Recruiting Forum Football Talk [RIP 9.3.2019]

[jakez4ut]

Even though we return a lot of players we still don’t have the talent to win more than 7 games.

probably not. we won't know what we got, til we see it. banking on year two development being the key, and a tad lighter schedule.

we'll see. but the overall talent issue is pho real.

 

[Kingston Vol]

well, i think obviously that's bad. and it can't continue. the good news, he's aware of it and took steps to fix it.

as for the talent issue.....i hate that it keeps coming up, but this narrative that talent was "fine" the last couple years was a total farce. and it keeps getting proven over and over again. siap a long time ago about those two top 10 classes butch brought in, but well over 1/2 of those players never finished their career here, and it wasn't because they all left early for the NFL. those two classes, except for a select few, were total shams.

I don’t think it’s unforgivable to lose a team in the first year. In fact, that’s pretty common. The fact that he’ll admit it is good and tells me he’s learning.

On the talent thing - I think last years team had more talent than the record indicated (2017 did too, obviously.)

But the most talented didn’t always leave it all on the field. And we had what I would describe as a suped-up Cincinnati team playing SEC football. So there was talent, but it didn’t fit what Pruitt wanted to do.

 

[zhangliao04]

That report doesn't surprise me at all. With Pruitt being a new HC of course he was gonna to have to learn on the job. He was going to make mistakes and I'm glad he is learning from them. Secondly, a lot of players also didn't have the mental toughness that is required for football which is why you saw the team fall apart especially against Mizzou and Vandy.

 

[jakez4ut]

I don’t think it’s unforgivable to lose a team in the first year. In fact, that’s pretty common. The fact that he’ll admit it is good and tells me he’s learning.

On the talent thing - I think last years team had more talent than the record indicated (2017 did too, obviously.)

But the most talented didn’t always leave it all on the field. And we had what I would describe as a suped-up Cincinnati team playing SEC football. So there was talent, but it didn’t fit what Pruitt wanted to do.

i'm just over the talent conversation. we keep having it, and we keep losing. development, wrong fit, whatever....3 years of 0 draft picks is kinda telling. i mean, that's not even having guys that have the measurables. we didn't even have anyone invited to the combine.........no one even LOOKED the part...........

the rest, i agree....i'm encouraged by that level of honesty, about his own lessons learned. that's a good thing.

 

[Kingston Vol]

i'm just over the talent conversation. we keep having it, and we keep losing. development, wrong fit, whatever....3 years of 0 draft picks is kinda telling. i mean, that's not even having guys that have the measurables. we didn't even have anyone invited to the combine.........no one even LOOKED the part...........

the rest, i agree....i'm encouraged by that level of honesty, about his own lessons learned. that's a good thing.

I really do think we’re in good hands right now. Pruitt gets it and while there might be growing pains I’m happy to let this staff as a whole get through them.

There’s a different feeling over there than there has been since maybe like ‘06 or ‘07. Everyone is very confident in the trajectory.

 

[GoVolsDR]

Who else is excited for legalized online sports gambling in TN? It'll be nice not to have to pay the juice you have to on sites like Bovada. Hopefully we have the platforms up and running by the time CFB starts.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Here's the thing...according to 247

OLine: Average Star Rating 3.7
Trey - 5*, Morris - 5*, Wright - 5*
Kennedy - 4*, Carvin - 4*, Lampley - 4*, R. Johnson - 4*
McBride - 3*, Akporoghene - 3*, J. Johnson - 3*, Lane - 3*, Locklear - 3*, Calbert - 3*, Tatum - 3*, Niehaus - 3*

USC's Average Star Rating is 3.3, one reason I hate this BS narrative that we don't have the talent. Other than Alabama and Georgia there aren't many teams with more stars sitting on their roster DESPITE how badly we've performed on the field. I guarantee that if we had hired a Jimbo Fisher type last season wouldn't have been a 5-7 season. Nothing against Pruitt, I love the guy but he's still a first year coach who was learning on the job.

My point is that it all comes down to coaching, this season and beyond. Enough high level recruiting has happened to be competitive in the SEC. Since 2015 we're averaging a class ranking of 13.6 only 2 other SEC East teams have averaged better (Georgia 3.6 & Florida 13.4). Yet in those 4 seasons our record against the east is 10-14, And 5 of our 10 wins came in 2015, arguably Butch's best season a total of 17 points in our 4 losses that year all by 1 possession.

So we've recruited on the same level as Florida on average it's not the players...it just isn't, if Kentucky can go 7-6, 7-6, and 10-3 while averaging 34.6 in recruiting ranking, no excuse for us to not win a minimum of 7 games.

