bad news that keeps on giving

#77
#77
TNnative said:
If they had fired Butch for cause, the cause would have been made public, kind of like when Donnie Tyndall went away. They would rather pay the money than document the embarrassment. And as to Currie, his buyout is hush money. There is some dirty laundry those in charge don't want hanging on the line. They prefer to cover it in money.
Click to expand...
I don't know off the top of my head what the conditions were concerning CBJ's contract at the end of 2016 season when we just lost to Vandy. We still had a shot at the Sugar Bowl prior to that game and Jones went and hid post game dodging reporters. Hart was already gone and his replacement would eventually take 3-4 months to find,which was Currie. Bottom line at UT there wasn't anyone in the admin. capable of making sports related decisions. It was basically dysfunctional. This gave J.Haslam some pull, so to speak, but look at the dysfunctional Brown's. Someone however made the decision not to pony up the money for Jones to hire an experienced OC as DeBord was leaving. So was Dobb's and Hurd. This is according to Jones but there wasn't an AD in place at the time. IMO the result of that debacle was UT losing big time ground in 6 short months that I feel will take 3 years to recover from. A wise man would have an understudy, typically called an assistant to fill any void immediately should some unexpected incident arise that would impede the current AD's ability to make needed decisions in a timely manner.
To address cause, I can think of 3 scenarios to attempt to fire Jones over. It would be a coin toss as to any rulings coming from such but a chance to whittle the buyout and plus save Jones from public scrutiny. But the gamble would be how future coaches would perceive UT if that approach were pursued. All in all, it's a good idea to have a replacement in line that parallels the current philosophy of the direction the program wants to go in accordance with any predecessor in the Ath. Dept. Lack of a decision maker at anytime has already cost UT once. Should never happen again but who's playing 2nd fiddle to Fulmer now and is the majority on board with whomever it may be? I can't help but feel if something,(God forbid), would happen to Fulmer we'd be right back in the same chaotic position.
 
#78
#78
wmcovol said:
A lot of schools would have investigated the Crowder deal if for no other reason than to negotiate a lower buyout. Tennessee spends money like a drunk sailor in a whorehouse.
Click to expand...
That was one of the 3 that scenarios that I was thinking about going after Jones for cause. An incident occurred over some player talking to the KPD over another player after the other player was charged with a crime. Could have been the Johnson-Williams rape thing, but not sure. Then Jones after one player telling him to get a haircut,etc.....stating that Jones wanted to pull his scholly. The end result would resemble a witch hunt and a lot of hearsay and may not justify pursuing a firing based on cause. It would simply be a bad reflection on the university overall. Bear in mind UT had just gone thru or were still in the process of going thru a title IX civil action.
 
#79
#79
VolsdeepVFL said:
Not surprising that people here dont understand the difference between a deficit and a debt.
Click to expand...
It's equally unsurprising that some people want to puff their chests out and play "smartest kid in the class" because they catch others misusing a term. This is just an internet sports message board.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RollerVol
#80
#80
BowlBrother85 said:
It's equally unsurprising that some people want to puff their chests out and play "smartest kid in the class" because they catch others misusing a term. This is just an internet sports message board.
Click to expand...
My bad big guy thought this was the economist board
 
#81
#81
Frivolous said:
although the link seems to say $65 million, the number is actually a less staggering $6.5 million.

owing $13.8 million in buyout money will do that.
Click to expand...
The accounting used is the reason for the deficiate showing up last year. It requires the University to count the entire amount to be taken from the Athletic account and deposited in another holding account until the payout is completely paid. This can take a number of years , d,epkending on the wording of the contract of the people fired. The report for 2019 should show a profit upwards of 13 million unless some is fired this year. For example, if Holly were to be fired this year, the entire amount of the buyout would show in 2019.
 
#82
#82
VOLINVONORE said:
The accounting used is the reason for the deficiate showing up last year. It requires the University to count the entire amount to be taken from the Athletic account and deposited in another holding account until the payout is completely paid. This can take a number of years , d,epkending on the wording of the contract of the people fired. The report for 2019 should show a profit upwards of 13 million unless some is fired this year. For example, if Holly were to be fired this year, the entire amount of the buyout would show in 2019.
Click to expand...
NM. Response didn't add to thread discussion. Funny though, I take the day off from work and I was going to address the proper way a buyout should be expensed. Thought I would be safe relaxing on Volnation.
 
