Abortions and the bible.

[NurseGoodVol]

If the woman was killing herself, id mind my own business. Killing unborn babies shouldnt be a choice. And the whole "its her body" argument is stupid. Its not just her body, take a look at abortion pics where the babys torn apart legs,arms,torso lay arranged on a table and tell me whose body is being affected.

I've seen the videos, I've seen the pictures, its barbaric.

 

[Obsessed]

I've seen the videos, I've seen the pictures, its barbaric.

I watched it happen in real life.
It took me years to come to terms with what I participated in. Damn near committed suicide over my actions.
I still haven’t fully forgiven myself.

 

[NurseGoodVol]

I watched it happen in real life.
It took me years to come to terms with what I participated in. Damn near committed suicide over my actions.
I still haven’t fully forgiven myself.

my heart just broke for you.
I did things in my young life i truly regretted. Things that hurt others and still make me cry today when i think of it. Looking back, i never repeated those mistakes and did ask for their forgiveness. It was all i could do. Eventually i forgave myself long after they did. I carry those lessons in my memory.
Forgive yourself.

 

[kiddiedoc]

I watched it happen in real life.
It took me years to come to terms with what I participated in. Damn near committed suicide over my actions.
I still haven’t fully forgiven myself.

You're a brave person to speak those words. We've all done terrible things we regret and would take back if we could. The good news is that God still loves us and offers COMPLETE restoration through his free gift of Grace. I'll pray tonight that he frees you of your guilt and surrounds you with mercy. We all need it, and it's so hard to accept... But it's real, and it's CERTAIN that He has already provided for us.

 

[Roustabout]

I've experienced miscarriages from most every perspective a man can. In every instance it was not viewed as the death of a child but as a lost pregnancy. (None were past the 4 month mark)

Pregnant with what?
You honestly expect us to believe that you didn’t tell people you were expecting a baby?
Nobody asked if it was (already) a boy or girl?

The loss of a child during pregnancy is never going to be as traumatic because you don’t yet know the child.

Just like you wont get upset today despite the fact that thousands of born children will die across the globe. You don’t know them. Also, it’s why you don’t care about unborn children being killed and having their body parts sold. Unfortunately, none of us would be here without this essential stage of human development. When you undermine its value you undermine the value of humanity.

 

[Roustabout]

Here's my question, if it's considered illegal to kill certain animals, why is it not illegal to kill a developing baby? Is human life not more valuable than a freaking animal?

Obviously, to some of these people, no.

 

[mrmax86]

I've experienced miscarriages from most every perspective a man can. In every instance it was not viewed as the death of a child but as a lost pregnancy. (None were past the 4 month mark)

Tell that to my wife.

 

[luthervol]

Tell that to my wife.

Not my place. My place was with my wife and the others I've known who have had miscarriages.

 

[mrmax86]

Not my place. My place was with my wife and the others I've known who have had miscarriages.

Fine, but it sounds like you're implying that your experiences are to be extended to the rest. I'm saying no.

 

[Septic]

Fine, but it sounds like you're implying that your experiences are to be extended to the rest. I'm saying no.

You've implied that your beliefs should be extended to everyone, what's the difference?

 

[luthervol]

Fine, but it sounds like you're implying that your experiences are to be extended to the rest. I'm saying no.

No more so than the people who talk as if it's the murder of a child feel they are speaking for the rest.

 

[mrmax86]

You've implied that your beliefs should be extended to everyone, what's the difference?

I'm arguing that murder is murder and you can't come up with a legitimate excuse why it isn't murder. I'm not implying anything. I'm being very direct. There are not many "beliefs" behind my words, unless you are speaking of my belief that murder is inherently wrong.

You believe that murdering an unborn human is somehow okay. When we ask why, your reasons are baseless.

 

[mrmax86]

No more so than the people who talk as if it's the murder of a child feel they are speaking for the rest.

Give me a good reason why it's not, and I'll rest.

 

[rjd970]

Give me a good reason why it's not, and I'll rest.

There have been plenty of reasons in this thread. You may not agree or think they are good, but I’m sure the feeling is mutual.

 

[luthervol]

Give me a good reason why it's not, and I'll rest.

Because a fetus is not an independent living human being.

 

[superdave1984]

No more so than the people who talk as if it's the murder of a child feel they are speaking for the rest.

This all revolves around each person's definition of "murder" and "child". We will not all agree on either.


Child
noun: child; plural noun: children
a young human being below the age of puberty or below the legal age of majority.

synonyms: youngster, young one, little one, boy, girl; More
a son or daughter of any age.

an immature or irresponsible person.

a person who has little or no experience in a particular area.

the descendants of a family or people.



