To Protect and to Serve II

#7,676
#7,676
tennvols77 said:
So why do I need to call the cops to do, well, anything? If they don't have to protect someone, then protection is reliant upon the individual. If the individual is solely responsible for their protection, then why should I call them when there is any dispute that could escalate to physical violence and the threat of bodily harm? Out of fear of going to jail.......well self preservation takes precedence over jail to me, so, what purpose then do the police ultimately serve?

Seems to me this gives citizens a right to handle any dangerous situation on their own without any need for the police. And constitutionally, gives them that right as the only person responsible for the safety of self is the individual........
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hehehe
 
#7,682
#7,682
davethevol said:
The law allows for police to use cellphones while driving.
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In short, LEO's are exempted from all of the "Rules of the Road", with the sole and notable exception being "Due Regard". There are additional restrictions or limitations, on a state-by-state basis, but that's the nickel version.

Now, having said that, here's where I stand on it: As an example, how fast do you / should you drive on the Interstate when in a marked unit, not responding to a call. Do you (a) drive the speed limit; create a 1/2 mile long logjam behind you, and see who's got the cojones to pass you?; (b) drive 10-15 over while every driver you pass says "Look at that arrogant jackwad driving at the same speed he writes tickets for?"; or (c) try to find the happy middle ground where you're not creating a logjam, but not flying by people like Krispy Kreme is about to close? For me, it's (c). I usually run in the 75-80 range on the "I". That seems to work. Anywhere in the 5-7 over range on most roads will usually work. My "line" is usually 15 over (except for School Zones and residential areas), so I'm not doing anything I would stop you for.

Cell phones and MDT's. Most MDT's now have a (GPS) speed-related lockout which disables most functions, usually in the 15 mph area. As for cell phones, hands-free OK, anything else not. I used to tell my guys "Never write a ticket for anything you do on a regular basis." For those who wanted to debate the "LEO exemption", my response was "Well, it ain't illegal to step on a rattlesnake, either...but I don't recall ever seeing you do it." Me being an old fart, I usually pull over anyways for most phone calls, since I'm already multi-tasking by listening to four separate channels on my VHF radio; watching what's going on around me; driving; and now trying to carry on a conversation on the phone. Just too much for my old brain. Pull over, pull off, or let the call wait until you can. I've worked a number of crashes where a cell phone was a contributing factor, sometimes even on a hands-free device.

I try to not do anything, even if the law allows it, that wouldn't sit well with "Joe Average" if they saw me doing it.
 
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#7,683
#7,683
GreyWolf1129 said:
In short, LEO's are exempted from all of the "Rules of the Road", with the sole and notable exception being "Due Regard". There are additional restrictions or limitations, on a state-by-state basis, but that's the nickel version.

Now, having said that, here's where I stand on it: As an example, how fast do you / should you drive on the Interstate when in a marked unit, not responding to a call. Do you (a) drive the speed limit; create a 1/2 mile long logjam behind you, and see who's got the cojones to pass you?; (b) drive 10-15 over while every driver you pass says "Look at that arrogant jackwad driving at the same speed he writes tickets for?"; or (c) try to find the happy middle ground where you're not creating a logjam, but not flying by people like Krispy Kreme is about to close? For me, it's (c). I usually run in the 75-80 range on the "I". That seems to work. Anywhere in the 5-7 over range on most roads will usually work. My "line" is usually 15 over (except for School Zones and residential areas), so I'm not doing anything I would stop you for.

Cell phones and MDT's. Most MDT's now have a (GPS) speed-related lockout which disables most functions, usually in the 15 mph area. As for cell phones, hands-free OK, anything else not. I used to tell my guys "Never write a ticket for anything you do on a regular basis." For those who wanted to debate the "LEO exemption", my response was "Well, it ain't illegal to step on a rattlesnake, either...but I don't recall ever seeing you do it." Me being an old fart, I usually pull over anyways for most phone calls, since I'm already multi-tasking by listening to four separate channels on my VHF radio; watching what's going on around me; driving; and now trying to carry on a conversation on the phone. Just too much for my old brain. Pull over, pull off, or let the call wait until you can. I've worked a number of crashes where a cell phone was a contributing factor, sometimes even on a hands-free device.

