2020 Presidential Race

#4,001
#4,001
Grand Vol said:
Why is it Democrats are set on destroying the foundations our country was built on and have worked for over two hundred years?
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I don't think Pete, or any democrat for that matter, is trying to destroy the Republic. They are trying to change things so that each individual vote actually matters. Both arguments have good points.
 
#4,002
#4,002
zeppelin128 said:
I don't think Pete, or any democrat for that matter, is trying to destroy the Republic. They are trying to change things so that each individual vote actually matters. Both arguments have good points.
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Supporting the move to abolish the Electoral College is supporting efforts to destroy the Republic as we know it. It's not what the framers of the Constitution wanted, hence they didn't want the popular election to control the nation's destiny and didn't include that in the Constitution.

Just admit it's a temper tantrum move by the left because they don't like the results of a couple of elections. Furthermore, politicians blurting this out at rallies is nothing more than pandering to the base that is ignorant of how our Republic was founded and why.
 
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#4,003
#4,003
Grand Vol said:
Supporting the move to abolish the Electoral College is supporting efforts to destroy the Republic as we know it. It's not what the framers of the Constitution wanted, hence they didn't want the popular election to control the nation's destiny and didn't include that in the Constitution.

Just admit it's a temper tantrum move by the left because they don't like the results of a couple of elections. Furthermore, politicians blurting this out at rallies is nothing more than pandering to the base that is ignorant of how our Republic was founded and why.
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I said both sides have good points. I personally don't think we should get rid of the electoral college. Just saying there are good arguments for both sides of the debate. It isn't a temper tantrum, those that do not support the electoral college have valid concerns. I will agree that politicians will pander to people for votes. Doesn't matter the letter behind their name, that is what they do.
No one is destroying the Republic by discussing pop vote for President. Ease up.
 
#4,004
#4,004
zeppelin128 said:
I said both sides have good points. I personally don't think we should get rid of the electoral college. Just saying there are good arguments for both sides of the debate. It isn't a temper tantrum, those that do not support the electoral college have valid concerns. I will agree that politicians will pander to people for votes. Doesn't matter the letter behind their name, that is what they do.
No one is destroying the Republic by discussing pop vote for President. Ease up.
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What is the foundation of our Republic? The Constitution. Hence, trying to change the fundamental election procedures of this nation because they don't like it when their chosen one loses is attempting to destroy the Republic.
 
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#4,005
#4,005
Grand Vol said:
Why is it Democrats are set on destroying the foundations our country was built on and have worked for over two hundred years?
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Several things, the main one and this was pushed by barry and he won on it so now the dems feel empowered. They feel we are too big, too rich and too powerful and need to be brought back down to size so we are closer to 3rd world countries
 
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#4,006
#4,006
zeppelin128 said:
This is true, extremes are bad, on either side of the spectrum. I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't think any Democrat running is a bloodthirsty, hardcore socialist like most on the board think. Some are a little more socialist than others, but even they are "socialist-lite" compared to the rest of the world.
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At some point you have to recognize that even though we arent as left as the rest of the world we still attract people from all over the more socialized world.

Either it's not that great being socialized, or America is just better. And I dont know why you would want to change us to a lesser status. But that does seem to be the point of socialism, round everyone down to the lowest common denominator
 
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#4,007
#4,007
zeppelin128 said:
Yep, he wants to raise taxes on the wealthy and corporations. Not on the middle class.

Republicans already stacked SCOTUS by refusing to consider Obama's nominee, Garland. Pete's views on the Supreme Court are a bit more nuanced than just stacking the court. He likes the idea of expanding the court to 15 justices: five justices are appointed by Democratic presidents, five are appointed by Republican presidents, and then those 10 justices must unanimously agree on appointing the five additional justices, who would come from the appellate bench.
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Wealthy is more thank 100k
 
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#4,011
#4,011
Grand Vol said:
What is the foundation of our Republic? The Constitution. Hence, trying to change the fundamental election procedures of this nation because they don't like it when their chosen one loses is attempting to destroy the Republic.
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I think you would see it differently if Republicans were denied their place at the head.
 
#4,012
#4,012
LouderVol said:
At some point you have to recognize that even though we arent as left as the rest of the world we still attract people from all over the more socialized world.

Either it's not that great being socialized, or America is just better. And I dont know why you would want to change us to a lesser status. But that does seem to be the point of socialism, round everyone down to the lowest common denominator
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Again, there are many, many socialist policies in play in the US. An old white dude says we need to be a bit more socialist. The Republic isn't going to fall because Bernie decided to incorporate universal health care in his platform.
No one wants to "lessen" the US. Argue policy, not this idiocy that Obama and Democrats want to destroy America. It is foolish.
 
