Happy Tax Day!!! TL;DR warning

#52
#52
luthervol said:
Because you're making more money.
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And? Why is it ok to tax a person at a higher rate because they make more money? Seems to discourage working and making money. You are already paying more in tax if you pay the same rate as someone who doesn't earn as much.
 
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#53
#53
LouderVol said:
the numbers I was using in the OP was effective tax rates. so that is what needs to go up by 33% of whatever it currently is.

FWIW the effective average tax rate across all Americans is 14.33%. so the increase would bring that effective rate up to around 18%.

and the most disgusting part is that these numbers only work from right now. if the government keeps growing for the next decade as it did the last decade these numbers look way worse. I think it effectively doubles whatever increase we would see now.

the debt payments are growing faster than anything we are doing. we are going to be backwards/under (I forget the financial term, borrowing to pay off the interest on the debt we owe) on that one thing alone in my life time at this rate.
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I bet many people would entertain a temporary hike in taxes to help payoff debt. I think Americans really come together in times of dire need. The only problem, as you alluded, is there is NO confidence the corrupt would actually use the money to pay debt and there is NO confidence they would keep their word and sunset the hike once debt reduction had been accomplished.
 
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#54
#54
McDad said:
I bet many people would entertain a temporary hike in taxes to help payoff debt. I think Americans really come together in times of dire need. The only problem, as you alluded, is there is NO confidence the corrupt would actually use the money to pay debt and there is NO confidence they would keep their word and sunset the hike once debt reduction had been accomplished.
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None of them can be trusted to cut spending. It's all going to come to a head one day and the bottom is going to drop out. This isn't sustainable for much longer.
 
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#55
#55
BearCat204 said:
How is the Government keeping over half my money over a certain amount not a problem?
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Because they have spent trillions of dollars and sacrificed millions of lives creating a society in which you can earn more than $10 million dollars a year.
 
#57
#57
LouderVol said:
the numbers I was using in the OP was effective tax rates. so that is what needs to go up by 33% of whatever it currently is.

FWIW the effective average tax rate across all Americans is 14.33%. so the increase would bring that effective rate up to around 18%.

and the most disgusting part is that these numbers only work from right now. if the government keeps growing for the next decade as it did the last decade these numbers look way worse. I think it effectively doubles whatever increase we would see now.

the debt payments are growing faster than anything we are doing. we are going to be backwards/under (I forget the financial term, borrowing to pay off the interest on the debt we owe) on that one thing alone in my life time at this rate.
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You are only quoting federal income taxes. What about sales tax, state income tax and property tax? Start adding all of these taxes together and it becomes staggering.
 
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#58
#58
LouderVol said:
because of more work. nothing unfair about that.
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If you think hours worked is strongly correlated to income earned, you are sadly mistaken. There are millions of people working 60-70+ hours a week and yet are barely getting by.
 
#60
#60
BearCat204 said:
I have no words, but understand why no reasonable conversation on fiscal responsibility can be had with you.
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LOL......it is so absurdly naive to think that this country would have evolved to what it is today without the government's direction, assistance, interventions, and laws,.
 
#61
#61
luthervol said:
If you think hours worked is strongly correlated to income earned, you are sadly mistaken. There are millions of people working 60-70+ hours a week and yet are barely getting by.
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I used to work with those people. They all had big houses, expensive cars and boats and their kids had every toy known to man.
 
#62
#62
VolStrom said:
You are only quoting federal income taxes. What about sales tax, state income tax and property tax? Start adding all of these taxes together and it becomes staggering.
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agreed. I did not even attempt to address state or local deficits.
 
#63
#63
luthervol said:
LOL......it is so absurdly naive to think that this country would have evolved to what it is today without the government's direction, assistance, interventions, and laws,.
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This country wasn't built or evolved into what it is today by Government direction, assistance, interventions, and/or laws.


If you are saying the Government should be able to keep half my money if its over 10M, then why not keep half the money from someone making 30K?
 
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#64
#64
luthervol said:
If you think hours worked is strongly correlated to income earned, you are sadly mistaken. There are millions of people working 60-70+ hours a week and yet are barely getting by.
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but you are going to have people working for the same rate of pay making more money just based on hours worked who will likely face a higher bracket than their peers. and you want to punish them.
I would reckon a fair number of those millionaires are actively putting in more than 60 hours a week.

also you have to figure running McDonalds requires a lot more work than flipping burgers, no matter the hours spent. no way they should make the same.
 
#66
#66
luthervol said:
LOL......it is so absurdly naive to think that this country would have evolved to what it is today without the government's direction, assistance, interventions, and laws,.
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At what point is there too much government intervention?
 
#67
#67
LouderVol said:
agreed. I did not even attempt to address state or local deficits.
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Yeah, I got my latest tax appraisal in the mail today, up 10% from 2 years ago. Of course the local politicians need more money for "schools" so they will change the tax rate to make sure they get another 8% and pretend it's a tax cut and suck each other.
 
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#68
#68
82_VOL_83 said:
Do you see a problem with EVERYONE paying at least 13%?
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I could go with that if it was heavily valued by others, but it seems ridiculous to ask a single income family of four barely scraping by on $50 k a year to pay $6,500 in taxes. That would be the equivalent of at least a 70% tax on the top end. I would insist that it be counter balanced with an aggressive graduated scale on the top income earners.
 
#71
#71
luthervol said:
I could go with that if it was heavily valued by others, but it seems ridiculous to ask a single income family of four barely scraping by on $50 k a year to pay $6,500 in taxes. That would be the equivalent of at least a 70% tax on the top end. I would insist that it be counter balanced with an aggressive graduated scale on the top income earners.
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What’s absurd is having a family of four and only earning 50k. Why did you have the kids?
 
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#72
#72
luthervol said:
LOL......it is so absurdly naive to think that this country would have evolved to what it is today without the government's direction, assistance, interventions, and laws,.
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I don't think anybody here is saying or suggesting that there should be no government or no laws. Reductio ad absurdum.

Ultimately do you believe that government is the engine that makes the society go, or are private entities, which generate all the resources that fund the government, make the society go.

If nobody did anything that generated any sort of economic activity, how would the government get its money?
 
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#73
#73
BearCat204 said:
This country wasn't built or evolved into what it is today by Government direction, assistance, interventions, and/or laws.


If you are saying the Government should be able to keep half my money if its over 10M, then why not keep half the money from someone making 30K?
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Because that would be stupid.
30K is barely a livable wage for a single person.
 
#75
#75
LouderVol said:
but you are going to have people working for the same rate of pay making more money just based on hours worked who will likely face a higher bracket than their peers. and you want to punish them.
I would reckon a fair number of those millionaires are actively putting in more than 60 hours a week.

also you have to figure running McDonalds requires a lot more work than flipping burgers, no matter the hours spent. no way they should make the same.
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They're not being punished. Their additional earnings just may move into a higher tax bracket. They could choose to not work the additional hours if the fact that the additional income would be taxed at 18% instead of 15% was intolerable.
 
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