I try to not do anything, even if the law allows it, that wouldn't sit well with "Joe Average" if they saw me doing it.
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It drives me nuts when cops tailgate in the left lane when you can’t get over. We get it, the rules don’t apply to you, but if you’ll back off I’ll get over so you can fly past. If you rode a cop’s ass like that they’d pull you over in a heartbeat.
 
#7,684
#7,684
DancingOutlaw said:
It drives me nuts when cops tailgate in the left lane when you can’t get over. We get it, the rules don’t apply to you, but if you’ll back off I’ll get over so you can fly past. If you rode a cop’s ass like that they’d pull you over in a heartbeat.
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Shoot man, I get behind them and follow them as long as I can. Not tailgating them though. 2 or 3 car lengths away. Just doing the same speed. Never had any trouble with them at all doing that.
 
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#7,685
#7,685
DancingOutlaw said:
It drives me nuts when cops tailgate in the left lane when you can’t get over. We get it, the rules don’t apply to you, but if you’ll back off I’ll get over so you can fly past. If you rode a cop’s ass like that they’d pull you over in a heartbeat.
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Yep. I don't like it, and I don't do it. If I'm in that big of a hurry, it's a code run, and you'll see and hear me coming.

I see it from time to time when we're traveling. Pi**es me off just as much as it does you.
 
#7,692
#7,692
davethevol said:
I think that was intentional and he thought nothing would happen to him. He just wanted to kill someone.
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I think he panicked when she got that close to him. All he could think about was being "trapped in his coffin", and his instinctive response was Deadly Force. Not defending him, or his actions. It was excessive, it was wrong, and it was criminal. Justice has been served, or as close to it as our system allows. But I don't think he just wanted to shoot someone. I think he panicked. Odds are that he never possessed the demeanor necessary to make a good cop. Just guessing here, but I've seen panic shots and sympathetic fire before. There's always an underlying cause. Usually, it's an oversight (or turning a blind eye) in the screening, training, or evaluation process.

Just a long-distance opinion, but I'd bet I'm close, if not in the 10-ring on this one.
 
#7,693
#7,693
GreyWolf1129 said:
In short, LEO's are exempted from all of the "Rules of the Road", with the sole and notable exception being "Due Regard". There are additional restrictions or limitations, on a state-by-state basis, but that's the nickel version.

Now, having said that, here's where I stand on it: As an example, how fast do you / should you drive on the Interstate when in a marked unit, not responding to a call. Do you (a) drive the speed limit; create a 1/2 mile long logjam behind you, and see who's got the cojones to pass you?; .
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That's me! I'll pass a LEO if he is driving the speed limit. Those log jams are ridiculous and dangerous.
 
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#7,694
#7,694
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
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Just another day in the office for those who swore to protect and serve.

Violating the rights of American citizens is the new norm for our law enforcement officers who swore to uphold the constitution.

These cops and other officers like them should be locked up in gitmo for their terrorist actions.
 
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#7,695
#7,695
GreyWolf1129 said:
I think he panicked when she got that close to him. All he could think about was being "trapped in his coffin", and his instinctive response was Deadly Force. Not defending him, or his actions. It was excessive, it was wrong, and it was criminal. Justice has been served, or as close to it as our system allows. But I don't think he just wanted to shoot someone. I think he panicked. Odds are that he never possessed the demeanor necessary to make a good cop. Just guessing here, but I've seen panic shots and sympathetic fire before. There's always an underlying cause. Usually, it's an oversight (or turning a blind eye) in the screening, training, or evaluation process.

Just a long-distance opinion, but I'd bet I'm close, if not in the 10-ring on this one.
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Justice isn’t close to being served.