Last edited:
#83
#83
I still don't know why college coaching contracts haven't gone to majority performance based style. Outside of the Saban's, Dabo's, Urban's, A lot of the other coaches couldn't demand with a straight face that they deserve to be the highest paid coach in the land.

I used this model last year when we were discussing coaching hires, but lets face, every coach that isn't Saban, Dabo, or Urban have a massive ego to be the best. Sure you have a small few who are happy being complacent and collecting a check, but that isn't the norm.

I don't see why a school can't give a coach a contract with a reasonable base salary like 3-4 million and basically write incentives in their contract where if they win the natty, they get so much "bonus" money that they become the highest paid coach "for that year."

I get that coaches want to maximize their earnings in their "prime", but as long as they are good, there will always be openings. I just don't see why schools get locked into huge buyouts when they could take advantage of a coach's ego. I used two examples after Schiano Sunday and then Currie Road Show of Coaches.

At the point when he was fired, I said go with Kiffin or Les Miles with a big assistant pool of cash and make their contracts performance heavy based. Basically, win and make a lot of money in those years and so so results get you paid, but not huge amounts.

Model below:

1-Lane Kiffin at 2 Million (His FAU Salary)
2-Les Miles at 4 Million (Half a million below his LSU Salary when fired)
3-Any Coach at 4 Million salary

SEC title game appearance 500K (League Average is 100K so a 400% increase)
SEC Title another 500K (League Average is 125K so 300% increase)

Bowl Game Appearance 200K (League Average is 100K. After all this is about posting great records)
NY6 bowl game 500K (League Average for BCS/NY6 is 200K so 250% increase)
Playoff appearance 600K (Jimbo/Mullen/Pruitt are newest SEC hires and they average 280K so basically a 100% increase)
Natty Appearance 1.2 Million (Jimbo/Mullen/Pruitt average 380K for an appearance so this would be over a 300% increase)
Natty 4-5 Million (Jimbo/Mullen/Pruitt average 600K - Jimbo gets 1 Million, Mullen 300k, Pruitt 500k)

With the above, any coach who won the natty would easily be the top paid coach in America and I believe that any AD, Fan Base, Booster group would easily pay a coach more than any other coach in one year if it meant a natty. Especially knowing that they would not have to pay that same amount say if the next year ended in a NY6 bowl game appearance.

I just think you could get a coach with enough ego to come with that kind of setup in terms of bonuses... I expect at some point that some school will do something like this were ESPN will do a gangbuster of a story on insane contract incentives..... If you have the cash and desperate to make a big splash hire, this is one tool to use. There are enough big fish coaches out there that have an ego and want to hold that natty trophy and be the highest paid coach in the land.
 
#85
#85
JMSqb11 said:
I still don't know why college coaching contracts haven't gone to majority performance based style. Outside of the Saban's, Dabo's, Urban's, A lot of the other coaches couldn't demand with a straight face that they deserve to be the highest paid coach in the land.

I used this model last year when we were discussing coaching hires, but lets face, every coach that isn't Saban, Dabo, or Urban have a massive ego to be the best. Sure you have a small few who are happy being complacent and collecting a check, but that isn't the norm.

I don't see why a school can't give a coach a contract with a reasonable base salary like 3-4 million and basically write incentives in their contract where if they win the natty, they get so much "bonus" money that they become the highest paid coach "for that year."

I get that coaches want to maximize their earnings in their "prime", but as long as they are good, there will always be openings. I just don't see why schools get locked into huge buyouts when they could take advantage of a coach's ego. I used two examples after Schiano Sunday and then Currie Road Show of Coaches.

At the point when he was fired, I said go with Kiffin or Les Miles with a big assistant pool of cash and make their contracts performance heavy based. Basically, win and make a lot of money in those years and so so results get you paid, but not huge amounts.