Murder
noun: murder; plural noun: murders

the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

INFORMAL
a very difficult or unpleasant task or experience.

verb
verb: murder; 3rd person present: murders; past tense: murdered; past participle: murdered; gerund or present participle: murdering

kill (someone) unlawfully and with premeditation.



Legal definition of child:
This word has two meanings in law: (1) In the law of the domestic relations, and as to descent and distribution, it is used strictly as the correlative of “parent,” and means a son or daughter considered as in relation with the father or mother. (2) In the law of negligence, and in laws for the protection of children, etc., it is used as the CHILD 197 CHIROGRAPH opposite of “adult,” and means the young of the human species, (generally under the age of puberty,) without any reference to parentage and without distinction of sex.



Legal definitions of murder:

Murder occurs when one human being unlawfully kills another human being. See Homicide. The precise legal definition of murder varies by jurisdiction. Most states distinguish between different degrees of murder. Some other states base their murder laws on the Model Penal Code.

Common Law Murder
At common law, murder was defined as killing another human being with malice aforethought. Malice aforethought is a legal term of art, that encompasses the following types of murder:

"Intent-to-kill murder"
"Grievous-bodily-harm murder" - Killing someone in an attack intended to cause them grievous bodily harm. For example, if the defendant fatally stabbed the victim, even if the defendant only intended to wound the victim, the defendant would still be liable for murder.
"Felony-murder" - Killing someone while in the process of committing a felony. Note that at common law, there were few felonies, and all carried the death penalty. For example, at common law, robbery was a felony. So if a robber accidentally killed someone during a robbery, the robber could be executed.
"Depraved heart murder" - Killing someone in a way that demonstrates a callous disregard for the value of human life. For example, if a person intentionally fires a gun into a crowded room, and someone dies, the person could be convicted of depraved heart murder.


So, it would appear that, legally, a fetus is a child. However, since abortion IS legal, it is not technically murder by some definitions. Unless you go with the common law definition.

I agree with the legal definition, especially "the young of the human species". I would interpret murder using the Common Law definition.

Argue away.

 

[superdave1984]

Because a fetus is not an independent living human being.

Neither are most humans before adulthood and some after. A toddler is not an independent living human being, it is heavily dependent on others for almost everything.

 

[Septic]

I'm arguing that murder is murder and you can't come up with a legitimate excuse why it isn't murder. I'm not implying anything. I'm being very direct. There are not many "beliefs" behind my words, unless you are speaking of my belief that murder is inherently wrong.

You believe that murdering an unborn human is somehow okay. When we ask why, your reasons are baseless.

For a "murder" to occur, a human being must be killed by another unlawfully. The argument you deem baseless is that many (including courts) don't share your views that an unviable fetus rises to the level of being a "human." When they are ~>28 weeks it is widely accepted that the fetus becomes viable ex utero. This is why late term abortions are not legal and why your cries of "murder!" are what is, in fact, baseless.

You don't have to like this answer or even agree with it, but its truth isn't diminished by your unwillingness to reconcile it.

 

[Septic]

This all revolves around each person's definition of "murder" and "child". We will not all agree on either.


Child
noun: child; plural noun: children
a young human being below the age of puberty or below the legal age of majority.

synonyms: youngster, young one, little one, boy, girl; More
a son or daughter of any age.

an immature or irresponsible person.

a person who has little or no experience in a particular area.

the descendants of a family or people.



Murder
noun: murder; plural noun: murders

the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

INFORMAL
a very difficult or unpleasant task or experience.

verb
verb: murder; 3rd person present: murders; past tense: murdered; past participle: murdered; gerund or present participle: murdering

kill (someone) unlawfully and with premeditation.



Legal definition of child:
This word has two meanings in law: (1) In the law of the domestic relations, and as to descent and distribution, it is used strictly as the correlative of “parent,” and means a son or daughter considered as in relation with the father or mother. (2) In the law of negligence, and in laws for the protection of children, etc., it is used as the CHILD 197 CHIROGRAPH opposite of “adult,” and means the young of the human species, (generally under the age of puberty,) without any reference to parentage and without distinction of sex.



Legal definitions of murder:

Murder occurs when one human being unlawfully kills another human being. See Homicide. The precise legal definition of murder varies by jurisdiction. Most states distinguish between different degrees of murder. Some other states base their murder laws on the Model Penal Code.

Common Law Murder
At common law, murder was defined as killing another human being with malice aforethought. Malice aforethought is a legal term of art, that encompasses the following types of murder:

"Intent-to-kill murder"
"Grievous-bodily-harm murder" - Killing someone in an attack intended to cause them grievous bodily harm. For example, if the defendant fatally stabbed the victim, even if the defendant only intended to wound the victim, the defendant would still be liable for murder.
"Felony-murder" - Killing someone while in the process of committing a felony. Note that at common law, there were few felonies, and all carried the death penalty. For example, at common law, robbery was a felony. So if a robber accidentally killed someone during a robbery, the robber could be executed.
"Depraved heart murder" - Killing someone in a way that demonstrates a callous disregard for the value of human life. For example, if a person intentionally fires a gun into a crowded room, and someone dies, the person could be convicted of depraved heart murder.