#4,013
#4,013
zeppelin128 said:
I think you would see it differently if Republicans were denied their place at the head.
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I think I would realize the Constitution was written by wiser men than we currently have holding or running for office. And I would realize they had a good thing going even though my side didn't "win."

Again, it's a temper tantrum of epic proportions.
 
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#4,014
#4,014
Grand Vol said:
What many don't realize is as soon as the "wealthy" are being taxed and "paying their fair share" the politicians move on to the next class of people that "have" and start taxing them for the "have nots."
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Obama never did this, neither did Bush or Trump. No one is going to touch the third rail of politics.
 
#4,016
#4,016
zeppelin128 said:
I think every politician panders to groups, it is how they get votes. I don't think any Democrat would wreck the economy, there will still be divided government more than likely with a Republican Senate.

It is Biden's to lose right now, but a lot can happen in the next several months. Harris is a strong candidate, she will do better than you think.
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Bernie isn’t a Democrat 😉
 
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#4,017
#4,017
zeppelin128 said:
Again, there are many, many socialist policies in play in the US. An old white dude says we need to be a bit more socialist. The Republic isn't going to fall because Bernie decided to incorporate universal health care in his platform.
No one wants to "lessen" the US. Argue policy, not this idiocy that Obama and Democrats want to destroy America. It is foolish.
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Policy of spending trillions we dont have could very well destroy us. Or at least put us in a worse place.

Iirc we are close to the same age. In our life time, at current rate of spending growth, not even accounting for more socialized programs, we are going to have to borrow to pay our interest on the debt. That will require something to happen, something not good.

Not the end of the US but you will see some major changes.

What worries me is making people so dependent on the government than when/if there is a big stop to the government people are going to be helpless. In my world making people dependent on one thing is not a good thing. Instead of it being coal miners left behind by the march of time it will be the people left out in the cold by the government.
 
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#4,019
#4,019
zeppelin128 said:
Obama actually ran the government well. It is an insult to include him in Trump debates.
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Uhm what? His biggest policy item literally ignored the other half. Then you have him ruling with a pen and phone.

He pushed any number of half baked agendas thru just to say he did something. Things like the Paris Accords, taking unvetted refugees, even the public interface part of ACA was a disaster pushed way too soon. In most of those cases the half baked policies were actually worse than the problem.

If you just mean he had less turnover of cabinet staff, then yeah it's better run. But it was still the same level of idiots and flunkies you find in DC for any president.
 
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#4,021
#4,021
zeppelin128 said:
I don't think Pete, or any democrat for that matter, is trying to destroy the Republic. They are trying to change things so that each individual vote actually matters. Both arguments have good points.
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Going to a popular vote would in essence mean we are no longer a republic. We would be a soon to fail democracy. Need proof? Look how things have gotten worsened since the passage of the 17th amendment.
 
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#4,022
#4,022
hog88 said:
Going to a popular vote would in essence mean we are no longer a republic. We would be a soon to fail democracy. Need proof? Look how things have gotten worsened since the passage of the 17th amendment.
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If they do away with the Electoral Vote the Red States need to declare their independence and brake away from the United States because the Northeast and West Coast would decide all the Presidential Elections for the Democrats.
 
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#4,024
#4,024
LouderVol said:
Policy of spending trillions we dont have could very well destroy us. Or at least put us in a worse place.

Iirc we are close to the same age. In our life time, at current rate of spending growth, not even accounting for more socialized programs, we are going to have to borrow to pay our interest on the debt. That will require something to happen, something not good.

Not the end of the US but you will see some major changes.

What worries me is making people so dependent on the government than when/if there is a big stop to the government people are going to be helpless. In my world making people dependent on one thing is not a good thing. Instead of it being coal miners left behind by the march of time it will be the people left out in the cold by the government.
Click to expand...
Trump has ran up the deficit far more than Obama could ever dream. Direct your issues toward him, since he has signed off on bills that explode the deficit.

We might be the same age, I don't recall. I fully expect nothing from the government in my later years.

It has always been about a hand up, not a hand out. This is Lord Red Hat's thing now.
 
#4,025
#4,025
zeppelin128 said:
Yep, he wants to raise taxes on the wealthy and corporations. Not on the middle class.

Republicans already stacked SCOTUS by refusing to consider Obama's nominee, Garland. Pete's views on the Supreme Court are a bit more nuanced than just stacking the court. He likes the idea of expanding the court to 15 justices: five justices are appointed by Democratic presidents, five are appointed by Republican presidents, and then those 10 justices must unanimously agree on appointing the five additional justices, who would come from the appellate bench.
Click to expand...

Raising taxes on the wealthy and corporations just raises the cost of living and lowers the employment prospects for the middle class. And (just look at the AMT) those taxes on the wealthy trickle down to the middle class after a few years.

His SCOTUS plan is absolute lunacy. He would be giving almost absolute power to the judiciary.
 
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