Phil Bennett endorses Frank Cignetti Jr. for OC job

#51
#51
allen phillips said:
I am not sure speed is the first priority in hiring an OC. I think that when the job is done is when praise or blame should begin.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, I agree that quality should be our aim. I am frustrated and a little jaded by all of the media scrutiny that we were subject to. But I suppose that resulted well, at least in my opinion with the hire of CJP. So hopefully between him and CPF they will land a solid OC.
 
#52
#52
MikeVol44 said:
There, I fixed your post.

Nothing worse than a bunch of message board dipsticks griping and complaining about how much time it's taking to hire an OC....when so many on here know so very little about what's really going on behind the scenes....just like when Fulmer hired CJP.

I'm sure when the new OC is announced that there will be no less than 10 threads started saying what a stupid hire it was.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the correction. I misspoke and agree that it is VOLNATION that looks silly. I am one of those who does not know the enter workings of the hiring process of a major college program. I guess I misunderstood this forum as sort of valve by which I could relieve the pressure that I have built from various forms of disappointment over the last decade or so as a die-hard vol fan and also find like-minded individuals that may or may not be experts in various college football subjects. I am surprised that someone of your stature and knowledge is on this message board, as I am sure that with the level of expertise that you imply that you have you must be employed at a high level university yourself which must demand a great deal of your time and effort at this juncture in the post season. Thank you for the education, and I will attempt the contain my "dip stick" opinion to a forum designed more for individuals sharing my more rudimentary understanding of the sport.
 
#53
#53
GBOVFL88 said:
Thanks for the correction. I misspoke and agree that it is VOLNATION that looks silly. I am one of those who does not know the enter workings of the hiring process of a major college program. I guess I misunderstood this forum as sort of valve by which I could relieve the pressure that I have built from various forms of disappointment over the last decade or so as a die-hard vol fan and also find like-minded individuals that may or may not be experts in various college football subjects. I am surprised that someone of your stature and knowledge is on this message board, as I am sure that with the level of expertise that you imply that you have you must be employed at a high level university yourself which must demand a great deal of your time and effortThis had gotten so old, and highlighted a problem with our administration and their ability to be decisive about hiring for key coaching positions. Makes our program look sloppy TBH. I know that there are some schools of thought that this is to keep the attention on recruiting as the priority, but it still makes us look silly.at this juncture in the post season. Thank you for the education, and I will attempt the contain my "dip stick" opinion to a forum designed more for individuals sharing my more rudimentary understanding of the sport.
Click to expand...

I do apologize for seeming to single you out amongst all of the drivel posted on here about our current quest to hire a new OC....but it seemed appropriate at the time. Your viewpoint summarized-for me--all of the worthless drivel posted on here about the OC vacancy. The desire for instant gratification among our culture is suffocating, and is TBH--embarrassing and childish. Thank God that our Coaches and AD are more mature than most.

And somewhere along the way you have forgotten what you posted as a definitive opinion. Therefore, let me remind you of your own words:

"...This had gotten so old, and highlighted a problem with our administration and their ability to be decisive about hiring for key coaching positions. Makes our program look sloppy TBH. I know that there are some schools of thought that this is to keep the attention on recruiting as the priority, but it still makes us look silly."

The insinuation from these words and your last "blue font" post is that your opinion is the only one that matters, and that anyone who even remotely opposes your view must experience condescending and belittling sarcasm. I know because I've been guilty of doing the same thing. And later realized that I acted like a true idiot.

I don't know squat about what process our coaches are taking to fill the OC vacancy any more than I was aware of the process that AD Fulmer took to hire our HC until he announced his choice of CJP. And honestly, I don't have to know. I can patiently wait in confidence in those men whose actual careers and professional reputations are at stake. In the end, there's nothing more to do as a fan.