Year 1 to Year 2 in SEC play
Stoops 2-10 to 5-7
Mason 3-9 to 4-8
Odom 4-8 to 7-6
Muschamp 6-7 to 9-4
Mullen 5-7 to 9-4 (at MSU)
Bielema 3-9 to 7-6 (at Arkansas)

It's not unrealistic at all to believe Pruitt can go from 5-7 to 7-5 or better, with the talent on the roster based on the ratings he has a leg up on year 2 compared to these other coaches. Since none of them had anywhere near the same level of existing talent on roster as UT does.

 

[jakez4ut]

I really do think we’re in good hands right now. Pruitt gets it and while there might be growing pains I’m happy to let this staff as a whole get through them.

There’s a different feeling over there than there has been since maybe like ‘06 or ‘07. Everyone is very confident in the trajectory.

oh, i agree. i've no issue with Pruitt and co. lilke the direction we're headed.

it's gonna be a slow turner though. this thing ain't turning on a dime.....the cupboard isn't as full as so many thought.

 

[Big Gucci Sosa]

 

[SmokinBob]

I think that shows that they don't though. 52%, the majority, were ranked 3-star or less, or not even deemed rank-worthy.

I'd like to know how many 4/5 star players that declared, weren't selected...

 

[jakez4ut]

I'd like to know how many 4/5 star players that declared, weren't selected...

saw a tweet the other day abou tthis, and i think it was only 5*'s....and keep in mind some are still in college, but it wasn't many...maybe 6? relatively speaking, that's probably 20-25% of a given's class's 5*'s.....

but yeah, i think it'd be interesting to track that # over a 4 year time frame....see how it shakes out.

 

[SmokinBob]

Did any of you all read this story on Niedermeyer by Ubben? The Athletic does let you read 3 stories for free each month and I used the last free one on it and it was excellent. Not sure how I got the free 3 a month but maybe it was from downloading the athletic app? 3 is better than nothing and Ubben is very good.

I read it and it was an excellent article. This is the only subscription I have. These guys are actually very good reporters. They do real research for their articles, unlike writers for other services that just see a tweet and write a paragraph or two that essentially rephrases the tweet.

 

[MwB]

Here's the thing...according to 247

OLine: Average Star Rating 3.7
Trey - 5*, Morris - 5*, Wright - 5*
Kennedy - 4*, Carvin - 4*, Lampley - 4*, R. Johnson - 4*
McBride - 3*, Akporoghene - 3*, J. Johnson - 3*, Lane - 3*, Locklear - 3*, Calbert - 3*, Tatum - 3*, Niehaus - 3*

USC's Average Star Rating is 3.3, one reason I hate this BS narrative that we don't have the talent. Other than Alabama and Georgia there aren't many teams with more stars sitting on their roster DESPITE how badly we've performed on the field. I guarantee that if we had hired a Jimbo Fisher type last season wouldn't have been a 5-7 season. Nothing against Pruitt, I love the guy but he's still a first year coach who was learning on the job.

My point is that it all comes down to coaching, this season and beyond. Enough high level recruiting has happened to be competitive in the SEC. Since 2015 we're averaging a class ranking of 13.6 only 2 other SEC East teams have averaged better (Georgia 3.6 & Florida 13.4). Yet in those 4 seasons our record against the east is 10-14, And 5 of our 10 wins came in 2015, arguably Butch's best season a total of 17 points in our 4 losses that year all by 1 possession.

So we've recruited on the same level as Florida on average it's not the players...it just isn't, if Kentucky can go 7-6, 7-6, and 10-3 while averaging 34.6 in recruiting ranking, no excuse for us to not win a minimum of 7 games.

Year 1 to Year 2 in SEC play
Stoops 2-10 to 5-7
Mason 3-9 to 4-8
Odom 4-8 to 7-6
Muschamp 6-7 to 9-4
Mullen 5-7 to 9-4 (at MSU)
Bielema 3-9 to 7-6 (at Arkansas)

It's not unrealistic at all to believe Pruitt can go from 5-7 to 7-5 or better, with the talent on the roster based on the ratings he has a leg up on year 2 compared to these other coaches. Since none of them had anywhere near the same level of existing talent on roster as UT does.

You are not taking into consideration that just because someone is rated a four star or higher does not mean they will be successful. Some guys do not live up to expectations. You also include a lot of guys that did not play in the offensive line "star rating". Go back and watch the Charotte game, Tennessee does not have the talent right now. Hopefully, that is starting to change though.