Model below:

1-Lane Kiffin at 2 Million (His FAU Salary)
2-Les Miles at 4 Million (Half a million below his LSU Salary when fired)
3-Any Coach at 4 Million salary

SEC title game appearance 500K (League Average is 100K so a 400% increase)
SEC Title another 500K (League Average is 125K so 300% increase)

Bowl Game Appearance 200K (League Average is 100K. After all this is about posting great records)
NY6 bowl game 500K (League Average for BCS/NY6 is 200K so 250% increase)
Playoff appearance 600K (Jimbo/Mullen/Pruitt are newest SEC hires and they average 280K so basically a 100% increase)
Natty Appearance 1.2 Million (Jimbo/Mullen/Pruitt average 380K for an appearance so this would be over a 300% increase)
Natty 4-5 Million (Jimbo/Mullen/Pruitt average 600K - Jimbo gets 1 Million, Mullen 300k, Pruitt 500k)

With the above, any coach who won the natty would easily be the top paid coach in America and I believe that any AD, Fan Base, Booster group would easily pay a coach more than any other coach in one year if it meant a natty. Especially knowing that they would not have to pay that same amount say if the next year ended in a NY6 bowl game appearance.

I just think you could get a coach with enough ego to come with that kind of setup in terms of bonuses... I expect at some point that some school will do something like this were ESPN will do a gangbuster of a story on insane contract incentives..... If you have the cash and desperate to make a big splash hire, this is one tool to use. There are enough big fish coaches out there that have an ego and want to hold that natty trophy and be the highest paid coach in the land.
Click to expand...
Agents are the reason that coaches contracts are the way they are written. Agents make more money when they are able to include bigger buyouts for the coaches they represent and they work very very hard to make a lot of money. They get a percentage of every penny paid tp their coaches, even the buyout when they are fired. Then they represent them when they are hired by another school. The cycle goes on and on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RollerVol
#86
#86
VOLINVONORE said:
Agents are the reason that coaches contracts are the way they are written. Agents make more money when they are able to include bigger buyouts for the coaches they represent and they work very very hard to make a lot of money. They get a percentage of every penny paid tp their coaches, even the buyout when they are fired. Then they represent them when they are hired by another school. The cycle goes on and on.
Click to expand...

Sure, but there are conversations between AD's and Coaches directly.... Agents don't sit in on every interview a coach has with an a school and AD....

The one good thing about having a Football guy like Coach Fulmer as AD is that he doesn't need to have to go thru an agent to get in contact with another coach. Mike Hamilton or more administrative AD's don't have the network like coaches do.

It would not be that hard to go around agents in terms of "contacting coaches" about vacancies. The fact these schools submit soo much to agents cracks me up.
 
#87
#87
tbones0711 said:
I don't know off the top of my head what the conditions were concerning CBJ's contract at the end of 2016 season when we just lost to Vandy. We still had a shot at the Sugar Bowl prior to that game and Jones went and hid post game dodging reporters. Hart was already gone and his replacement would eventually take 3-4 months to find,which was Currie. Bottom line at UT there wasn't anyone in the admin. capable of making sports related decisions. It was basically dysfunctional. This gave J.Haslam some pull, so to speak, but look at the dysfunctional Brown's. Someone however made the decision not to pony up the money for Jones to hire an experienced OC as DeBord was leaving. So was Dobb's and Hurd. This is according to Jones but there wasn't an AD in place at the time. IMO the result of that debacle was UT losing big time ground in 6 short months that I feel will take 3 years to recover from. A wise man would have an understudy, typically called an assistant to fill any void immediately should some unexpected incident arise that would impede the current AD's ability to make needed decisions in a timely manner.
To address cause, I can think of 3 scenarios to attempt to fire Jones over. It would be a coin toss as to any rulings coming from such but a chance to whittle the buyout and plus save Jones from public scrutiny. But the gamble would be how future coaches would perceive UT if that approach were pursued. All in all, it's a good idea to have a replacement in line that parallels the current philosophy of the direction the program wants to go in accordance with any predecessor in the Ath. Dept. Lack of a decision maker at anytime has already cost UT once. Should never happen again but who's playing 2nd fiddle to Fulmer now and is the majority on board with whomever it may be? I can't help but feel if something,(God forbid), would happen to Fulmer we'd be right back in the same chaotic position.
Click to expand...