If you have some inside information or basis for making your statements about how the administration and coaches are being incompetent or sloppy in their process--why don't you share it with us?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: illvol
#55
#55
MikeVol44 said:
I do apologize for seeming to single you out amongst all of the drivel posted on here about our current quest to hire a new OC....but it seemed appropriate at the time. Your viewpoint summarized-for me--all of the worthless drivel posted on here about the OC vacancy. The desire for instant gratification among our culture is suffocating, and is TBH--embarrassing and childish. Thank God that our Coaches and AD are not more mature than most.

And somewhere along the way you have forgotten what you posted as a definitive opinion. Therefore, let me remind you of your own words:

"...This had gotten so old, and highlighted a problem with our administration and their ability to be decisive about hiring for key coaching positions. Makes our program look sloppy TBH. I know that there are some schools of thought that this is to keep the attention on recruiting as the priority, but it still makes us look silly."

The insinuation from these words and your last "blue font" post is that your opinion is the only one that matters, and that anyone who even remotely opposes your view must experience condescending and belittling sarcasm. I know because I've been guilty of doing the same thing. And later realized that I acted like a true idiot.

I don't know squat about what process our coaches are taking to fill the OC vacancy any more than I was aware of the process that AD Fulmer took to hire our HC until he announced his choice of CJP. And honestly, I don't have to know. I can patiently wait in confidence in those men whose actual careers and professional reputations are at stake. In the end, there's nothing more to do as a fan.

If you have some inside information or basis for making your statements about how the administration and coaches are being incompetent or sloppy in their process--why don't you share it with us?
Click to expand...
Astute observation on your part in that I did make a definitive OPINION. That was exactly how it was intended to have been perceived. I did not post it as a matter of fact, but rather I made an opinion based statement. If I had presented my comments in a way that suggested that I have some form of information that meant that my opinion should somehow be held in higher regard than someone else I may have indicated that all other opinions are inferior. Again, that was not the case neither was is implied. It was simply a statement of fact based on my observation and position on the current coaching search.

While it is not my intent or desire to imply that anyone else's opinion is inferior to my own, my posts are either based on opinion or fact. I welcome debate especially when I present facts as a part of a post. Those are always subject to being fact checked and rebutted if found inaccurate. I enthusiastically support candid posts whether or not we agree.

I will end by saying that I appreciate your responses. We may not agree, but this is exactly why we have a forum for these discussions. I hope that moving forward we continue to have discussions whether in agreement or opposition. I have learned from our exchange and thank you for the debate and classy disagreement between us (maybe minus the blue font). In the future I may reserve the use of blue font for humor as opposed to my most recent use. As always, Go Vols!!
 
#56
#56
GBOVFL88 said:
Astute observation on your part in that I did make a definitive OPINION. That was exactly how it was intended to have been perceived. I did not post it as a matter of fact, but rather I made an opinion based statement. If I had presented my comments in a way that suggested that I have some form of information that meant that my opinion should somehow be held in higher regard than someone else I may have indicated that all other opinions are inferior. Again, that was not the case neither was is implied. It was simply a statement of fact based on my observation and position on the current coaching search.

While it is not my intent or desire to imply that anyone else's opinion is inferior to my own, my posts are either based on opinion or fact. I welcome debate especially when I present facts as a part of a post. Those are always subject to being fact checked and rebutted if found inaccurate. I enthusiastically support candid posts whether or not we agree.

I will end by saying that I appreciate your responses. We may not agree, but this is exactly why we have a forum for these discussions. I hope that moving forward we continue to have discussions whether in agreement or opposition. I have learned from our exchange and thank you for the debate and classy disagreement between us (maybe minus the blue font). In the future I may reserve the use of blue font for humor as opposed to my most recent use. As always, Go Vols!!
Click to expand...

Fair enough...

I am confident that they will make a good hire. I don't see them hiring a guy who will throw it all over the place because CJP has repeatedly said that "...you cannot win in football at any level if you can't run the ball..."

We want the same things....GO VOLS!
 
#57
#57
MikeVol44 said:
Fair enough...

I am confident that they will make a good hire. I don't see them hiring a guy who will throw it all over the place because CJP has repeatedly said that "...you cannot win in football at any level if you can't run the ball..."