 

[jakez4ut]

Here's the thing...according to 247

OLine: Average Star Rating 3.7
Trey - 5*, Morris - 5*, Wright - 5*
Kennedy - 4*, Carvin - 4*, Lampley - 4*, R. Johnson - 4*
McBride - 3*, Akporoghene - 3*, J. Johnson - 3*, Lane - 3*, Locklear - 3*, Calbert - 3*, Tatum - 3*, Niehaus - 3*

USC's Average Star Rating is 3.3, one reason I hate this BS narrative that we don't have the talent. Other than Alabama and Georgia there aren't many teams with more stars sitting on their roster DESPITE how badly we've performed on the field. I guarantee that if we had hired a Jimbo Fisher type last season wouldn't have been a 5-7 season. Nothing against Pruitt, I love the guy but he's still a first year coach who was learning on the job.

My point is that it all comes down to coaching, this season and beyond. Enough high level recruiting has happened to be competitive in the SEC. Since 2015 we're averaging a class ranking of 13.6 only 2 other SEC East teams have averaged better (Georgia 3.6 & Florida 13.4). Yet in those 4 seasons our record against the east is 10-14, And 5 of our 10 wins came in 2015, arguably Butch's best season a total of 17 points in our 4 losses that year all by 1 possession.

So we've recruited on the same level as Florida on average it's not the players...it just isn't, if Kentucky can go 7-6, 7-6, and 10-3 while averaging 34.6 in recruiting ranking, no excuse for us to not win a minimum of 7 games.

Year 1 to Year 2 in SEC play
Stoops 2-10 to 5-7
Mason 3-9 to 4-8
Odom 4-8 to 7-6
Muschamp 6-7 to 9-4
Mullen 5-7 to 9-4 (at MSU)
Bielema 3-9 to 7-6 (at Arkansas)

It's not unrealistic at all to believe Pruitt can go from 5-7 to 7-5 or better, with the talent on the roster based on the ratings he has a leg up on year 2 compared to these other coaches. Since none of them had anywhere near the same level of existing talent on roster as UT does.

it's one cycle. one.

the majority of this roster is not as good as people want to believe it is. you can throw up all of these ratings as evidence, but it simpley doesn't matter.

and the recruititng rankings from the past few years definitely don't matter when you consider how many of the kids from some of those classses aren't even on the roster anymore.

from that #4 2015 class....17 players transferred or retired. that's supposed to be our veterans, or at least the kids that had the chance to get drafted in year 3 or 4.

we have 3 left on the roster, and 1 of those is a LS. 3 went to the NFL. that's it.

sick of "with the talent we have" stuff......the reality...."with the talent we have" we went 4-8 and 5-7. that's where we are.

not aimed at you personally...just sick of this discussion in general. i thnk we can go 7-5, but that's due to 2 things: 1. the schedule is a little lighter and 2. counting on some development in year 2. it's got nothing to do with us being able to out talent anyone at this point.

 

[SmokinBob]

Is this what you are looking for?

Looking at how the 2014 recruiting class fared in the draft:



And the 2013 recruiting class:



How recruiting rankings fare projecting future NFL Draft picks

How many of the 5 or 4 star players selected in either of those draft years were from a later class (left early for the draft)?

 

[drvenner]

Tweet of the year so far.

 

[drvenner]

Ok morans. I have renewed HBONow. I'll be caught up by this Sunday's episode.

 

[bignewt]

I read it and it was an excellent article. This is the only subscription I have. These guys are actually very good reporters. They do real research for their articles, unlike writers for other services that just see a tweet and write a paragraph or two that essentially rephrases the tweet.

I haven't read the article but me and Neids grew up in the same town in AK. Eagle River isn't exactly isolated.

 

[ChattaTNVol]

You look at those PFF grades for our guys on both sides of the ball from the 2017 season and there were just too many bad grades. Some of those guys improved in 2018 and obviously with our quarterback leading the way, leaping all the way from above average to NFL-ready, some of that improvement was significant. Our receiving corps is our receiving corp. I’m not sure if or how many of those guys can get to the NFL-ready grade but they ought to be able to make very good. I think we have running backs that can get to NFL-ready, Chandler for sure, and probably Feaster as well when he gets here. Wood-Anderson will have to shoulder the load at Tight End but Lowe might end up being an upgrade this year over Eli.

Of course everyone is saying, yeah okay, but what about that offensive line? Granted there’s a few questions but the default answer doesn’t have to be negative. I recently looked at Phil Steele’s review of all the highly touted freshmen offensive linemen in just the last couple of years that started and played at award winning levels in the SEC and the best teams in our league do that not to mention many other teams all over the country. All we have to do is get our average grade up from Bad to Above Average and our offense will be rolling. If we assume Trey Smith plays and can stay healthy all year I’m not sure many people on here will agree on who our starting 5 guys will be this year. We have too many options. That means we have some quality depth so if someone is having a “Bad” game, we have help. There is no way I can see our offensive line being consistently Bad again this year. I forbid it!

