Gun control debate (merged)

#8,427
#8,427
evillawyer said:
So it sounds like an unarmed guy actually stopped the synagogue shooter. The armed guy just shot at him as he fled.

Rabbi praises off-duty border agent who fired at California synagogue shooter

"The sheriff of San Diego County, Bill Gore, told reporters on Saturday the officer fired as the gunman was fleeing, missing the suspect but hitting his car.


Police said on Sunday that Oscar Stewart, a 51-year-old worshipper from nearby Rancho Bernardo, saved lives by rushing at the gunman and chasing him to his car outside."
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What?
 
#8,432
#8,432
Okay, unrelated but related story here...

A while back, we are contacted by the USMS, who I have a lot of respect for. They have a warrant on a resident of our county for FTA on a federal charge. So we go to see if we can make contact, and we are geared up for trouble, as this dude has already done time for manslaughter; recently released; and we find him.

On an oxygen machine in his Mom's house. Minus one lung from getting shanked in prison. He's still dangerous, but he isn't going anywhere on one lung and 25 feet of oxygen line. Further research reveals that the warrant is for FTA while he was in prison on the manslaughter charge. I'm not a Sergeant anymore (part-timers cannot hold rank), but I was the senior deputy there, so it fell to me to make the call. I spoke by phone with the DUSM who had the case. Explained everything to him. Let this guy turn himself in Monday. Bull**** warrant. He's not going anywhere. Going to need medical clearance, and then on oxygen while in jail. He wouldn't hear of it. Federal fugitive, blah, blah, blah.

Screw it. I told him "When I have the original warrant in hand, I'll act on it. Until then, we're 10-8. You know where he is. You want him, you come get him." And we left. Sheriff backed me when the DUSM raised hell. They came and picked him up Monday. No chicken feathers in my back seat. And yeah, the charge was later dropped.

I still hold the USMS in high regard. One bad apple ruineth not the cart.
 
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#8,435
#8,435
luthervol said:
No one has the religious freedom to sacrifice babies as a ritual.
The press does not have the freedom to produce child pornography.
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That's because it infringes on someone elses LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS that's what all of this falls back on. It isnt hard to understand. Owning a gun does not do that. Having various firearms, does not do that. The thing you are trying to prevent is already illegal, shooting someone without defense being the motive, because it infringes on someone elses LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. Child porn infringes on the childs Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as they cannot contractually consent to it and often is a result of kidnapping. it's honestly not hard
 
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#8,436
#8,436
utvols88 said:
That's because it infringes on someone elses LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS that's what all of this falls back on. It isnt hard to understand. Owning a gun does not do that. Having various firearms, does not do that. The thing you are trying to prevent is already illegal, shooting someone without defense being the motive, because it infringes on someone elses LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. Child porn infringes on the childs Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as they cannot contractually consent to it and often is a result of kidnapping. it's honestly not hard
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Living in a society with 390,000,000 guns and 40,000 gun deaths per year is viewed by an increasing number as a direct infringement of their life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.
Maybe you can view it like the recent forced quarantines of people with mumps. Their individual rights are overridden by the rights of the larger group of individuals making up society..
 
#8,437
#8,437
luthervol said:
Living in a society with 390,000,000 guns and 40,000 gun deaths per year is viewed by an increasing number as a direct infringement of their life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.
Maybe you can view it like the recent forced quarantines of people with mumps. Their individual rights are overridden by the rights of the larger group of individuals making up society..
Click to expand...
“Society” has no rights as has been pointed out to you man times. Individuals have rights. And inanimate objects don’t interfere with an individual’s rights. Only another individual or individuals can do that.
 
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#8,438
#8,438
luthervol said:
Living in a society with 390,000,000 guns and 40,000 gun deaths per year is viewed by an increasing number as a direct infringement of their life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.
Maybe you can view it like the recent forced quarantines of people with mumps. Their individual rights are overridden by the rights of the larger group of individuals making up society..
Click to expand...
Can you provide me the right that states we have the natural right to knowingly and directly expose the public to a contagious disease? People with contagious diseases that directly impact other peoples life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is not the same as people with an inanimate object that is guaranteed to the citizens to deter tyranny and, if necessary, combat it. Its bigger than you. It's your children. It's their children and the children after that which must live in this world after us.