We want the same things....GO VOLS!
Click to expand...
I am hoping that he hires someone who is creative and aggressive. I don't think we can win at the highest level just throwing the ball (see air raid offenses). But we don't have the line as of yet to be a run dominant offense. I think the way forward may be more fruitful if we use a good combination of using the run to open up the pass game. Hopefully we can develop the o-line enough over the next season or so to assert our will and be physical enough to run more affectively. I just don't see us being big or strong enough to run as much as CJP would like next season. Any ideas on a coach that can balance our offense enough to win more games with a young o-line?
 
#59
#59
GBOVFL88 said:
I am hoping that he hires someone who is creative and aggressive. I don't think we can win at the highest level just throwing the ball (see air raid offenses). But we don't have the line as of yet to be a run dominant offense. I think the way forward may be more fruitful if we use a good combination of using the run to open up the pass game. Hopefully we can develop the o-line enough over the next season or so to assert our will and be physical enough to run more affectively. I just don't see us being big or strong enough to run as much as CJP would like next season. Any ideas on a coach that can balance our offense enough to win more games with a young o-line?
Click to expand...

I honestly have no clue...
 
#60
#60
It's astounding to me that anyone, at this juncture in the proud history of the University of Tennessee football program, could even type the words that the UTAD is unquestionably competent, conscientious, and beyond reproach such that fans, i.e. those that actually foot the bill for the whole endeavor, have no room to question said AD. This is every bit as valid and intellectually sound as when tobacco companies used to insist that their product didn't cause cancer.

A surgeon who saves lives gains credibility and a reputation for excellence. A surgeon who repeatedly accidentally kills people in the E.R., even though he has an M.D. and went to med school, is not looked upon as a towering expert in medicine and above reproach sheerly because he has training in the field.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OneVolNation
#61
#61
lifeisdeep said:
It's astounding to me that anyone, at this juncture in the proud history of the University of Tennessee football program, could even type the words that the UTAD is unquestionably competent, conscientious, and beyond reproach such that fans, i.e. those that actually foot the bill for the whole endeavor, have no room to question said AD. This is every bit as valid and intellectually sound as when tobacco companies used to insist that their product didn't cause cancer.

A surgeon who saves lives gains credibility and a reputation for excellence. A surgeon who repeatedly accidentally kills people in the E.R., even though he has an M.D. and went to med school, is not looked upon as a towering expert in medicine and above reproach sheerly because he has training in the field.
Click to expand...

Yes, the disparaging and often equally flippant remarks levied at the best fan base in college football are major strikes against the credibility of anyone who would perpetuate such animosity while being associated with the Administration for obvious reasons. In view of that, one would hope such condescension is not indicative of one in that delegation, but rather just the rumblings of a fan who expects those beholden to the fans, school, state, and public at large to keep them in the dark until finally, there's no more dark to hide the incompetence and heads must roll as both the first and last competent act of public accountability. It's sad, really. One could say the Admin is always accountable because of how fast they fire the numerous people in positions who execute their decisions once results of those decisions can no longer be hidden from public view. If the voice of ticket buyers and donors aren't worth hearing, then prove it by refunding all contributions and revenue from ticket sales. If it is worth hearing, then perhaps there may be a new platform for an agreeably and provably fair dialog between those of us with the money and those others who are investing it in results which must be considered suboptimal without the ethical minimum level of transparency required for fans to be assured no such shenanigans are supported as routine. Until that necessary communication is made available, then one party will only have the track record of the other party's to review as an indicator of what is hidden from assessment. Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us twice, shame on us. Fool us ten years running and ask for blind trust it's not still happening, and the full weight of the meaning of "...but you can't fool all the people all the time" may prove too heavy a burden on the back to allow the foolishness to continue. Perhaps that time approaches nearer now than a time too late to ignore.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lifeisdeep
#62
#62
lifeisdeep said:
It's astounding to me that anyone, at this juncture in the proud history of the University of Tennessee football program, could even type the words that the UTAD is unquestionably competent, conscientious, and beyond reproach such that fans, i.e. those that actually foot the bill for the whole endeavor, have no room to question said AD. This is every bit as valid and intellectually sound as when tobacco companies used to insist that their product didn't cause cancer.

