Comment on 2019 PWOs

[Vol Main]

I do not recall our ever bringing the quantity and quality of PWOs as we see in the 2019 Class. Maybe I am just not up to speed on the history, but this class looks like an entirely new level of recruiting effort.

 

[Halph66]

IMO, this coaching staff does not have the attitude that there is nothing that can be done due to the scholarship limits. It is obvious to me, that they are doing everything that they can, within the rules to get as many players on the practice field and in the weight room for evaluation. It would not surprise me if they find more than one gem in the bunch. They may already know what they have.

I can't help but think that they are offering PWO status to snatch kids up before they go else where and buy themselves time until they can confirm how many scholarships will be available after all the dust settles from transfers, non-qualifiers, and players that are hanging up their cleats, etc.

I like the aggressive attitude and creative thinking. I think the future is bright. GBO!

 

[OrangeMound]

Is there a limit to the amount of PWO’s that a team can maintain on a roster? We have to be to 15 or so now. Also, do PWO’s get trimmed down after Spring/Fall practices?

 

[BigorangeBoy]

Is there a limit to the amount of PWO’s that a team can maintain on a roster? We have to be to 15 or so now. Also, do PWO’s get trimmed down after Spring/Fall practices?

You are allowed a total of 105 to dress for home games, so technically up to 20. They are allowed use of facilities, dining, Thornton Center, etc. - whereas the uninvited walkons that make the cut do not get these benefits

 

[madbamahater]

Vols have some PWOs that will be better than some on scholarship. This will improve competition or they will get beat out and some of these walk-ons will end up on scholly.....prolly

 

[BloodShovel]

Scout team should be significantly better. This should help coaches and players evaluate and prepare at a much higher level during practices. As a former youth coach I believe this will have a great impact on Saturdays! Doing it the right way! CJP

 

[awaitingawin]

I think we will probably start hearing about between 2 to 4 of these from the start of fall camp. I think at least 4 of these has the chance to make the coaches recognize their talents early on. Maybe that many will be seen as depth for the A-team by their soph or junior years. I know I really liked the highlights of a few of the incoming PWO's. Pretty awesome when you think that highly of a PWO class.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

IMO, this coaching staff does not have the attitude that there is nothing that can be done due to the scholarship limits. It is obvious to me, that they are doing everything that they can, within the rules to get as many players on the practice field and in the weight room for evaluation. It would not surprise me if they find more than one gem in the bunch. They may already know what they have.

I can't help but think that they are offering PWO status to snatch kids up before they go else where and buy themselves time until they can confirm how many scholarships will be available after all the dust settles from transfers, non-qualifiers, and players that are hanging up their cleats, etc.

I like the aggressive attitude and creative thinking. I think the future is bright. GBO!

I agree and the Hope Scholarships will help out with the cost of tuition, books, etc.

 

[Orange Studs]

I love this group of guys. They have got to be a hoot to be around.

 

[illinoisvolfan1]

How do the players staying on scholarship but medically “retired” impact numbers?

 

[Devo182]

How do the players staying on scholarship but medically “retired” impact numbers?

They aren't on athletic scholarship, per se, so they don't count toward the 85 is all.

 

[illinoisvolfan1]

They aren't on athletic scholarship, per se, so they don't count toward the 85 is all.

Check. Thanks.

 

[Devo182]

I really believe the new 1-year rule is making a big difference this go around. Foresee every major program to make PWOs more of a priority with this new rule.

Lots of kids will take a 1 year shot and if it doesn't pan out they'll transfer and get a free ride elsewhere. Some diehard local kids and borderline scholarship kids will keep grinding it out.

 

[PoweredByTheT]

You are allowed a total of 105 to dress for home games, so technically up to 20. They are allowed use of facilities, dining, Thornton Center, etc. - whereas the uninvited walkons that make the cut do not get these benefits

So a regular walk-on that makes the cut for the football team.... isn't allowed to:
- Eat with the football team?
- Use the weight room?
- Use tutoring services provided to the rest of the student athletes?

I have a very hard time believing any of those allegations

 

[PoweredByTheT]

I really believe the new 1-year rule is making a big difference this go around. Foresee every major program to make PWOs more of a priority with this new rule.

Lots of kids will take a 1 year shot and if it doesn't pan out they'll transfer and get a free ride elsewhere. Some diehard local kids and borderline scholarship kids will keep grinding it out.

What is the 1 year rule? I may be completely wrong on all of my assumptions, but I'm also a virgin to PWO benefits/rules/etc... could you explain please? I'm sure I'm not the only one haha

 

[Devo182]

So a regular walk-on that makes the cut for the football team.... isn't allowed to:
- Eat with the football team?
- Use the weight room?
- Use tutoring services provided to the rest of the student athletes?

