Mueller Report Imminent

#1,609
#1,609
05_never_again said:
The thing about Trump is that outside of his diehard supporters, I think people pretty much agree he's a liar. The big difference is that the left considers much of what he's doing to be beyond the pale, unlike anything we've ever seen before, while much of the right does not. A lot of his most obvious lies have been about stupid things that are of zero importance, like the size of his inauguration crowd. Not all, but much of the criticism of Trump is more or less correct but just hysterical and so over the top. All politicians and presidents lie and have lied about really important things. It isn't beyond the pale.

I heard someone say once that even if you are correct, you will lose the argument if you 1) misrepresent the argument you are arguing against (straw man) or 2) overstate your own argument. The left does a lot of both with Trump.
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Trumps what we call a bullsh!tter. The left is incapable or unable to grasp that.
 
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#1,610
#1,610
luthervol said:
What speaks volumes is that so many people who love their country saw that as not only a viable, but even a preferred outcome.
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So, then, one of two groups is in the right:

A) Basically every American citizen for the past 250 years. This group overthrew tyrannical British oppression, established a limited form of government with a number of checks and balances, maintained individual liberties, and unified to fight bravely to defend itself and other freedom-valuing people around the world. It also respected our elected officials (even in disagreement) and would never hope for such things as an unstable overthrow of power or interference in our democratic process by enemy states.

B) The single generation or so of extreme liberals that are trying to force their fringe ideas, no matter the means. Many of these ideas stand in complete opposition to those of the founders of the country and most every generation since (e.g. surrending of individual liberties, enlarging the government, wealth distribution, barriers to capitalism, and now even clamoring for outright Socialism). They refuse to accept that these ideas are not accepted by the rest of the country and are intolerant of alternative views. When an election is lost, it was unfair. When an investigation finds nothing, it wasn't complete.

Have you ever stopped to consider that you just *might* have been duped?
 
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#1,611
#1,611
kiddiedoc said:
So, then, one of two groups is in the right:

A) Basically every American citizen for the past 250 years. This group overthrew tyrannical British oppression, established a limited form of government with a number of checks and balances, maintained individual liberties, and unified to fight bravely to defend itself and other freedom-valuing people around the world. It also respected our elected officials (even in disagreement) and would never hope for such things as an unstable overthrow of power or interference in our democratic process by enemy states.

B) The single generation or so of extreme liberals that are trying to force their frnge ideas, no matter the means. Many of these ideas stand in complete opposition to those of the founders of the country and most every generation since (e.g. surrending of individual liberties, enlarging the government, wealth distribution, barriers to capitalism, and now even clamoring for outright Socialism). When an election is lost, it was unfair. When an investigation finds nothing, it wasn't complete.

Have you ever stopped to consider that you just *might* have been duped?
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Yes Universal Healthcare is a "Fringe" idea.
 
#1,615
#1,615
kiddiedoc said:
So, then, one of two groups is in the right:

A) Basically every American citizen for the past 250 years. This group overthrew tyrannical British oppression, established a limited form of government with a number of checks and balances, maintained individual liberties, and unified to fight bravely to defend itself and other freedom-valuing people around the world. It also respected our elected officials (even in disagreement) and would never hope for such things as an unstable overthrow of power or interference in our democratic process by enemy states.

B) The single generation or so of extreme liberals that are trying to force their fringe ideas, no matter the means. Many of these ideas stand in complete opposition to those of the founders of the country and most every generation since (e.g. surrending of individual liberties, enlarging the government, wealth distribution, barriers to capitalism, and now even clamoring for outright Socialism). They refuse to accept that these ideas are not accepted by the rest of the country and are intolerant of alternative views. When an election is lost, it was unfair. When an investigation finds nothing, it wasn't complete.

Have you ever stopped to consider that you just *might* have been duped?
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I'm in the 3rd group.
C) People who view the office of POTUS as above being held by an horrendously despicable and amoral person who calls the press the enemy of the people and leads chants of "lock her up" about his political opponents. Those two things alone disqualify an individual from consideration in the minds of millions of Americans. Having a president who says those types of things with no consequence is far more dangerous to the continued greatness of this nation than any desire to see him removed. The acceptance of such conduct by our president is what is truly and ultimately un-American.
 
#1,616
#1,616
LouderVol said:
the 70% tax rate that comes with it is.
the socializing/nationalizing of the health industry is
the loss of freedom and choice is
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You don't have a choice to pay taxes and 70% tax rate, come on you might as well said 99% if you're going to exaggerate.
 
#1,617
#1,617
Mick said:
Yes Universal Healthcare is a "Fringe" idea.
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I actually did not list that as an example, but most practicing physicians have been opposed to it for as long as the idea has existed. It's very simple to look at the example in England for evidence as to why we hold our belief.
 
#1,618
#1,618
kiddiedoc said:
So, then, one of two groups is in the right:

A) Basically every American citizen for the past 250 years. This group overthrew tyrannical British oppression, established a limited form of government with a number of checks and balances, maintained individual liberties, and unified to fight bravely to defend itself and other freedom-valuing people around the world. It also respected our elected officials (even in disagreement) and would never hope for such things as an unstable overthrow of power or interference in our democratic process by enemy states.

B) The single generation or so of extreme liberals that are trying to force their fringe ideas, no matter the means. Many of these ideas stand in complete opposition to those of the founders of the country and most every generation since (e.g. surrending of individual liberties, enlarging the government, wealth distribution, barriers to capitalism, and now even clamoring for outright Socialism). They refuse to accept that these ideas are not accepted by the rest of the country and are intolerant of alternative views. When an election is lost, it was unfair. When an investigation finds nothing, it wasn't complete.