A surgeon who saves lives gains credibility and a reputation for excellence. A surgeon who repeatedly accidentally kills people in the E.R., even though he has an M.D. and went to med school, is not looked upon as a towering expert in medicine and above reproach sheerly because he has training in the field.
Click to expand...

Strawman much? Your post is about as discerning and intellectually sound as a hammer. You, sir, remind me of the line in that Eagles song: "...you can see the stars but still can't see the light..." In other words, just because you know the alphabet doesn't mean you have the intelligence to speak French.

Nowhere in any of my posts have I even remotely insinuated that AD Fulmer or any of our coaches are UNQUESTIONABLY competent. Nor did I say that we fans don't have a right to question their decisions. It appears that reading with comprehension and understanding is beyond your own competency.

Ultimately, your last post wreaks of the stench of a culture saturated with a "consumer" mentality. You think it's your right to know everything just because you buy a ticket. Well, sir, let me tell you that neither you, I, or anyone else who buys a ticket earns the right to know everything about the football program and the processes required to make it successful. It's just incredibly STUPID to think so.

Ultimately, my POINT is that no announcement of any final decision has been made to this date. So--there is NOTHING TO EVALUATE concerning the competency of those actually involved in the process. To wit--how can anyone at this point intelligently question a decision that has yet to be made known to the general public--i.e. entitled fanbase??!!

Won't you at least wait until they HIRE the new OC before you begin your litany of criticisms concerning their competency?
 
  • Like
Reactions: illvol
#64
#64
GBOVFL88 said:
I am hoping that he hires someone who is creative and aggressive. I don't think we can win at the highest level just throwing the ball (see air raid offenses). But we don't have the line as of yet to be a run dominant offense. I think the way forward may be more fruitful if we use a good combination of using the run to open up the pass game. Hopefully we can develop the o-line enough over the next season or so to assert our will and be physical enough to run more affectively. I just don't see us being big or strong enough to run as much as CJP would like next season. Any ideas on a coach that can balance our offense enough to win more games with a young o-line?
Click to expand...
Sounds like a Friend and Osovelt team up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GBOVFL88
#65
#65
MikeVol44 said:
Strawman much? Your post is about as discerning and intellectually sound as a hammer. You, sir, remind me of the line in that Eagles song: "...you can see the stars but still can't see the light..." In other words, just because you know the alphabet doesn't mean you have the intelligence to speak French.

Nowhere in any of my posts have I even remotely insinuated that AD Fulmer or any of our coaches are UNQUESTIONABLY competent. Nor did I say that we fans don't have a right to question their decisions. It appears that reading with comprehension and understanding is beyond your own competency.

Ultimately, your last post wreaks of the stench of a culture saturated with a "consumer" mentality. You think it's your right to know everything just because you buy a ticket. Well, sir, let me tell you that neither you, I, or anyone else who buys a ticket earns the right to know everything about the football program and the processes required to make it successful. It's just incredibly STUPID to think so.

Ultimately, my POINT is that no announcement of any final decision has been made to this date. So--there is NOTHING TO EVALUATE concerning the competency of those actually involved in the process. To wit--how can anyone at this point intelligently question a decision that has yet to be made known to the general public--i.e. entitled fanbase??!!

Won't you at least wait until they HIRE the new OC before you begin your litany of criticisms concerning their competency?
Click to expand...
So how long have you been employed by the UTAD?

This is pretty simple: you made a poor argument; I eviscerated it; then you resorted to ad hominem because you knew you couldn't win with actual logic or anything remotely resembling common sense.

