, UF won the East. As for recruiting records, go back and see how many recruits panned out for those classes. Rankings mean very little in hindsight when you can look back and see which players actually succeeded.

Recruiting ranking is the only barometer we can use to measure talent before it has been touched by x program. How many of our talented prospects didn’t amount to **** because they got bad coaching when they arrived on campus? I’d say a ton. And that pattern has not stopped yet.

 

[barrylee]

Haha, breaks are a good thing imo. I've had a steady diet the last couple of weeks and it definitely gives perspective.

The "mob" is keeping each other worked up. Just popping in, I've seen people that are absolute known pot stirrers and trolls getting likes from what used to be rational posters and insider questions being asked to people that absolutely shouldn't be being asked.

Frustration is the catalyst but there's a definite case of the inmates running the asylum. Yep, breaks are a good thing.

I know who ur talking about. Lol. I'm guilty..

 

[Dooby15]

Blaming the QB and the roster is semi-warranted. But the roster and QB are better than the QBs and rosters at BYU, GSU and Vandy. We’re underachieving and throwing it all on the QB is a convenient way to play a little slide of hand with the real issue.

I don’t know.... the BYU QB can hit wide open targets.

 

[jave36]

What means very little is to have people dismiss Mullen's success because of the high level of player talent he got while in the same breathe dismiss Pruitt's failure because he still needs to flip the roster. I mean come on now?

4-7 to 10-4 from a coach who built Miss. State from nothing in the SEC West, during the Les Miles/Gus/Saban era. But he wasn't a better hire than Pruitt, with zero HC experience?

Please. I want Pruitt to figure it out and be elite, but he wasn't the best option when we hired him.

I desperately wanted Mullen. He was my top candidate. Bronco and Brohm were the next two on my list. I feel like a halfway competent administration could have gotten one of those three and we'd be in a much better place now.

 

[Catbone]

Firing Pruitt this year would be completely stupid. You will not get a better coach and staff...there is zero to gain from it. If you do, you better get used to 2-10 seasons because that will be our spot for a long while.

We could absolutely get a better HC. Wouldn't be hard to find. I do agree about the staff though for the most part

 

[BeecherVol]

OC is trying to open up the field so we can run. He's calling plays and receivers are getting open. The problem is the QB can't/won't see the field enough to make the correct throws

I know what hes trying to do. 4 games in its evident he cant do it that way with what he has. BYU and UF have both demonstrated that. Go heavier to the run and throw off of it.

 

[Weezer]

What means very little is to have people dismiss Mullen's success because of the high level of player talent he got while in the same breathe dismiss Pruitt's failure because he still needs to flip the roster. I mean come on now?

4-7 to 10-4 from a coach who built Miss. State from nothing in the SEC West, during the Les Miles/Gus/Saban era. But he wasn't a better hire than Pruitt, with zero HC experience?

Please. I want Pruitt to figure it out and be elite, but he wasn't the best option when we hired him.

Of course Mullen was a better hire. No one said he wasn't. But he also walked into a better situation. I'm not even sure how that's arguable.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

But again. It still falls on Pruitt, we can point at JG...well bench him and leave him sitting.

There's one guy who can make that call and he hasn't.

 

[jave36]

Of course Mullen was a better hire. No one said he wasn't. But he also walked into a better situation. I'm not even sure how that's arguable.

How was his situation significantly better? Franks is every bit as bad as JG. We stack up with them on paper at almost every position. We're in the same division. You really think Mac had that program in a better spot?

 

[Weezer]

Recruiting ranking is the only barometer we can use to measure talent before it has been touched by x program. How many of our talented prospects didn’t amount to **** because they got bad coaching when they arrived on campus? I’d say a ton. And that pattern has not stopped yet.

And a lot of that goes back to Butch. Despite the losses, how many of Pruitt's kids have been shining spots on the field the past two years? Quite a few.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Of course Mullen was a better hire. No one said he wasn't. But he also walked into a better situation. I'm not even sure how that's arguable.

Well it's not

...if you ignore win/loss records, recruiting class rankings, mid-season coach firing (despite 2 SEC Championship appearances), and all the stuff that you can actually prove exist/happened in favor of a perception based on the illogical argument of poor "player mentality" as the only quantifier for "better situation".

 

[Kingston Vol]

And a lot of that goes back to Butch. Despite the losses, how many of Pruitt's kids have been shining spots on the field the past two years? Quite a few.

Any coach hired here will have a handful of new players playing well after two recruiting classes.

 

[Catbone]

Of course Mullen was a better hire. No one said he wasn't.

Lots.. and I mean LOOOOTS of people said otherwise

 

[Kingston Vol]

Lots.. and I mean LOOOOTS of people said otherwise

As recently as last week people were saying it.

 

[smokeyz1]

Based on what? 2017 Florida was 4-7, 2017 Vols were 4-8. Recruiting at Florida under McElwain was an average class rating of 14.7, Recruiting at Tennessee under Butch was an average class rating of 11.7 during the same period.