One concept you need to embrace; To fire a coach for cause, the said cause needs to be covered in the language within his contract, not three scenarios you thought up from opinion. And as to Fulmer, I am not so sure some of the chaotic stuff wasn't caused by some of his cronies. You simpletons want to just blame the Haslams; I have come to believe this level of ineptness cannot be caused by that few people. But go ahead, have faith in him. Until proven otherwise, he isn't any smarter than he was when he got fired. I stated from the moment he got the AD job that this was a huge mistake, and am yet to see solid result based proof to the contrary. Just the usual static from his fans. I am still anticipating breaking news that we got troubles before anything that resembles championship football. And if I am proven wrong, I will take the crap for it. But not until.
 
#91
#91
wmcovol said:
Really? How many yrs would it take UT to recoup that “investment”?
Click to expand...

Now that he is retired from politics, Bill Haslam will write us a $50 million check in about 5 minutes.

He uses $1 million dollar bills to wipe his rear
 
#92
#92
JMSqb11 said:
Sure, but there are conversations between AD's and Coaches directly.... Agents don't sit in on every interview a coach has with an a school and AD....

The one good thing about having a Football guy like Coach Fulmer as AD is that he doesn't need to have to go thru an agent to get in contact with another coach. Mike Hamilton or more administrative AD's don't have the network like coaches do.

It would not be that hard to go around agents in terms of "contacting coaches" about vacancies. The fact these schools submit soo much to agents cracks me up.
Click to expand...

Contact a coach all you want but his agent will handle the contract negotiations.

As for why schools pay millions.... because if they don't someone else will if it's a desirable coach. This isn't like 25 years ago when only a small group of schools could afford to pay the big salary. Bunch of schools can throw 3 mill at a head coach now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 82_VOL_83 and RollerVol
#93
#93
Jax_Vol said:
Now that he is retired from politics, Bill Haslam will write us a $50 million check in about 5 minutes.

He uses $1 million dollar bills to wipe his rear
Click to expand...

They why don't he pay off his buddy Jones? What does UT owe warlick if they fire he? Why pay Bama $50mil to take her? They don't give a flying f*** about women's basketball.
 
#94
#94
TheDeeble said:
Contact a coach all you want but his agent will handle the contract negotiations.

As for why schools pay millions.... because if they don't someone else will if it's a desirable coach. This isn't like 25 years ago when only a small group of schools could afford to pay the big salary. Bunch of schools can throw 3 mill at a head coach now.
Click to expand...
Once again, you only need one coach to bite. Also if a coach really wants to be somewhere, an agent isn’t gonna stop them.

Coaching contracts and agents will change in the future. The current model can’t stay. Sure certain schools can afford 10-15 million buyouts but those are far and few between in terms of firing a coach and hiring a new staff.

And it only takes one coach and one school to introduce a change. You can’t say there isn’t one coach who would take a middle of the road base salary with the most expensive incentives in the game to make him the highest paid coach in a given year and then somewhere like the 6th highest paid coach in the country the next.

Jeremy Pruitt is a good example. No way he was on anyone’s radar to be head coach at a Power 5 program. Same with Mel Tucker since he and Pruitt were Fulmer’s final 2.

No way Pruitt turns down Tennessee if they said no to his agent’s demands and instead offered a big performance based contract while giving him a 3-4 million base salary.
 
#95
#95
wmcovol said:
They why don't he pay off his buddy Jones? What does UT owe warlick if they fire he? Why pay Bama $50mil to take her? They don't give a flying f*** about women's basketball.
Click to expand...

Jim Haslam is the buddy of Jones; Bill Haslam is not.

Just print off 50 of these, give them to Botch, and we will be all even.

one-million-dollar-bill-1-000-000.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: jbr82
#96
#96
JMSqb11 said:
I still don't know why college coaching contracts haven't gone to majority performance based style. Outside of the Saban's, Dabo's, Urban's, A lot of the other coaches couldn't demand with a straight face that they deserve to be the highest paid coach in the land.

