The Jarrett Guarantano debate thread...

[lexkyvol]

Dobbs made things happen out of nothing because he was mobile with his legs,JG could be also but he can’t make those decisions to get out the pocket fast enough.Both Dobbs and JG were dual threat qbs.JG is fast enough but he won’t ever leave the pocket when he has to,instead he will force the covered check down throw that’s why he only averages (9.8 yards) passing per game which is ridiculously sad.

yeah, see you've watched for 2 years and for some reason you are still on this JG as a dual threat thing heavy and even here went comparing his running ability to that of a one Joshua Dobbs. yeah bud, you're either trolling like a few others or low football iq like a few of them as well. i mean even the eye test calls that stance moronic.......but by all means continue

 

[chargervol]

which year bub? because when worley was back there, he had time and the running game worked. worley stunk it up and dobbs replaced him. that unit of stone and co is still playing in the nfl. facts

and to top that off, dobbs wasnt a very good passer so who was worried about down the field throws with him? meaning teams could crowd the box, yet we still ran.

Worley was injured after his 29th sack of the year in 2013 and that was the best OL in Jones' entire career here. The OL was crap for Dobbs seasons as starter.

 

[lexkyvol]

Worley was injured after his 29th sack of the year in 2013 and that was the best OL in Jones' entire career here. The OL was crap for Dobbs seasons as starter.

hurd ran for 451, kamara for 596, and kelly for 630........yeah, his oline was trash.

but you right.......

1. Last year, it all came together.
   All that group did was pave the way for Hurd, Kamara and Dobbs to rack up the second-highest rushing total in school history. The Vols line needs to improve in its pass protection, but there's reason to believe the offensive front could be a team strength in '16.
   Leading the way is All-SEC guard Dylan Wiesman and star staples guard Jashon Robertson and center Coleman Thomas. All three of those guys are capable of being first-team all-league players. Then, there's sophomore Chance Hall, who'll try to rally from an injury that cost him the spring to live up to his massive potential.
   Drew Richmond is the wild card as a redshirt freshman currently slated to start at left tackle, barring losing the position to somebody such as Brett Kendrick or potentially a guard who'll slide down to play on the outside.
   That's a stellar starting five, but the Vols aren't done there. Guards Venzell Boulware and Jack Jones could start for a lot of teams in the SEC. Redshirt sophomore Charles Mosley is still a work in progress but could be a nice player for the Vols down the road. Austin Sanders could provide snaps at guard, too.
   
   Position-by-Position Preview of Tennessee's 2016 Roster

 

[chargervol]

hurd ran for 451, kamara for 596, and kelly for 630........yeah, his oline was trash.

but you right.......

1. Last year, it all came together.
   All that group did was pave the way for Hurd, Kamara and Dobbs to rack up the second-highest rushing total in school history. The Vols line needs to improve in its pass protection, but there's reason to believe the offensive front could be a team strength in '16.
   Leading the way is All-SEC guard Dylan Wiesman and star staples guard Jashon Robertson and center Coleman Thomas. All three of those guys are capable of being first-team all-league players. Then, there's sophomore Chance Hall, who'll try to rally from an injury that cost him the spring to live up to his massive potential.
   Drew Richmond is the wild card as a redshirt freshman currently slated to start at left tackle, barring losing the position to somebody such as Brett Kendrick or potentially a guard who'll slide down to play on the outside.
   That's a stellar starting five, but the Vols aren't done there. Guards Venzell Boulware and Jack Jones could start for a lot of teams in the SEC. Redshirt sophomore Charles Mosley is still a work in progress but could be a nice player for the Vols down the road. Austin Sanders could provide snaps at guard, too.
   
   Position-by-Position Preview of Tennessee's 2016 Roster

Dobbs didn't get all those yards because the OL was awesome, just the opposite. AK was AK and Hurd also had the most attempts, check his ypc for goodness' sake.

I'm not gonna debate this anymore. You are seriously the 1st person I've ever seen that tried to claim '15 and '16 as great OL.
I'm more caught off guard than anything lol.

 

[1vol8]

Dobbs OL was not good. Dobbs as a threat to run helped the run game, OL, and RB's.

However, no one should expect JG to be Dobbs. He just has to learn to be effective with HIS skill set. IMO, he throws the ball MUCH better than Dobbs. He just needs to learn reads and timing and speed up his decisions.