So, it would appear that, legally, a fetus is a child. However, since abortion IS legal, it is not technically murder by some definitions. Unless you go with the common law definition.

I agree with the legal definition, especially "the young of the human species". I would interpret murder using the Common Law definition.

Argue away.

All this time and all that was needed to overturn RvW was a dictionary. Glory b.

 

[luthervol]

This all revolves around each person's definition of "murder" and "child". We will not all agree on either.


Child
noun: child; plural noun: children
a young human being below the age of puberty or below the legal age of majority.

synonyms: youngster, young one, little one, boy, girl; More
a son or daughter of any age.

an immature or irresponsible person.

a person who has little or no experience in a particular area.

the descendants of a family or people.



Murder
noun: murder; plural noun: murders

the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

INFORMAL
a very difficult or unpleasant task or experience.

verb
verb: murder; 3rd person present: murders; past tense: murdered; past participle: murdered; gerund or present participle: murdering

kill (someone) unlawfully and with premeditation.



Legal definition of child:
This word has two meanings in law: (1) In the law of the domestic relations, and as to descent and distribution, it is used strictly as the correlative of “parent,” and means a son or daughter considered as in relation with the father or mother. (2) In the law of negligence, and in laws for the protection of children, etc., it is used as the CHILD 197 CHIROGRAPH opposite of “adult,” and means the young of the human species, (generally under the age of puberty,) without any reference to parentage and without distinction of sex.



Legal definitions of murder:

Murder occurs when one human being unlawfully kills another human being. See Homicide. The precise legal definition of murder varies by jurisdiction. Most states distinguish between different degrees of murder. Some other states base their murder laws on the Model Penal Code.

Common Law Murder
At common law, murder was defined as killing another human being with malice aforethought. Malice aforethought is a legal term of art, that encompasses the following types of murder:

"Intent-to-kill murder"
"Grievous-bodily-harm murder" - Killing someone in an attack intended to cause them grievous bodily harm. For example, if the defendant fatally stabbed the victim, even if the defendant only intended to wound the victim, the defendant would still be liable for murder.
"Felony-murder" - Killing someone while in the process of committing a felony. Note that at common law, there were few felonies, and all carried the death penalty. For example, at common law, robbery was a felony. So if a robber accidentally killed someone during a robbery, the robber could be executed.
"Depraved heart murder" - Killing someone in a way that demonstrates a callous disregard for the value of human life. For example, if a person intentionally fires a gun into a crowded room, and someone dies, the person could be convicted of depraved heart murder.


So, it would appear that, legally, a fetus is a child. However, since abortion IS legal, it is not technically murder by some definitions. Unless you go with the common law definition.

I agree with the legal definition, especially "the young of the human species". I would interpret murder using the Common Law definition.

Argue away.

By your definition a fetus is not a child. Nor is it a human.

 

[Roustabout]

Because a fetus is not an independent living human being.

How does dependence justify abortion?
You’ve not made that argument.
You’ve basically told us how you “felt.”
Newborns are dependent.

 

[Roustabout]

For a "murder" to occur, a human being must be killed by another unlawfully. The argument you deem baseless is that many (including courts) don't share your views that an unviable fetus rises to the level of being a "human." When they are ~>28 weeks it is widely accepted that the fetus becomes viable ex utero. This is why late term abortions are not legal and why your cries of "murder!" are what is, in fact, baseless.

You don't have to like this answer or even agree with it, but its truth isn't diminished by your unwillingness to reconcile it.

Slippery slope. Nazi Germany did notview Jews as humans deserving protection. Slavery is another example.

 

[volfanjustin]

How does dependence justify abortion?
You’ve not made that argument.
You’ve basically told us how you “felt.”
Newborns are dependent.

a lot of old people are dependent, a lot of people with physical and mental problems are dependent, should we be allowed to kill all them also?

 

[luthervol]

How does dependence justify abortion?
You’ve not made that argument.
You’ve basically told us how you “felt.”
Newborns are dependent.

Because the person on whom the dependent is depending gets to make the decisions.
We can go around in circles endlessly and I can guarantee that neither of us will budge from our position.
Society gets to decide. As for now, Roe vs Wade is society's answer, and I completely agree with the answer.

 

[luthervol]

Slippery slope. Nazi Germany did notview Jews as humans deserving protection. Slavery is another example.

It will always be a slippery slope.
Every sperm is sacred?