I have a very hard time believing any of those allegations

By no means do I know the in-depth walk-on benefits, but I thought the 105 limit was for any and all walkons. I have never understood a PWO as receiving any additional benefits from a regular walkon. At the same time, they don't have the financial benefits of a scholarship player - so do they get free meals and tutoring? I wouldn't think so. Could they use the weight room? I would expect so.

Just my own perceptions. Hopefully someone with more walkon knowledge can fill us in.

EDIT: It looks like walkons do get unlimited meals and snacks, just like scholarship players do. This is mentioned in 2014 articles when they passed the unlimited food legislation.

I'm most curious if walkons get medical care. When it comes to surgeries, this is a MASSIVE thing.

 

[Devo182]

What is the 1 year rule? I may be completely wrong on all of my assumptions, but I'm also a virgin to PWO benefits/rules/etc... could you explain please? I'm sure I'm not the only one haha

For any potential scholarship athlete, they used to have to have 2 years of residency before getting a scholarship THAT WOULD NOT COUNT TOWARD ANNUAL LIMITS. That has now been reduced to just a single year. I think this is an amazing selling point, especially to in-state kids.

It will be interesting to see how teams use this and if they can even get mid-high 3 stars to pay for 1 year, essentially a "grayshirt plus". You could really stack your roster in interesting ways with the new rule.

 

[PoweredByTheT]

By no means do I know the in-depth walk-on benefits, but I thought the 105 limit was for any and all walkons. I have never understood a PWO as receiving any additional benefits from a regular walkon. At the same time, they don't have the financial benefits of a scholarship player - so do they get free meals and tutoring? I wouldn't think so. Could they use the weight room? I would expect so.

Just my own perceptions. Hopefully someone with more walkon knowledge can fill us in.

EDIT: It looks like walkons do get unlimited meals and snacks, just like scholarship players do. This is mentioned in 2014 articles when they passed the unlimited food legislation.

I'm most curious if walkons get medical care. When it comes to surgeries, this is a MASSIVE thing.

I'd imagine that would be a school responsibility for insurance purposes... I know if I poured my heart out playing a football game for a university, put my young body on the line, and got hurt to where I needed surgery (on the field or in the weight room that I'm apparently not allowed to use, LOL, under the guidance of a trainer provided by the University), I'd certainly sue the multi-mullion dollar entity I played for if they didn't look at it as their obligation to pay for it

I could be wrong but... that seems like an obvious benefit for any student athlete that represents a University

Regardless... that's pretty cool that you can earn a scholarship to a University without using an Initial Counter by just making the team and sticking with it... I imagine, however, that scholly would be subject to being revoked if you didn't maintain your "spot"?

 

[BigorangeBoy]

By no means do I know the in-depth walk-on benefits, but I thought the 105 limit was for any and all walkons. I have never understood a PWO as receiving any additional benefits from a regular walkon. At the same time, they don't have the financial benefits of a scholarship player - so do they get free meals and tutoring? I wouldn't think so. Could they use the weight room? I would expect so.

Just my own perceptions. Hopefully someone with more walkon knowledge can fill us in.

EDIT: It looks like walkons do get unlimited meals and snacks, just like scholarship players do. This is mentioned in 2014 articles when they passed the unlimited food legislation.

I'm most curious if walkons get medical care. When it comes to surgeries, this is a MASSIVE thing.

That is interesting on medical care, you would have to think the University provides coverage if they suffer an injury in practice, etc. I don't see how they could not.

I was not aware that the walkons outside the PWOs were allowed unlimited use of the dining facility, used to be the guys outside the 105 had to pay for their food. They of course can use the weight room, but get zero subsidy for housing. I also understood they have limited access (at best) to the Thornton Center.

 

[kamoshika]

Dec 2014: Meyer and Andersen cited the NCAA rule change permitting schools to give walk-ons unlimited meals and snacks. Before the change this year, walk-ons eating at the training table had to pay the rate deducted from a scholarship player's board allowance for each meal. Meyer said Ohio State walk-on linebacker Joe Burger told him the rule change was saving him $3,000 per semester.

''There were some tough times there where I was scraping change together for some dollar-menu items,'' said Brock Collier, a walk-on offensive lineman at Tennessee from 2010-12. ''That was all part of it then. Now that they've got the rule that you can feed walk-ons, that's awesome. It's something that's well deserved for those guys.'' Colleges still can decide whether to provide those meals and snacks to walk-ons for free. Lavin said he knows of at least four major programs that still require walk-ons to pay for training-table privileges.

