Mass Shooting in Ohio

#203
#203
ClearwaterVol said:
Is crazy folks voting or owning guns a desirable circumstance? Though I would argue that crazy folks owning guns forms a more immediate and direct threat.
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I would argue that giving up your right to bear arms and your right to vote by having to give up your right to privacy to a government run board that will be the determining factor to you having rights is .... crazy and not rational in any way . Why is it that we keep wanting politicians we argue over not being able to trust and parties that we all know are corrupt to be able to decide how our rights are to be handed to us and what hoops we have to jump through to get those rights ?
 
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#205
#205
0nelilreb said:
I would argue that giving up your right to bear arms and your right to vote by having to give up your right to privacy to a government run board that will be the determining factor to you having rights is .... crazy and not rational in any way . Why is it that we keep wanting politicians we argue over not being able to trust and parties that we all know are corrupt to be able to decide how our rights are to be handed to us and what hoops we have to jump through to get those rights ?
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Because fear is a strong emotion and many will give up freedom to feel safe.
 
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#206
#206
ClearwaterVol said:
So many problems means that none should be addressed?
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No. Lock all crazy people down. ANYONE who has had any mental health issues, aka a visit to a therapist, be it marriage counseling or voices telling them to dress in their moms underwear, cant drive/buy guns/grill out/rent cars/fly./leave the country. That would be fine with me. We would really lock down the crazy wouldnt we??...
 
#209
#209
ClearwaterVol said:
I think that flagging people with a history of severe mental illness would be a good start. This Ohio kid was a nutball and apparently it was well documented since high school.
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But that doesn't require any new gun laws. It just requires the local, state and federal agencies that input data to the NICS system to actually do their freaking jobs and update the system on a regular and consistent basis.
 
#210
#210
evillawyer said:
So what's the point of noting that the OH shooter supported Elizabeth Warren (assuming it's true; I haven't seen it confirmed)? Nothing to indicate his shooting was done for political ends, much less ends advocated by Warren? And certainly Warren doesn't advocate or condone violent means to advance political ends.

It'd be like pointing out the shooter liked Italian food. Is that supposed to show spaghetti leads to mass shootings?

The El Paso shooter, however, was clearly driven by political ends, the same ones advocated by Trump (see his manifesto). And when a crowd member at a Trump rally shouted about using the means that were employed by the El Paso shooter ("shoot them"), Trump joked about it and everyone in the crowd laughed.
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Well known Antifa guy. So much so that Antifa members he followed or interacted with on twitter have been deleting or making their accounts private to avoid the association. The same association that on Saturday was just fine.
 
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#215
#215
txbo said:
I wonder how many times our mental health experts are wrong about someone being dangerous.
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Is someone suffering from depression , bipolar or Parkinson’s going to be able to vote ? Will your social media footprint eventually be used to determine if you are deemed worthy ? What a slippery slope we create for ourselves when we talk about these laws that will determine our rights .
 
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#216
#216
0nelilreb said:
Is someone suffering from depression , bipolar or Parkinson’s going to be able to vote ? Will your social media footprint eventually be used to determine if you are deemed worthy ? What a slippery slope we create for ourselves when we talk about these laws that will determine our rights .
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I’m really struggling with the concept of laws limiting our constitutional rights at all. By definition that sounds fundamentally unconstitutional doesn’t it? If it’s a right, it’s a right.

I also recognize that when somebody is standing there with a rifle and 200 rounds of ammunition and indiscriminately shooting people he should have been stopped before it got to the point that he thinks that is the proper response to whatever has caused his ailments. It really isn’t a simple issue 🤷‍♂️
 
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#217
#217
NorthDallas40 said:
I’m really struggling with the concept of laws limiting our constitutional rights at all. By definition that sounds fundamentally unconstitutional doesn’t it? If it’s a right, it’s a right.

I also recognize that when somebody is standing there with a rifle and 200 rounds of ammunition and indiscriminately shooting people he should have been stopped before it got to the point that he thinks that is the proper response to whatever has caused his ailments. It really isn’t a simple issue 🤷‍♂️
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None of the issues we face today are "simple issues with simple solutions." Most of them we will always have with us no matter what we think we can do to solve them.
 
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#218
#218
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#220
#220
NorthDallas40 said:
I’m really struggling with the concept of laws limiting our constitutional rights at all. By definition that sounds fundamentally unconstitutional doesn’t it? If it’s a right, it’s a right.

I also recognize that when somebody is standing there with a rifle and 200 rounds of ammunition and indiscriminately shooting people he should have been stopped before it got to the point that he thinks that is the proper response to whatever has caused his ailments. It really isn’t a simple issue 🤷‍♂️
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All rights have limits in America. You cannot incite a riot despite free speech guarantees. You cannot create a church that smokes crack as part of its communion. You cannot buy nuclear weapons. There are limits.
 
#221
#221
ClearwaterVol said:
All rights have limits in America. You cannot incite a riot despite free speech guarantees. You cannot create a church that smokes crack as part of its communion. You cannot buy nuclear weapons. There are limits.
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There are always people trying to take those rights from you and tell you it’s for our own , your own or their own good . When we lose our rights we have nothing left but empty promises by pandering politicians .
 
#222
#222
0nelilreb said:
There are always people trying to take those rights from you and tell you it’s for our own , your own or their own good . When we lose our rights we have nothing left but empty promises by pandering politicians .
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There are always going to be limits.
 
#224
#224
ClearwaterVol said:
There are always going to be limits.
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I agree mental health needs to be addressed. I'm not sure how far we should go. What you're proposing almost sounds like the sexual offender registry, only for people who haven't actually committed a crime. I'm not sure quite where the line would or should be, but I think it's worth discussion.
 
#225
#225
txbo said:
I wonder how many times our mental health experts are wrong about someone being dangerous.
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There was a dateline on Saturday about a guy who killed six people associated with his divorce. He was divorced because he was abusive to his wife and held his son hostage at gunpoint. The psychologist assigned to evaluate him said he was destined to cause great harm or kill others around him. The state let him plead to a misdemeanor for the hostage thing and only restricted his rights to buy a gun for a few years. Within a couple months of having his rights restored he killed the psychologist, two paralegals, another doctor, and a woman he knew along with her husband. He planned to kill the ex wife as well but the cops found him and he shot himself. Who knows how many people like that are floating around our country. Considering that domestically related murders are a good chunk of homicides, I’d say a lot.
 
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