I'll break it down further for you, since you clearly don't have the mental ability to process much: Not a few, but the vast majority, of all the football hires this athletic department has made in the last twelve years, head coach or coordinator, have been slightly to wildly incompetent. See if you can grasp this complicated concept: when a person, even one who is trained in a particular field and paid as an expert in said field, fails repeatedly and spectacularly with the most important tasks of his job, by definition that person is considered incompetent. When somehow that person manages to keep his job despite a pattern of incompetence, it does not suddenly mean that he has become competent; it merely means there is a problem somewhere.

If there is a group of several people who have been failing spectacularly, and two of those people are replaced, and one of the replacements is a person who ten years earlier was fired for poor performance, anyone who does not question the competence and fitness of the group when a new, very important task arises and proceeds in the same manner as dozens of instances of incompetence over the past twelve years, is either not very bright, or is himself a part of that group pretending otherwise, and therefore inherently dishonest and not to be trusted.

You stated in no uncertain terms that we as fans have no right to question anything about the OC search because we aren't inside the UTAD. Now you're backtracking by trying to claim you didn't say we had no right to question; now you try to shift your argument to the equally flimsy assertion that just because no announcement has yet been made, somehow there's no indication at all that anything is amiss. I suppose you think the several professional journalists who have reported on all the candidates we either whiffed or passed on just made it all up? I suppose in your world all coordinators are equal and Kendall Briles is no more qualified or desirable than Dave Clawsen, and we should just shut up and fork over our money regardless of who is hired or whether we ever get back to winning?
 
Last edited:
#67
#67
how about Pruitt hire this guy as the OC ?

coach-klein.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: rocytop2624
#69
#69
lifeisdeep said:
So how long have you been employed by the UTAD?

This is pretty simple: you made a poor argument; I eviscerated it; then you resorted to ad hominem because you knew you couldn't win with actual logic or anything remotely resembling common sense.

I'll break it down further for you, since you clearly don't have the mental ability to process much: Not a few, but the vast majority, of all the football hires this athletic department has made in the last twelve years, head coach or coordinator, have been slightly to wildly incompetent. See if you can grasp this complicated concept: when a person, even one who is trained in a particular field and paid as an expert in said field, fails repeatedly and spectacularly with the most important tasks of his job, by definition that person is considered incompetent. When somehow that person manages to keep his job despite a pattern of incompetence, it does not suddenly mean that he has become competent; it merely means there is a problem somewhere.

If there is a group of several people who have been failing spectacularly, and two of those people are replaced, and one of the replacements is a person who ten years earlier was fired for poor performance, anyone who does not question the competence and fitness of the group when a new, very important task arises and proceeds in the same manner as dozens of instances of incompetence over the past twelve years, is either not very bright, or is himself a part of that group pretending otherwise, and therefore inherently dishonest and not to be trusted.

You stated in no uncertain terms that we as fans have no right to question anything about the OC search because we aren't inside the UTAD. Now you're backtracking by trying to claim you didn't say we had no right to question; now you try to shift your argument to the equally flimsy assertion that just because no announcement has yet been made, somehow there's no indication at all that anything is amiss. I suppose you think the several professional journalists who have reported on all the candidates we either whiffed or passed on just made it all up? I suppose in your world all coordinators are equal and Kendall Briles is no more qualified or desirable than Dave Clawsen, and we should just shut up and fork over our money regardless of who is hired or whether we ever get back to winning?
Click to expand...

Well, sir--I would only ask that you go back and actually READ the response I posted to GBOVFL88.

He posted that our administration and football program--and I'm summarizing his adjectives here--appeared to be indecisive, sloppy, and silly because no OC has been hired to date. So it seems that his chief complaint is that it is taking too long to hire a new OC.

I took issue with that opinion and made the following statements:

"I don't know squat about what process our coaches are taking to fill the OC vacancy any more than I was aware of the process that AD Fulmer took to hire our HC until he announced his choice of CJP. And honestly, I don't have to know. I can patiently wait in confidence in those men whose actual careers and professional reputations are at stake. In the end, there's nothing more to do as a fan."