Mullen would have been our coach if UF didn't miss out on its top couple choices. So once UF offered the job to Mullen, he took about 5 seconds to figure out UF was a much better coaching situation than UT.

 

[Rishvol]

Mentality can't be quantified so I guess that's an easy out. Mullen could just be a damn good HC and out performing someone who has never done the job before, but nah let's dismiss that point. The one with historical statistical data to support it...

Dan Mullen is a lot of things, but a bad HC isn't one of them. Pruitt is at this point not even average as a HC, unfortunately. Being aware of this and even pointing it out isn't just being pessimistic. Until he starts winning he's not proven anything as a Head Coach.

You've obviously never had to deal with kids who have had a different coach than you. The way you coach. How you make the drill. How you teach them. Everything is different than their last coach. But their last couch was laid back and didn't have them do a lot. They found that enjoyable because they didn't have to work hard. Doesn't matter that it reflected on the field they enjoyed not doing a lot.

Then you come in and make them work. You care about their technique and want them to win. So you have them work harder than the last coach. The majority of athletes hate that they have to work so hard. Hate that they have to be diligent in their technique. Hate that they need to learn everything about each play in the playbook. They decide enough is enough. It doesn't matter that they look better on the field it's not what they want to do. So what do they do? They purposefully slack off and give up because that's what they want to do. They don't want it to be hard they want it to be easy.

I understand the situation that Pruitt is in because I've been in his shoes and have helped coaches in his shoes. Granted it was at the HS level but the results are the same. Parents like Kingston come in and scream for the new HC to be fired and replaced. Most of the time the old HC comes back and the team gets what they want. Easy lackadaisical practices with nothing but losing results. But that's ok to them because they got what they wanted.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

There is nothing that can prove (outside opinion/perception) Florida was a "better" situation to walk into...that's all I'm saying. Trying to frame Mullen's success as such is a disservice to the fact he's a great Head Coach that if he was legit on our list should have been the guy.

 

[Catbone]

As recently as last week people were saying it.

Mullen the QB guru, along with 80-90% of the the staff we have currently would be quite the upgrade.

 

[Big Gucci Sosa]

Ignont left the team

 

[ChattaTNVol]

No he didn’t but Chaney, like every coordinator, has core philosophies and route concepts. You can tweak but you can’t change.

It’s why i didn’t want Chaney and why i said we wouldn’t make a bowl game if we hire him. Not that he’s bad or anything but what our players strengths and what they showed they could do last year under Helton is the exact opposite of what Chaney likes to run

I think one of the problems with Chaney is people wanted and expected to get the Georgia Chaney not the Arkansas Chaney.

At the risk of offending Charger, who I like, I viewed the Chaney hire as I guess okay. I’ve always thought Chaney was too transparent and predictable but that’s just me. I thought Chaney would likely be an upgrade but not someone I would get excited about.

Chaney was at Arkansas in 2013 and 2014. His offense averaged 16.9 points per game against conference opponents in 2013 and improved to 20.6 points per game against SEC teams in 2014. The razorbacks were winless against SEC opponents in 2013 and won 2 SEC games in 2014. Chaney probably can't work miracles, at least not in the SEC.

Why consider Arkansas and not his time at Georgia. One NFL scout put it this way. We are so far behind Georgia talent-wise that if we look up ahead far into the distance we can just barely make out the color of their jerseys. By the way I think they’re red but don’t quote me on that. If we want Chaney to put up the sort of numbers he did at Georgia we’re going to have the get a hell of a lot closer to the talent level he eventually had to work with when he was there. His success is predicated on having guys that are good enough to win most of their matchups on the merits of their own talent not anything special he has to offer as a coach. jmo.

 

[Weezer]

Lots.. and I mean LOOOOTS of people said otherwise

Never saw it, but then I don't spend as much time in here. UF was willing to spend the money to attract a coach like Mullen. TAMU was willing to spend the money to attract Fisher. UT was willing to spend the money to attract Pruitt. That should speak volumes to people, but they'd rather ignore that and think somehow that would change with a new coaching search, in spite of the massive buyouts that would have to be paid. We're not going to spend the money. We've proven it time and again. People need to realize that.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Ignont left the team

Well we gotta lose 8 to get a full 25 in 2020...this season is kind of a wash, if Pruitt truly things he needs to go young & purge then he better take his shot now. He starts next season 1-3 losing to Charlotte & Furman at home he will without a doubt not be retained.

 

[smokeyz1]

Sure he did. He’s also 100x better as a head coach than Pruitt and takes players he didn’t recruit and makes them better.

Mullen was the top choice for UTs HC if you remember. Yet, we still couldn't hire him since he had a better offer. If Pruitt is fired after 2 seasons, I would be surprised if Fulmer could even get an interview with a "Mullen" level coach.