I used this model last year when we were discussing coaching hires, but lets face, every coach that isn't Saban, Dabo, or Urban have a massive ego to be the best. Sure you have a small few who are happy being complacent and collecting a check, but that isn't the norm.

I don't see why a school can't give a coach a contract with a reasonable base salary like 3-4 million and basically write incentives in their contract where if they win the natty, they get so much "bonus" money that they become the highest paid coach "for that year."

I get that coaches want to maximize their earnings in their "prime", but as long as they are good, there will always be openings. I just don't see why schools get locked into huge buyouts when they could take advantage of a coach's ego. I used two examples after Schiano Sunday and then Currie Road Show of Coaches.

At the point when he was fired, I said go with Kiffin or Les Miles with a big assistant pool of cash and make their contracts performance heavy based. Basically, win and make a lot of money in those years and so so results get you paid, but not huge amounts.

Model below:

1-Lane Kiffin at 2 Million (His FAU Salary)
2-Les Miles at 4 Million (Half a million below his LSU Salary when fired)
3-Any Coach at 4 Million salary

SEC title game appearance 500K (League Average is 100K so a 400% increase)
SEC Title another 500K (League Average is 125K so 300% increase)

Bowl Game Appearance 200K (League Average is 100K. After all this is about posting great records)
NY6 bowl game 500K (League Average for BCS/NY6 is 200K so 250% increase)
Playoff appearance 600K (Jimbo/Mullen/Pruitt are newest SEC hires and they average 280K so basically a 100% increase)
Natty Appearance 1.2 Million (Jimbo/Mullen/Pruitt average 380K for an appearance so this would be over a 300% increase)
Natty 4-5 Million (Jimbo/Mullen/Pruitt average 600K - Jimbo gets 1 Million, Mullen 300k, Pruitt 500k)

With the above, any coach who won the natty would easily be the top paid coach in America and I believe that any AD, Fan Base, Booster group would easily pay a coach more than any other coach in one year if it meant a natty. Especially knowing that they would not have to pay that same amount say if the next year ended in a NY6 bowl game appearance.

I just think you could get a coach with enough ego to come with that kind of setup in terms of bonuses... I expect at some point that some school will do something like this were ESPN will do a gangbuster of a story on insane contract incentives..... If you have the cash and desperate to make a big splash hire, this is one tool to use. There are enough big fish coaches out there that have an ego and want to hold that natty trophy and be the highest paid coach in the land.
Click to expand...
You go that route and try to hire a candidate any other school wants? You basically handed him to them.
 
#98
#98
butchna said:
You go that route and try to hire a candidate any other school wants? You basically handed him to them.
Click to expand...

So Pruitt was being sought after by other schools in the SEC or Power 5 big programs?

Like I said, the days of high buyouts (through agents) won’t last. Every year it gets closer to the win now mindset and the hire and fire every 3 years. That’s not sustainable for programs. Especially if it happens in multiple sports.

All you need is one coach who you want and tell them this is the contract we (the AD and school) are gonna offer. Considering Pruitt didn’t have any other head coaching offers, you think he’s turning us down because the base is only a couple of million while the performance incentives are the highest in college football history ever?

It’s also hilarious that you say a coach would turn us down for another job because of the same reason.

The people who say that we have keep doing something because that’s how it’s always been kill me. We literally broke that line of thinking on Schiano Sunday and are in a better place.
 
#99
#99
I don't know how UT couldn't justify firing Currie with cause so they didn't have to pay him a dime.
 
#100
#100
VOLINVONORE said:
SEXTON is the reason that coaches contracts are the way they are written. Agents make more money when they are able to include bigger buyouts for the coaches they represent and they work very very hard to make a lot of money. They get a percentage of every penny paid tp their coaches, even the buyout when they are fired. Then they represent them when they are hired by another school. The cycle goes on and on.
Click to expand...
This is just crazy talk.. There are no AgentS, only agent=Sexton. On a serious note agents do not like/recommend performance laden contracts for their clients and will recommend the "sure money" even if they leave some on table.
I was gonna fix your whole post but all that Plural to singular changes meant too much work and I am lazy:).
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement



Back
Top