I assume your initial response was in regard to those statements of mine. You said:

"It's astounding to me that anyone, at this juncture in the proud history of the University of Tennessee football program, could even type the words that the UTAD is unquestionably competent, conscientious, and beyond reproach such that fans, i.e. those that actually foot the bill for the whole endeavor, have no room to question said AD"

This assessment of my statements is incorrect.
You made an extreme and irrational effort to torture and distort my words into the statements you typed--quoted, italicized, and underlined above--in accordance with your own presuppositions of those in authority.
You either ignorantly or intentionally made inaccurate and untrue statements to misrepresent what I said. But you didn't stop there. You pressed on with your own ad hominem attack by stating:

" This is every bit as valid and intellectually sound as when tobacco companies used to insist that their product didn't cause cancer."

Forgive me if I misconstrued your insinuation here, but it clearly communicates that you think I have no reasonable intellectual ability to use the actual facts to construct a rational conclusion.
How is that not a personal insult?

So let me help you correctly understand what I meant in my initial response to GBOVFL88.

1. I know nothing about hiring an OC for an elite program in the SEC. I've never been in the position with such a responsibility. In fact, I've never coached FB in the SEC even as a grad assistant. And I'm assuming that over 95% of the posters on this site have never been in that position either!

2. I didn't know what criteria AD Fulmer constructed to determine who to hire as our next HC before he hired CJP. But I am please with having CJP as our coach--even when I was completely ignorant of the process Fulmer used to select him.

3. AD Fulmer did not have to disclose his process to me in order for me to confident in his ability to hire a coach. I was extremely RELIEVED that an experienced FOOTBALL man was now going to make the decision.

Is this just blind and irrational trust in AD Fulmer?
Why am I confident in CJP and AD Fulmer?
Because between them they have over 60+ years of experience in the SEC as players, coaches, Coordinators, and Head Coaches--with 5 NC between them.
Therefore, they have proven their ability to succeed on the highest level of competition in the SEC.

4. I have no reasonable qualifications to make intelligent suggestions to help CJP or AD Fulmer accurately assess the qualifications necessary for our next OC.

Therefore, I believe that it is intelligent and reasonable for me to patiently wait--with confidence--on those men who are qualified to make an informed decision in hiring our next OC.

And we won't have sufficient data to make an intelligent evaluation of their eventual choice until AFTER next season is finished.

Now--please explain to me how these thoughts translate into a BLIND, UNQUESTIONABLE, UNREASONABLE, and intellectually UNSOUND trust in CJP and AD Fulmer?
 
#71
#71
It's funny that you chose to quote a post you made subsequently to the one I was responding to, and specifically a post that was far less critical of other posters on here who dared to question the hiring process. Here is the post of yours I was responding to:
MikeVol44 said:
There, I fixed your post.

Nothing worse than a bunch of message board dipsticks griping and complaining about how much time it's taking to hire an OC....when so many on here know so very little about what's really going on behind the scenes....just like when Fulmer hired CJP.

I'm sure when the new OC is announced that there will be no less than 10 threads started saying what a stupid hire it was.
Click to expand...

So you are saying, pretty unmistakably, that anyone who doesn't blindly accept how the OC hiring process is proceeding is a "dipstick."

Your most recent post above, by the way, does nothing more than belabor that same feckless argument. I already shredded your argument but somehow you think repeating it enough times will make it valid. It doesn't.

I think it would help your debating skills to acquaint yourself with analogy and ad hominem. People used to learn these concepts from books but if you take a few minutes on Google you should be able to get a basic familiarity with them.

I have never been a chef, but when I dine at a restaurant where the food tastes bad, I am still able to reasonably conclude that the head chef is not good at what he does. I have never been a mechanic, but when I take my car multiple times to the same shop and they can never find the problem, and then another shop a mile down the road can fix it every time, I know that the first shop does not have good mechanics.

I can promise you that there are more than a couple people on this forum who have never been administrators of an athletic department but nonetheless could do a better job with an OC search than what has been done with this one. It's about having some common sense and giving enough of a damn about the results to do what it takes to get the right ones.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement



Back
Top