Give More Carries to Hardesty and Creer

[jwells]

Put me on the Hardesty and Creer bandwagon. I just think Foster is too slow at the point of attack and is not generally a threat to take it all the way.

Watch how many guys he has to make miss just to get a couple of yards. When your l.o.s. has moved backwards 3 yards, you're going to have issues.

 

[allvol123]

I just think it is a bit in appropriate to pick on him for not getting into the endzone when pretty much every player on the team has the same problem.

Every player on the team does not get the touches Arian does. I am not picking on him, I just don't get the view some have on here that he is absolutely the best back we have. YPC is a nice stat, so are TDs.

 

[allvol123]

They've been spread around. I'd like more TD's, too, but to say one back needs to sit because he hasn't gotten any for a team that's scored 11 times is silly.

Foster is a more than capable back. Hardesty ran 7 times for 20 yards against N. Illinois. He's a good back, and I like him, but I think if Foster is playing well, like he was Saturday, why pull him just to spread the touches? Stephens was playing pretty well, too. Should we have pulled him for a little while to play Coleman?

If it's working, don't bother with it. If Foster were rushing 30 times for 50 yards, there'd be an issue, but he's not. He had some fine runs, despite poor line play.

I do not think I have said sit him.

 

[kptvol]

Every player on the team does not get the touches Arian does. I am not picking on him, I just don't get the view some have on here that he is absolutely the best back we have. YPC is a nice stat, so are TDs.

Again, Hardesty has been getting a lot of the redzone reps. Arian is getting plenty of yards with his touches. That should translate to points. Because of our extremely poor redzone offense, it isn't.

 

[vols kick balls]

I want my starting TB to have some TDs 5 games into a season.

I don't want Foster to handle the ball inside the 20's. Only bad things happen in those situations. Still a little surprised (and concerning) that Foster hasn't got into the endzone this year.

It isn't any worse than people throwing up this YPC stuff. He has most of the carries and no TDs, seems a good point to me.

I still don't get your beef with YPC. I have never seen anyone other than you have a problem with it. It is the most basic stat that shows you how productive a stat is. It's not like it is some crazy baseball metric that stat heads have created to prove a point.

 

[allvol123]

I still don't get your beef with YPC. I have never seen anyone other than you have a problem with it. It is the most basic stat that shows you how productive a stat is. It's not like it is some crazy baseball metric that stat heads have created to prove a point.

I do not have a problem with YPC, I have a problem with looking at it as the complete picture.

 

[jmva1]

Watch how many guys he has to make miss just to get a couple of yards. When your l.o.s. has moved backwards 3 yards, you're going to have issues.

that is the stupidest argument ever. the l.o.s is like that for every back, including creer and hardesty, the difference is that creer and hardesty are quick enough to get yards in spite of that and foster isn't.

 

[kptvol]

I do not have a problem with YPC, I have a problem with looking at it as the complete picture.

I just think when guys are talking about having a big play back in the game that ypc is a good thing to look at. Guys like Reggie Bush have high ypc (7.3 in college). Hardesty hasn't shown that. Creer's sample size is still too small.

 

[kptvol]

that is the stupidest argument ever. the l.o.s is like that for every back, including creer and hardesty, the difference is that creer and hardesty are quick enough to get yards in spite of that and foster isn't.

Foster makes a lot of guys miss in the backfield. And quickness doesn't have much to do with it when a guy is in your face after 2 steps.

 

[vols kick balls]

that is the stupidest argument ever. the l.o.s is like that for every back, including creer and hardesty, the difference is that creer and hardesty are quick enough to get yards in spite of that and foster isn't.

That is why Foster is getting more YPC.

 

[jmva1]

Foster makes a lot of guys miss in the backfield. And quickness doesn't have much to do with it when a guy is in your face after 2 steps.

foster has some good moves, he's just not quick/fast enough to get signifigant yards out of them.

 

[kptvol]

Creer's longest run is 45 yards. Next is Arian with 41 yards. Hardesty's longest is 20. Sometimes Arian's ability to avoid a tackler makes a 4 yard run into a big gainer. Sometimes Arian's speed makes a 4 yard run stay a 4 yard run when Lennon Creer might have gone for a big gainer. They all have strengths.

 

[jmva1]

That is why Foster is getting more YPC.

foster is averaging 5.5 ypc with 0TDS
hardesty is averaging 4.0 with 4TDS
creer is averaging 8.9 with 2TDS

 

[kptvol]

60% of Lennon's carries were against UAB.