I think the cop should receive the death penalty.

The idiot went through alleged training to be a public servant and his reaction to a lady walking up to the police cruiser that was paid for by tax payers money was to shoot her.
 
#7,696
#7,696
MOOOOONEY said:
Justice isn’t close to being served.

I think the cop should receive the death penalty.

The idiot went through alleged training to be a public servant and his reaction to a lady walking up to the police cruiser that was paid for by tax payers money was to shoot her.
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Criminal? Yes. Prison? Yes. Death penalty? No. Two words are missing here: Malice aforethought.

Our system isn't perfect. Personally...were it not against the law...I'm all for a dose of "Arab Justice" for those who steal, then steal again, then steal again, etc. I'd be okay with tossing pedophiles out of an airplane at 10,000 feet. But that's not the system we have, and that's not who we are.

Do you then also then support criminal charges against those who trained him, evaluated him, and supervised him? How far back do you stop cutting to make sure you get all the rot? Slippery slope.

Doesn't matter who paid for the cruiser. It was criminal, he has been tried and convicted by a jury of his peers, and he will answer for his crime the same as any other citizen under the law. While a higher standard of behavior may have been considered here, the simple fact is that he should not have responded the way he did. That a life was lost as a result is tragic, but absent a clear and obvious intent to cause serious harm in advance of the actual event, there is no malice aforethought, and thus the elements of a Murder charge likely could not be met.

Not taking sides. I'm glad he was held accountable for his actions. I would have preferred to see a longer sentence. But while he does not suffer the biblical fate of "an eye for an eye", his life is forever ruined as a result of his actions. Nothing society does to him will bring her back.

Justice isn't blind, it's just nearsighted sometimes.
 
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#7,698
#7,698
Velo Vol said:
This is something.

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What pisses me off the most is... You could tell by the relaxed, nonchalant behavior of the LEOs that none of them perceived him as a legitimate threat. So with that in mind, why stand around for (at least) 2 minutes doing absolutely nothing, essentially giving a man who's clearly not a threat but has (at least) a half a dozen guns pointed at him and is probably scared as hell a chance to make a wrong move and get himself shot? They either didn't know what the hell they were doing or simply wanted to have a reason to shoot him. Basically... They're either incompetent or evil.
 
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#7,699
#7,699
Cdywolfe said:
What pisses me off the most is... You could tell by the relaxed, nonchalant behavior of the LEOs that none of them perceived him as a legitimate threat. So with that in mind, why stand around for (at least) 2 minutes doing absolutely nothing, essentially giving a man who's clearly not a threat but has (at least) a half a dozen guns pointed at him and is probably scared as hell a chance to make a wrong move and get himself shot? They either didn't know what the hell they were doing or simply wanted to have a reason to shoot him. Basically... They're either incompetent or evil.
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Earning the hate...

First off, the woman filming has no idea how bad of situation she put herself in by being in the line of fire.

Next, these damn cops... I swear, its almost like these cops nowadays really are itching to live a childhood fantasy of playing cops and robbers. They pulled out all of the weaponry they could and aimed them at a man that was on his knees with his hands behind his head. Just a disgusting exhibition of policecraft.
 
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#7,700
#7,700
Rasputin_Vol said:
Earning the hate...

First off, the woman filming has no idea how bad of situation she put herself in by being in the line of fire.

Next, these damn cops... I swear, its almost like these cops nowadays really are itching to live a childhood fantasy of playing cops and robbers. They pulled out all of the weaponry they could and aimed them at a man that was on his knees with his hands behind his head. Just a disgusting exhibition of policecraft.
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Yeah I was actually thinking while watching that if shots started flying, she'd almost certainly have gotten herself killed as well.

And TBH, I actually think she may have been making things worse and not better. As she was making her scene, I could literally fell the tension of the situation increasing. She should've pulled out her phone to record, probably vocalized they were being live streamed, and stood aside and stfu...
 
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