How would you rate John Chavis as a Defensive Coordinator?

#151
#151
Kinglberry said:
I would say that with Chief running the 4-3 base and Saban(and his disciples) running the 3-4 base would make this an obvious incorrect statement.
Click to expand...
4-3 or 3-4. Theory is basically the same. Stuff the middle, force everything wide. LB's run it down. Bama runs a 3-4, but they always have a speed rusher(LB) up tight on the line. Bama uses 3 big run stoppers, instead of 2. And four five-star backers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: butchna
#152
#152
Bigun said:
Lol at Saban getting defensive philosophy from Chavis.

As said above, Chavis an above average DC overall but really struggled at times with allowing game winning drives and non traditional offenses.
Click to expand...
Very true. But, that is something that has persisted, even after Chavis. A predictably conservative offense, late in games, also contributes to this failure. Three and outs hurt the defense.
For instance, 2014, at Florida. With the lead, late, and Florida running out of TO's, we go ultra conservative on offense. Plus, Dobbs runs out of bounds, stopping the clock, on 3rd down. I think most of us knew what was about to happen, before it actually happened. Vols punt. Gators drive, score, and win. If not for the miracle, we would've suffered the same fate, at the hands of a freshman QB, in Athens.
Never bet on the UT defense, with time on the clock. But, you can bet, we'll run three plays, in 41 seconds, stop the clock and punt, giving our opponent time to win. Every damn time.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols
#153
#153
Does anyone that has viewed this thread even remember how tired the defenses were from '02 and later during each game? Honestly, I'm not a large fan of Chavis, but, to give those defenses some credit, that is all we had. Fulmer hand strung Sanders and basically micro managed the Offense. We had many and I say many three and outs! Those defenses had to have been the most in-shape defense in the nation during that time!
 
  • Like
Reactions: kbear01
#154
#154
XknoxvolsX said:
Does anyone that has viewed this thread even remember how tired the defenses were from '02 and later during each game? Honestly, I'm not a large fan of Chavis, but, to give those defenses some credit, that is all we had. Fulmer hand strung Sanders and basically micro managed the Offense. We had many and I say many three and outs! Those defenses had to have been the most in-shape defense in the nation during that time!
Click to expand...
I agree. It was always a bad omen for UT to be up two td's, going into the 4th quarter. You knew we were just going to milk the clock, on the ground, and try to punt teams deep. Putting the pressure on an already tired defense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols and Big Al Orange
#156
#156
butchna said:
Saban (and Belichick for that matter) throw out those 4 man BEAR fronts. Basic concept is the TWO strong run defenders and TWO pass rushers which can be interchangeable as either pass rushing DE’s or pass rushing edge/OLB’s. I don’t think they copied from Chief but they took notes and applied from what he and other defensive minds were doing...those defensive minds including themselves. Everybody copies everybody at some point. I grew up loving my Chicago Bears and that 4-3 scheme but especially the 46. What that entailed was bringing everybody at the QB and counting on there not being enough blockers. When the Dolphins and Dan Marino showed how to exploit that with hot reads and quick release QB play it was never really the same. Today’s 3-4 mixes that aggressiveness without applying it every play. Best DC’s never stop adjusting to the adjustments being made against them. I’m sure that’s how the Mustang reared it’s ugly head. But Chavis stayed up there until A&M. He had talent there so it must have been the actual slippage that some of you paint his whole career with.
Click to expand...

Well, Ryan's 46 defense wasn't copied from anyone--it was innovation. Bill Walsh said so.

Saban, IMO, has been influenced more by Belichik than anyone else. And Belichik didn't have to borrow from Ryan because he had LT.
And I don't think that Chavis has influenced Saban one little bit.

I'll just re-iterate what I said earlier--Chavis's history as a DC is long and distinguished at UT in failing to adjust and adapt in order to stop the better teams.
 
#157
#157
butchna said:
Driving force of that NC was Al Wilson...coached by Chief. Just bumped my rating up to A+.
Click to expand...

Wrong again.....Driving force for the NC was the OL and the relentless running attack driven by Fulmer and Cut.
Chavis and crew did manage to give up 16 points to FSU with a 3rd team QB that committed a few turnovers--one being a pick 6.

And Randy Sanders did call a pretty good game against FSU. Most forget that FSU had the #1 rated rush defense that year and we ran for more yards agains them than anyone else. I don't think we got 100...but we got enough.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols and GreyWolf1129
#158
#158
KBVol said:
Chavis? You sure it wasn’t Cut? Oh well, anybody but Fulmer/the head coach responsible for that natty, right Butchna?
Click to expand...
Narrative that you’ve applied to me that I’m not aware of?
 