Have you ever stopped to consider that you just *might* have been duped?
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That's unfair, to blame it on this generation. This generation is paying the penalty of a couple of generations of Marxists infiltrating strategic parts of culture and producing the generation we see right now.

It's not a generation thing. It's a Marxist thing.
 
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#1,619
#1,619
05_never_again said:
The thing about Trump is that outside of his diehard supporters, I think people pretty much agree he's a liar. The big difference is that the left considers much of what he's doing to be beyond the pale, unlike anything we've ever seen before, while much of the right does not. A lot of his most obvious lies have been about stupid things that are of zero importance, like the size of his inauguration crowd. Not all, but much of the criticism of Trump is more or less correct but just hysterical and so over the top. All politicians and presidents lie and have lied about really important things. It isn't beyond the pale.

I heard someone say once that even if you are correct, you will lose the argument if you 1) misrepresent the argument you are arguing against (straw man) or 2) overstate your own argument. The left does a lot of both with Trump.
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And we are not always able to agree on what is an important lie. I think Trump has lied about how much money he has donated to charitable causes (including the families of 9/11 victims), most of his supporters don't consider that important. He has lowered the bar for behavior.
 
#1,622
#1,622
PIERS MORGAN: The Russia collusion hoax was a disgraceful fake news witch-hunt that shames all of Trump’s deranged enemies in the media, the FBI and Hollywood and has probably ensured their worst nightmare - his re-election

So it was all fake news…

The entire two-year Russia collusion frenzy was based on an absolute falsehood that Donald Trump and his team had colluded with Russians to fix the 2016 election.

It’s hard to imagine a worse thing to say about someone than that they betrayed their country, that they were traitors to their own people.

Yet that was the charge levelled at Trump in an obsessively unrelenting campaign to bring him down as President.

Today, he stands completely vindicated.

But whilst I am pleased for him that he was finally exonerated of a high crime I never thought he could possibly have committed, my overwhelming feeling today is one of fury that he had to endure such a disgraceful, deceitful and concerted attack on his presidency based on nothing but a fervent desire to destroy him and his family.

The Democrats, led by the demented Adam Schiff, screamed ‘COLLUSION!’ so often I’m amazed their larynxes didn’t explode.

What is far worse is the way so many mainstream US media networks, newspapers and individual journalists fuelled the fake frenzy.

Once revered newspapers like The New York Times and Washington Post are effectively finished as credible purveyors of fair and balanced news.

Cable TV news has arguably been even worse than the press, feeding off every tiny scrap of unsubstantiated Russia-related gossip to drive headlines and ratings.

CNN anchors like Anderson Cooper can’t hide their sneering disdain for Trump, which is entirely their prerogative.

But when, like Cooper, that disdain compels you to spend night after night, month after month, devoting almost your entire ‘news’ show to what has turned out to be a fake news story, your reputation as an unbiased, fair-minded journalist is finished.

Why should any CNN viewer ever trust the likes of Cooper again given how badly he’s burned himself on this bogus Russia collusion story?

At MSNBC, hugely popular anchors like Rachel Maddow pumped out the Russia line with increasingly intense, emotional nightly detail, convincing themselves and their viewers in the process that they were exposing the new Watergate.

The result of this appalling episode in modern American history is that Trump emerges vindicated, emboldened and with a massive stick to beat his many critics in the 2020 election campaign.

I can see him now on the stump, declaring: ‘I delivered on defeating ISIS, I delivered on the economy - and I crushed the fake news attempt to destroy me on Russia collusion.’

It’s a powerful vote-winning cocktail.

Today, I bet that Trump, if nothing serious emerges in any other investigation, will now be re-elected President – and his enemies will have only themselves to blame.
 
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#1,623
#1,623
luthervol said:
I'm in the 3rd group.
C) People who view the office of POTUS as above being held by an horrendously despicable and amoral person who calls the press the enemy of the people and leads chants of "lock her up" about his political opponents. Those two things alone disqualify an individual from consideration in the minds of millions of Americans. Having a president who says those types of things with no consequence is far more dangerous to the continued greatness of this nation than any desire to see him removed. The acceptance of such conduct by our president is what is truly and ultimately un-American.
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39475734401_f486630ff6_b.jpg
 
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#1,624
#1,624
FLVOL_79 said:
Trumps what we call a bullsh!tter. The left is incapable or unable to grasp that.
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This is probably the most succinct and accurate description of Trump that I have ever seen. Congrats! As my brother always said...…………...."you can't bullsh!t a bullshitter." That is why Trump will get even.
 
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#1,625
#1,625
BowlBrother85 said:
And we are not always able to agree on what is an important lie. I think Trump has lied about how much money he has donated to charitable causes (including the families of 9/11 victims), most of his supporters don't consider that important. He has lowered the bar for behavior.
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Yes, that's true.

Lying to the public about his job (e.g., things he's done while in his capacity as President, aspects of pieces of legislation he champions, etc.) I would consider to be "important lies." Iraq WMD was an important lie. "If you like your doctor you can keep it" and how ACA was sold was an important lie. Lies about inaugural crowds (he isn't even in a position to cover that up) or how much money he's donated to charity are lies, and lying is wrong, but I don't really consider to be important. The vast, vast majority of stuff Trump has lied about is over stuff like that.

As @FLVOL_79 said, Trump is the epitome of a bullsh***er. They exaggerate and play fast and loose with facts but do it in a way where you know they are exaggerating and playing fast and loose with facts. He exaggerates, but he knows that you know he's exaggerating. Purposely vague with details and promises unclear and abstract but "great" things, and leaves you to fill in the blanks with your imagination.

Trump is a New York real estate developer who was a celebrity/reality TV star before entering politics. It isn't shocking he behaves this way. To become all indignant and uniquely outraged, as if people who have held this office in the past would have never even considered doing/saying some of the things Trump has, is just kind of silly.
 
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