 

[jmva1]

Creer's longest run is 45 yards. Next is Arian with 41 yards. Hardesty's longest is 20. Sometimes Arian's ability to avoid a tackler makes a 4 yard run into a big gainer. Sometimes Arian's speed makes a 4 yard run stay a 4 yard run when Lennon Creer might have gone for a big gainer. They all have strengths.

finally someone who understands :yes:

 

[vols kick balls]

foster has some good moves, he's just not quick/fast enough to get signifigant yards out of them.

yet he still makes more out of his touches than Hardesty does.

Every time Foster touches the ball you can expect around a 5 yard gain.

Every time Hardesty touches it you can expect more than a yard less.

It's ok though. Don't let stats and actual performance influence your thought process. Just remember those several times that he got tackled for a loss like he is the only back in the history of football that it has happened too.

 

[vols kick balls]

foster is averaging 5.5 ypc with 0TDS
hardesty is averaging 4.0 with 0TDS
creer is averaging 8.9 with 2TDS

Creer doesn't have enough touches to be in this argurment. I do think Creer should get some more touches though.

 

[allvol123]

I just think when guys are talking about having a big play back in the game that ypc is a good thing to look at. Guys like Reggie Bush have high ypc (7.3 in college). Hardesty hasn't shown that. Creer's sample size is still too small.

YPC is important. I don't think Hardesty has ever averaged 10 carries per game in a season, not sure due to what games he was healthy enough to be considered for playing time. I am not confident that gives a good gauge of what his YPC would be if he were a starter getting 20+ carries a game.

 

[allvol123]

foster is averaging 5.5 ypc with 0TDS
hardesty is averaging 4.0 with 0TDS
creer is averaging 8.9 with 2TDS

I believe Hardesty has 4 TDs.

 

[jmva1]

60% of Lennon's carries were against UAB.

ok, then lets look both of their UAB game stats..

Arian Foster: 12 carries 100 yds 8.3 avg. 31 long 0 tds

Lennon Creer: 8 carries 93 yards 11.6 avg. 45 long 2 tds

both got signifigant carries, creer was more productive... the stats speak for themselves

 

[kptvol]

YPC is important. I don't think Hardesty has ever averaged 10 carries per game in a season, not sure due to what games he was healthy enough to be considered for playing time. I am not confident that gives a good gauge of what his YPC would be if he were a starter getting 20+ carries a game.

Fair enough. Utimately, I have to think that at this point, with things the way they are in the Vol program that Phil isn't basing his decisions on seniority or for some weird quest to break a record one of his own players already holds. I know you probably haven't suggested that, but plenty have. I'd have to think that running back isn't the most difficult position in the world to evaluate. If Hardesty and Creer were tearing it up in practice, I believe Phil would recognize their superiority and they'd be playing way more. Phil knows his job is less secure than it's ever been. He wants to play the best player the most. Right now he thinks that is Arian Foster.

 

[jmva1]

I believe Hardesty has 4 TDs.

your right, sorry it was a typo

 

[vols kick balls]

Creer's longest run is 45 yards. Next is Arian with 41 yards. Hardesty's longest is 20. Sometimes Arian's ability to avoid a tackler makes a 4 yard run into a big gainer. Sometimes Arian's speed makes a 4 yard run stay a 4 yard run when Lennon Creer might have gone for a big gainer. They all have strengths.

Great post.

Hardesty is the least complete back we have but is great in goalline and short yardage situations.

Foster is the most well rounded but still has his flaws. Good runner, great vision, good moves, good pass catcher and blocker. Fumble problems and lack of top end speed.

Creer is the most talented. Great speed, moves, and good vision from what I have seen. Needs more strength, to run between the tackles better, and needs to develop blocking some. Had a fumble problem last year.

All have strengths and all have their weaknesses.

 

[vols kick balls]

ok, then lets look both of their UAB game stats..

Arian Foster: 12 carries 100 yds 8.3 avg. 31 long 0 tds

Lennon Creer: 8 carries 93 yards 11.6 avg. 45 long 2 tds

both got signifigant carries, creer was more productive... the stats speak for themselves

Creer had mop up duty against a tired defense. He should have torched them (and he did).

 

[kptvol]

ok, then lets look both of their UAB game stats..

Arian Foster: 12 carries 100 yds 8.3 avg. 31 long 0 tds

Lennon Creer: 8 carries 93 yards 11.6 avg. 45 long 2 tds

both got signifigant carries, creer was more productive... the stats speak for themselves

Not to argue about this too much, but Creer didn't get his first carry until 5:38 minutes left in the third quarter. I imagine the tiny UAB defense was sucking wind at that point. Anyway, I still think Lennon's sample size is too small to compare right now.