Man you catch a lot of crap on a lot of different threads but I gotta tell you, you're spot on with your knowledge of the qb position.

Im not in the JG/o line bashing game that's been created on VN and that's why I'm giving you the compliment. I see people twisting what you say and turn it into something you're not saying at all(its happend to me with a couple posters that shall remain nameless). JG and the o line are both contributors as well as the strongest unit on the team. The WRs. Although very talented, we don't have speed on the outside. Which means dbs can be trusted in 1 on 1 coverage with no help over the top, Safties can drop into the box, LBs can cheat forward a yd or 2 from their normal depth and the entire secondary can keep the play in front of them and never have to turn their backs. ALL of which puts more stress on the o line because they are having to combo block more often/faster than they should. They can't get to the second level in run blocking because the second level plays downhill. Overall this problem is a combination of an o line that's not ready to play "3 yrds and a cloud of dust" yet game planning for such. JG being more likely to take the safe checkdowns and WRs that are stronger than fast.

It seems that there are very few people these days that understand the depth of this game and how one position compliments the other. I actually enjoy reading your posts and arguments because you're obviously a student of the game.

 

[volbeast33]

Ok JG fan boy.

Maybe you will wake up and realize that check downs and failed drives aren't the way to win football games.

I thought JG did good last season..... you are expecting a lot from a QB with no running game.... no pass blocking and throwing from 2nd and 3rd and long the whole season.... no QB looks great in those situations.

 

[KeyVol14]

Coming from a qb that never had to run out of the pocket or ever experience what a bad o line feels like,I’ll take someone else’s opinion.JG is not the answer and you’ll see it again for a 3rd straight year

If your saying the inept of this offense is due to soley on what you think JG lacks then your mistaken. Take This for example: Tua plays great all year until the NC game cuz his offensive line couldn't block Clemson's front seven. Idc how good you are, if you don't have the protection in front of you, you will look average at best. The SEC is a line of scrimmage league like it always has. And UT hasn't had an offensive line worth a crap since Butch's first year at helm

 

[UTSuave’]

As a passer? What makes you to believe he's not good as a passer? One of the higher completion percentages and QBr in the country. He sure isnt responsible for throwing any games away

Lol yea you’re right at 10 yards or less.JG literally average 9 yards passing per game lol he never throws beyond the sticks.

 

[UTSuave’]

If your saying the inept of this offense is due to soley on what you think JG lacks then your mistaken. Take This for example: Tua plays great all year until the NC game cuz his offensive line couldn't block Clemson's front seven. Idc how good you are, if you don't have the protection in front of you, you will look average at best. The SEC is a line of scrimmage league like it always has. And UT hasn't had an offensive line worth a crap since Butch's first year at helm

In key games yes “running the ball” does factor,for example our game is “Georgia and Florida” whoever establishes the line of scrimmage 9 times out of 10 wins but that’s not the case for all the SEC games you forget as to why les miles isn’t coaching in the sec anymore,because In some ways the game passed him up.the game has changed Its not 3 downs and a cloud of dust anymore but all of the good coaches have adapted.forcing a running game is pointless if you do not establish a passing game,which is why the box is always loaded blitzing and the o line can’t protect JG because can’t or won’t throw a pass more than 10 yards,the stats are literally there but people still want to defend him because of a QBR and he’s tough lol.if you don’t believe me that JG isn’t the answer, look up his high school stats and compare them to his college stats.literally identical.he’s never improved at all,he’s always had a high QBR but couldn’t win games “23 touchdowns in 4 years” L_O_L.

 

[chattavol420]

Jg can make all the throws and by all accounts is a really good guy. But he doesn’t have that moxie out on the field. It’s hard to describe but you know it Shane you see if. Great qbs just feel the game. They know how much time they have when a blitzer is coming from their blind side. They know when to take a shot and when to take the check down. They know when you just need to move the chains. Jg just never makes those type plays. He never attempts anything down the field. He checks down everything. That’s why his completion percentage is good.

 

[dcm3w]

hurd ran for 451, kamara for 596, and kelly for 630........yeah, his oline was trash.

but you right.......