If you associate owning an inanimate object with a direct infringement on your life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, then your delusion on personal liberties extend past your person. It includes your direct right to those three. DIRECT. Attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon, murder, etc. covers your protection of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Your right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness does not include your feelings.

I feel bad for you if you are comfortable laying the foundation that ushers in a tyrant that the people cannot overthrow. That, sir, is where you lose this argument.
 
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#8,439
#8,439
luthervol said:
Living in a society with 390,000,000 guns and 40,000 gun deaths per year is viewed by an increasing number as a direct infringement of their life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.
Maybe you can view it like the recent forced quarantines of people with mumps. Their individual rights are overridden by the rights of the larger group of individuals making up society..
Click to expand...
How are people committing suicide an infringement on my life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness?
 
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#8,440
#8,440
NorthDallas40 said:
“Society” has no rights as has been pointed out to you man times. Individuals have rights. And inanimate objects don’t interfere with an individual’s rights. Only another individual or individuals can do that.
Click to expand...
Here's a clue....free of charge.
Society is plural for individual. A group of individuals form what we call a society.
The rights of many often (but not always) outweigh the rights of one.
The right of the person with measles to walk around freely are outweighed by the rights of others to not be exposed.
The right of the person with a cold to walk around freely outweighs the rights of others to not be exposed.
These are the types of decisions made be a collective group of individuals, or more commonly known as a society.
 
#8,441
#8,441
luthervol said:
Here's a clue....free of charge.
Society is plural for individual. A group of individuals form what we call a society.
The rights of many often (but not always) outweigh the rights of one.
The right of the person with measles to walk around freely are outweighed by the rights of others to not be exposed.
The right of the person with a cold to walk around freely outweighs the rights of others to not be exposed.
These are the types of decisions made be a collective group of individuals, or more commonly known as a society.
Click to expand...
There is not a single case where society is a valid substitute for individual when it comes to natural rights. This is you pushing your idiot pure democracy popular vote agenda to trample individual’s rights again. Lucky for us our founding fathers were much more intelligent than you are.
 
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#8,443
#8,443
utvols88 said:
Can you provide me the right that states we have the natural right to knowingly and directly expose the public to a contagious disease? People with contagious diseases that directly impact other peoples life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is not the same as people with an inanimate object that is guaranteed to the citizens to deter tyranny and, if necessary, combat it. Its bigger than you. It's your children. It's their children and the children after that which must live in this world after us.

If you associate owning an inanimate object with a direct infringement on your life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, then your delusion on personal liberties extend past your person. It includes your direct right to those three. DIRECT. Attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon, murder, etc. covers your protection of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Your right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness does not include your feelings.

I feel bad for you if you are comfortable laying the foundation that ushers in a tyrant that the people cannot overthrow. That, sir, is where you lose this argument.
Click to expand...
The same people who think Trump is a wannabe tyrant controlled by the Russians also want only the military and police having guns.
 
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#8,447
#8,447
luthervol said:
Here's a clue....free of charge.
Society is plural for individual. A group of individuals form what we call a society.
The rights of many often (but not always) outweigh the rights of one.
The right of the person with measles to walk around freely are outweighed by the rights of others to not be exposed.
The right of the person with a cold to walk around freely outweighs the rights of others to not be exposed.
These are the types of decisions made be a collective group of individuals, or more commonly known as a society.
Click to expand...
Yet you don't argue for this, you argue for the minority having rights that outweigh the majority. Why the measles vs a cold? Depending on age or immune system function a cold could be deadly.
 
#8,450
#8,450
luthervol said:
Here's a clue....free of charge.
Society is plural for individual. A group of individuals form what we call a society.
The rights of many often (but not always) outweigh the rights of one.
The right of the person with measles to walk around freely are outweighed by the rights of others to not be exposed.
The right of the person with a cold to walk around freely outweighs the rights of others to not be exposed.
These are the types of decisions made be a collective group of individuals, or more commonly known as a society.
Click to expand...
How about the rights of those in Venezuela? Bernie's dream 7 years ago. Now case and point of why we should never give up our guns.
 
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