#159
#159
Our fans are mostly DAs. Why do you think LSU paid him through the nose at the first opportunity they got? Why do you think numerous teams offered him more money to try and lure him away from LSU?
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols and butchna
#160
#160
MikeVol44 said:
Wrong again.....Driving force for the NC was the OL and the relentless running attack driven by Fulmer and Cut.
Chavis and crew did manage to give up 16 points to FSU with a 3rd team QB that committed a few turnovers--one being a pick 6.

And Randy Sanders did call a pretty good game against FSU. Most forget that FSU had the #1 rated rush defense that year and we ran for more yards agains them than anyone else. I don't think we got 100...but we got enough.
Click to expand...
Had that running game for years. Needed the defense to beat Florida...barely. Same Florida team that the Seminoles with same said 3rd team QB boat raced. Beat every single “one of the better” teams on their schedule that season. Of course you do that with the whole team...which includes the defense. Great team great defense great DC. Right again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Behr
#161
#161
MikeVol44 said:
Well, Ryan's 46 defense wasn't copied from anyone--it was innovation. Bill Walsh said so.

Saban, IMO, has been influenced more by Belichik than anyone else. And Belichik didn't have to borrow from Ryan because he had LT.
And I don't think that Chavis has influenced Saban one little bit.

I'll just re-iterate what I said earlier--Chavis's history as a DC is long and distinguished at UT in failing to adjust and adapt in order to stop the better teams.
Click to expand...
It was a variation and Buddy Ryan copied variations and improved them...as Bill Walsh did with Paul Brown’s offense. Belichick began attacking more after the 46’s devastating one year run and LT had his best statistical seasons afterwards...no coincidence. Belichick picked up some ideas and put his stamp on them...coaches. Chavis has a history as a great DC.
 
#162
#162
XknoxvolsX said:
I'm not sure it is so much not giving him credit. I think it's more that he wasn't as good as some project.
Click to expand...
And nowhere close to your narrative. No one could be that bad...not even Sunseri.
 
#166
#166
butchna said:
Had that running game for years. Needed the defense to beat Florida...barely. Same Florida team that the Seminoles with same said 3rd team QB boat raced. Beat every single “one of the better” teams on their schedule that season. Of course you do that with the whole team...which includes the defense. Great team great defense great DC. Right again.
Click to expand...
Noone, even Tennessee fans, thinks he is a great DC.

Good?- probably. Great? - No.
 
#168
#168
Dudleys87 said:
LSU never was stout in anything othe than talent under him.
Click to expand...
Agree. They were good at LSU but their fans got upset with the same things we did. 3rd and Chavis and game winning drives or getting other teams off the field when it mattered.

He has really struggled since leaving LSU and he had good talent at Texas AM. He's not a DC for today's offenses.
 
#171
#171
Very good, except on 3rd downs when he ran his mustang defense. Then we got toasted
More times than not.
 
#172
#172
kbear01 said:
4-3 or 3-4. Theory is basically the same. Stuff the middle, force everything wide. LB's run it down. Bama runs a 3-4, but they always have a speed rusher(LB) up tight on the line. Bama uses 3 big run stoppers, instead of 2. And four five-star backers.
Click to expand...


To take it to that basics, then Tom Landry would be the correct candidate for Chief and Sabans defense. He pioneered the 4-3 and the flex defense, which both of these guys have adapted from. To be extremely basic, almost every defense utilizes a big middle presence to stuff the line and quicker smaller ends to contain, pursue and pressure. These are not unique, new or revolutionary principles. Remember, or you may not, the 3-4 is what was primarily run in the NFL, and college, during the wing days. That shifted to the 4-3 when passing became more prolific. The return of the 3-4 is in response to the mobile QBs, option running, and other various pressures put on the defense by complex running and short passing attacks. Another consideration is the relative ease to find enough linebackers who are athletic to play the positions vs DTs to play the 4-3. Remember, read, relative. This means the number of ILB/NT combos vs MLB/DT. To say that Saban copied Chief is to say Cutcliffe copied Walsh or Kelly copied Spurrier.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kbear01
#174
#174
Bigun said:
Their recruiting is always ranked at LSU and A&M. It wasn't because of Chavis they had great recruits.
Click to expand...
Nationally ranked and he went on the road...unlike in Knoxville. Sorry...it’s out of our hands. Great recruiter at LSU and A&M.
 
#175
#175
Amazing but you ask LSU fans the same question and they’ll give the same answers. LSU lost several big games due to his inability to stop teams on the last drive.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement



Back
Top