1. Last year, it all came together.
   All that group did was pave the way for Hurd, Kamara and Dobbs to rack up the second-highest rushing total in school history. The Vols line needs to improve in its pass protection, but there's reason to believe the offensive front could be a team strength in '16.
   Leading the way is All-SEC guard Dylan Wiesman and star staples guard Jashon Robertson and center Coleman Thomas. All three of those guys are capable of being first-team all-league players. Then, there's sophomore Chance Hall, who'll try to rally from an injury that cost him the spring to live up to his massive potential.
   Drew Richmond is the wild card as a redshirt freshman currently slated to start at left tackle, barring losing the position to somebody such as Brett Kendrick or potentially a guard who'll slide down to play on the outside.
   That's a stellar starting five, but the Vols aren't done there. Guards Venzell Boulware and Jack Jones could start for a lot of teams in the SEC. Redshirt sophomore Charles Mosley is still a work in progress but could be a nice player for the Vols down the road. Austin Sanders could provide snaps at guard, too.
   
   Position-by-Position Preview of Tennessee's 2016 Roster

You realize that those aren't spectacular numbers for any of individuals. The only reason we were successful was because of Dobbs' legs which DCs had to scheme against. It made the OL look better than they actually were. If Dobbs wasn't a DT then we would've not put up the stats we did. See: Worley, JG, and Dormady...

 

[dcm3w]

Jg can make all the throws and by all accounts is a really good guy. But he doesn’t have that moxie out on the field. It’s hard to describe but you know it Shane you see if. Great qbs just feel the game. They know how much time they have when a blitzer is coming from their blind side. They know when to take a shot and when to take the check down. They know when you just need to move the chains. Jg just never makes those type plays. He never attempts anything down the field. He checks down everything. That’s why his completion percentage is good.

I can guarantee you that those guys with the "moxie" you're talking about aren't constantly being blown up in the back field.

 

[FLVOL_79]

Dobbs didn't get all those yards because the OL was awesome, just the opposite. AK was AK and Hurd also had the most attempts, check his ypc for goodness' sake.

I'm not gonna debate this anymore. You are seriously the 1st person I've ever seen that tried to claim '15 and '16 as great OL.
I'm more caught off guard than anything lol.

Something tells me his defense of JG isn't based on tangible on field results.....

 

[GAVol]

Lol yea you’re right at 10 yards or less.JG literally average 9 yards passing per game lol he never throws beyond the sticks.

Might want to go look at that stat. Basically nobody averages 10 yards per attempt.

 

[chargervol]

Since for whatever reason I decided to join this discussion, I want to be clear.
I'm discussing where I think JG needs to improve for him to take the next step. And while I see/acknowledge those areas, unlike some, I believe he has the talent and capability to take that step.

The areas he has lacked in are real but so is the poor OL play, lack of consistent coaching and his youth. It's not the same as a freshman at GA or Clemson where they were thrown into a really solid supporting cast.

Chaney has a solid reputation and I *believe JG knows where he hasn't performed well. He has been/will be working his butt off to correct those areas imo.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

yeah, see you've watched for 2 years and for some reason you are still on this JG as a dual threat thing heavy and even here went comparing his running ability to that of a one Joshua Dobbs. yeah bud, you're either trolling like a few others or low football iq like a few of them as well. i mean even the eye test calls that stance moronic.......but by all means continue

You are calling someone other than you has a low football IQ?

 

[BeardedVol]

You are calling someone other than you has a low football IQ?

 

[sjt18]

Man you catch a lot of crap on a lot of different threads but I gotta tell you, you're spot on with your knowledge of the qb position.

Im not in the JG/o line bashing game that's been created on VN and that's why I'm giving you the compliment. I see people twisting what you say and turn it into something you're not saying at all(its happend to me with a couple posters that shall remain nameless). JG and the o line are both contributors as well as the strongest unit on the team. The WRs. Although very talented, we don't have speed on the outside. Which means dbs can be trusted in 1 on 1 coverage with no help over the top, Safties can drop into the box, LBs can cheat forward a yd or 2 from their normal depth and the entire secondary can keep the play in front of them and never have to turn their backs. ALL of which puts more stress on the o line because they are having to combo block more often/faster than they should. They can't get to the second level in run blocking because the second level plays downhill. Overall this problem is a combination of an o line that's not ready to play "3 yrds and a cloud of dust" yet game planning for such. JG being more likely to take the safe checkdowns and WRs that are stronger than fast.

It seems that there are very few people these days that understand the depth of this game and how one position compliments the other. I actually enjoy reading your posts and arguments because you're obviously a student of the game.

Thank you.

Prepare to be blasted.