On defense this year we’re starting with what will likely be 2 NFL-ready cornerbacks to build around. We’re adding talent at every other position group and in most cases have guys who are returning that will have some measure of improvement. We may know this month as to whether Solomon and Gibbs will get their waivers approved and until I hear otherwise I’m assuming that’s good news. If Warrior sticks at STAR then I’ll be looking for Pruitt/Ansley to make magic happen again this year as they develop our options for the safety spots. I think we can have 5 or 6 guys up front that can be as good or better than the guys we had last year. In the middle we have loads of new talent to augment our returning veterans which will have improved. We just need some more of our freshmen defensive players to have breakout years, similar to the 2 cornerbacks last year, and similar to Barnett, Sutton, Tuttle, and Kirkland in their freshman years. We have a lot of potential for that on this side of the ball. In Phil Steele’s evaluation of freshmen on defense that had tremendous impact their first season the numbers are impressive and at every position group, even in the SEC.

The most important aspect of our improvement this year I think has to be attitude. We have to want to win. We have to expect to win. And we have to give our all every single game all game long to win. jmo.

 

[chargervol]

Here's the thing...according to 247

OLine: Average Star Rating 3.7
Trey - 5*, Morris - 5*, Wright - 5*
Kennedy - 4*, Carvin - 4*, Lampley - 4*, R. Johnson - 4*
McBride - 3*, Akporoghene - 3*, J. Johnson - 3*, Lane - 3*, Locklear - 3*, Calbert - 3*, Tatum - 3*, Niehaus - 3*

USC's Average Star Rating is 3.3, one reason I hate this BS narrative that we don't have the talent. Other than Alabama and Georgia there aren't many teams with more stars sitting on their roster DESPITE how badly we've performed on the field. I guarantee that if we had hired a Jimbo Fisher type last season wouldn't have been a 5-7 season. Nothing against Pruitt, I love the guy but he's still a first year coach who was learning on the job.

My point is that it all comes down to coaching, this season and beyond. Enough high level recruiting has happened to be competitive in the SEC. Since 2015 we're averaging a class ranking of 13.6 only 2 other SEC East teams have averaged better (Georgia 3.6 & Florida 13.4). Yet in those 4 seasons our record against the east is 10-14, And 5 of our 10 wins came in 2015, arguably Butch's best season a total of 17 points in our 4 losses that year all by 1 possession.

So we've recruited on the same level as Florida on average it's not the players...it just isn't, if Kentucky can go 7-6, 7-6, and 10-3 while averaging 34.6 in recruiting ranking, no excuse for us to not win a minimum of 7 games.

Year 1 to Year 2 in SEC play
Stoops 2-10 to 5-7
Mason 3-9 to 4-8
Odom 4-8 to 7-6
Muschamp 6-7 to 9-4
Mullen 5-7 to 9-4 (at MSU)
Bielema 3-9 to 7-6 (at Arkansas)

It's not unrealistic at all to believe Pruitt can go from 5-7 to 7-5 or better, with the talent on the roster based on the ratings he has a leg up on year 2 compared to these other coaches. Since none of them had anywhere near the same level of existing talent on roster as UT does.

I understand this to a degree but I think the reality is rather simple.

I can go buy a purebred racehorse from a winning legacy. But the bottom line is that I have no business training said horse. I can prance him around my property for a season or 2 but he's not winning a thing.

I can hand that horse over to @MoCo_Vol, master racehorse trainer, but he still ain't winning a Derby the next season. Development and conditioning just takes longer after a complete lack of.

Horses be complicated.
What were we talking about?

 

[CAVPUT]

There is definitely precedent for both. The immediate - Saban, Meyer etc..
The false start - McElwain and so on.

I think it's fair to look for progress and improvement, but to expect a coach to work a miracle in year 2/3 isn't very realistic or fair for that matter. This isn't basketball where you can turn things around with 1 or 2 elite prospects. Football needs mature depth and that just takes time.

 

[BigOrangeVols]

We ignored Butch underperforming in year 1 also. That turned out well.

 

[csprig9]

Even though we return a lot of players we still don’t have the talent to win more than 7 games.

Probably shouldn’t have won 5 last year either, especially over aubby and uk. That was a really good uk team. Im still saying 9 is the best case scenario with 6-7 being realistic imo.....
Team will be night and day better this year

 

[drvenner]

Nothing worse than heather. Nothing.

I listened for a few minutes this morning. I have to say it was not awful. It was way better without Heather. Both Tyler and Will are somewhat annoying, but everything about Heather grates on me so much, they seem like they know what they're talking about compared to her.

 

[McGeesPub]

I think it's fair to look for progress and improvement, but to expect a coach to work a miracle in year 2/3 isn't very realistic or fair for that matter. This isn't basketball where you can turn things around with 1 or 2 elite prospects. Football needs mature depth and that just takes time.

Dooley needed more time?