...NCAA spokesperson Michelle Hosick said walk-ons have the same access to academic and medical support as scholarship players.
Coaches say walk-ons are treated well

FWIW, the practice roster size limit has increased from 105 to 110; this change went into effect last May.

17.10.2.1.2 Limit on Number of Participants. [FBS/FCS] There is limit of 110 student-athletes who may engage in practice activities prior to the institution’s first day of classes or prior to the fifth day before the day of the institution’s first contest, whichever occurs earlier.

After that, neither the NCAA nor the SEC mandates roster size so you could conceivably carry (and dress out for home games) 50 walk-ons if you wanted to. But there are participation limits for conference games, per SEC bylaws:

The home team may dress all eligible student-athletes in uniform, but only 80 student-athletes may participate in a Conference contest. (The non-participating student-athletes shall dress out at no additional cost to the institution. Non-participating student-athletes shall not receive pre-game meals, overnight lodging or additional game tickets, but may receive a post-game meal provided the post-game meal is served at the stadium. No cash stipend may be provided to non-participating student-athletes for post-game meals away from the stadium.)

The visiting team is limited to a travel squad size of 70 eligible student-athletes.
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2018/0824/2018-19 Bylaws & Commissioner's Regs - Combined.pdf

 

[PoweredByTheT]

That is interesting on medical care, you would have to think the University provides coverage if they suffer an injury in practice, etc. I don't see how they could not.

I was not aware that the walkons outside the PWOs were allowed unlimited use of the dining facility, used to be the guys outside the 105 had to pay for their food. They of course can use the weight room, but get zero subsidy for housing. I also understood they have limited access (at best) to the Thornton Center.

I'm curious if the Thornton Center access is defined by NCAA guidelines or UT guidelines... it seems a little nonsensical to not provide that access. It's like having a huge team of lawyers on your payroll and not letting your lower-level management ask them for law advice

 

[BigorangeBoy]

I'm curious if the Thornton Center access is defined by NCAA guidelines or UT guidelines... it seems a little nonsensical to not provide that access. It's like having a huge team of lawyers on your payroll and not letting your lower-level management ask them for law advice

Good point, but I know access is restricted. Unless something changed very recently, it was for "scholar athlete" use, and was not available to the general student population. But, it appears walk ons are not classified the same as they were in the past.

If a PWO is from the star of TN and has good grades, he can darned near get his education and associated costs covered - except for free housing, game tickets, etc. I'm not sure how that works for kids like Rinke.

 

[engineerVOL]

PWOs come on before school starts. Regular walk ons come aboard first day of classes. Otherwise they’re the same.

I may have completely fabricated that but it sounded good in my head.

 

[PoweredByTheT]

Good point, but I know access is restricted. Unless something changed very recently, it was for "scholar athlete" use, and was not available to the general student population. But, it appears walk ons are not classified the same as they were in the past.

If a PWO is from the star of TN and has good grades, he can darned near get his education and associated costs covered - except for free housing, game tickets, etc. I'm not sure how that works for kids like Rinke.

Like I said... I'm no expert and am mostly going off general logic, personal experience, and googled data haha...

I'm aware that there's an out-of-state tuition waiver that can be granted if the school offers a scholarship of at least $1,000 to a student. I'm curious if PWOs like Rinke had the grades to work something like a partial academic scholarship or if that's even a thing that's available to be on the table for out-of-state PWOs... then there's federal grants like the Pell Grant to supplement (well... slightly, as long as you maintain a C average)... but Undergrad out-of state tuition for Fall 2018 + Spring 2019 at UT was $31,426 ..... compared to $13,006 in-state...

........Post took an extra 5 minutes... Had to call Dad and apologize for being expensive... I hadn't ever looked it up before...

 

[BigorangeBoy]

Like I said... I'm no expert and am mostly going off general logic, personal experience, and googled data haha...

I'm aware that there's an out-of-state tuition waiver that can be granted if the school offers a scholarship of at least $1,000 to a student. I'm curious if PWOs like Rinke had the grades to work something like a partial academic scholarship or if that's even a thing that's available to be on the table for out-of-state PWOs... then there's federal grants like the Pell Grant to supplement (well... slightly, as long as you maintain a C average)... but Undergrad out-of state tuition for Fall 2018 + Spring 2019 at UT was $31,426 ..... compared to $13,006 in-state...

........Post took an extra 5 minutes... Had to call Dad and apologize for being expensive... I hadn't ever looked it up before...

Since Rinke is a non-scholarship athlete, I don't see why he would not be given access to academic funds normally allowed the regular student population (provided you have the grades - which he does given the West Point offer).

Another angle is this for instate versus out of state tuition, but probably does not apply in his case - if a student in GA wants to attend UT and major in Analytics they get to pay instate tuition rates as the UGA system does not offer that major.