 

[sjt18]

so since the qb couldnt make the calls as JG said, then what? or you got a made-up answer for that too? and JG completed passes over the middle, yet they still blocked horribly. but u got an excuse in JGs direction for that too huh?

You are not open to facts. That's why it is necessary for you to twist what I say or ignore my actual points when responding to me.

The previous two staffs did not trust JG with certain aspects of "managing the game". Chaney and JG have both indicated that's no longer an option.

JG seldom threw in the short to medium middle. That's just a fact... that you can go check for yourself.

Yes. QB decisions and play impact OL play just like OL play impacts a QB's play. Do you understand that complimentary relationship? Do you understand that a QB's inability to see coverage or pressure pre-snap then make a decision that gets the ball off at the right time either makes it look like the OL didn't block correctly even though they may have?

I can only imagine that you don't want to think about these things due to some bias.

 

[sjt18]

Coming from a qb that never had to run out of the pocket or ever experience what a bad o line feels like,I’ll take someone else’s opinion.JG is not the answer and you’ll see it again for a 3rd straight year

JG needs to speed up. The OL needs to get better.

If those two things happen, he's the "answer".

 

[sjt18]

They said that a couple of times out of the over 300 hits he had last year.

No one has ever said the line was responsible for every single sack. But like Eric Ainge even says the line is responsiblefor about 90% of them.

So yea you can find a play or two he holds the ball too long. Every single qb has a few of those plays.

Cite your source... or are you lying again?

 

[sjt18]

which year bub? because when worley was back there, he had time and the running game worked.

Are you kidding? Worley took as much or probably more abuse than JG.

worley stunk it up and dobbs replaced him. that unit of stone and co is still playing in the nfl. facts

Worley got injured. Can't you even be honest about something like that?

Justin Worley Injury: Updates on Tennessee QB's Shoulder and Return

FTR, when Worley was injured in game 7, he had completed over 62% of his passes for almost 1600 yds with 12 TD's and 8 INT's. Only Pig Howard had over 500 yds receiving that season.


As for pressure, the one public stat available for comparison is sacks. UT gave up 23 last year and 43 in 2014. UT threw much more in '14... because they felt they could. Last year UT gave up 1 sack for every 12.9 pass attempts. In '14, it was 1 for every 10.5 attempts.

They weren't good at pass protection that year and especially with Worley who had lead feet.

You really should check your "facts" before claiming they're "facts".

Oh, another "fact". Stone and company were gone in '14 replaced by Jones' poor development and idiotic schemes/techniques/development.

and to top that off, dobbs wasnt a very good passer so who was worried about down the field throws with him? meaning teams could crowd the box, yet we still ran.

Yeah. He "sucked" so bad that after replacing Worley he completed just over 63% of his passes for over 1200 yds, 9 TD's, and 6 INT's in just 6 games. Playing just over 3 quarters in relief of Peterman vs Bama. Dobbs completed 19 of 32 and 192 yds with 2 TD's and 1 INT.


For comparison's sake, JG last year in 12 games threw for only 1907 yds. Worley threw as many TD passes while getting maimed in 7 games as JG did in 12.

The offense that year ran through the QB because they trusted both Worley and Dobbs to "manage the O"... to do the mental parts well. Worley averaged 36 attempts per game with Dobbs at 30. They only allowed JG to throw it about 20 times per game last year and 15 the year before.

Unless you are proposing that they were trying to lose... they didn't put the game in JG's hands because they didn't think they could.

 

[sjt18]

Didn't JG come out and say he was not allowed to change plays at line of scrimmage under Helton...now he has more free range under chaney. I would bet we would see a huge difference this year

I hope there is a huge difference. But the most logical reason an OC who has had "cerebral" QB's before would limit a QB's freedom to make decisions... they didn't trust him AND the OL. If they trusted him then they could have offset the OL with a "dink and dunk" O. If they trusted the OL then they could have run more long developing plays.

My bet is that it is less him being "allowed" than Chaney expecting/demanding it. Either way, Chaney is challenging him to be a complete QB... which will either be great for all involved or result in UT having a new QB at some point this year. I'm willing to bet that Chaney won't be satisfied with an SEC worst 325 ypg of total O... which included a passing O that didn't even break 200 ypg though they passed 61% of the time.

 

[Behr]

Thank you.

I am Legend.

 

[sjt18]

Indeed... and quite a compliment coming from another...